Sora Vs. Arthur Penhaligon

[Bobsican]

I can't believe I'm the first one doing this.

Both at tier 4, speed equalized, Arthur has all the keys but the first one (so he doesn't jump to 2-A)

The Keyblade Wielder: 0

The Key-using Kid: 7 (Schnee One, Monarch Laciel, Okorito1, Soupywolf5, Tonny di bugalu, DragonEmperor23, Edwardtruong2006)

Incon: 0

 

[Okorito1]

Which Arthur key is it? Immortal or base? as both can go to 4-B


Either way if Arthur has the Key's he stomps

 

[Bobsican]

The second key.

And no, Sora has the conceptual attacks to keep up.

 

[Okorito1]

Just saying the second key doesn't really help, but even with just one arthur has far more hax, arthur could simply petrify him, or even hit him with the key, Sora's magic is useless as the key's have direct magic nullification, merely TOUCHING a key will disintegrate you aswell

 

[Bobsican]

Sora also has power null, then again, so he can power null that.

It also appears to be quite limited anyways, so I wouldn't count on that nulling all sorts of magic.

 

[Okorito1]

Sora also has power null, then again, so he can power null that.
It also appears to be quite limited anyways, so I wouldn't count on that nulling all sorts of magic.

I'm fairly sure Sora's powernull is magic based, whereas Arthurs is from extremely potent haxed keys, one beats out the other, you can't powernull something of a much higher tier, and The key specifically powernulls all magic around it, even in progress magic, i read the book and it scales way over 100 meter's im fairly sure (need that checked, i just know it's further then Sora's)

 

[Bobsican]

SBA puts them at 4Km in distance, and Sora has the range to ignore that.

And the power null is Law Manip based, but that's kept for another CRT.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Why does he only have the second Key? Didn't we work out on discord he had everything except the first?

 

[Bobsican]

Oh no, I meant the second key on the profile, not him only holding the 2nd key, lol.

Yeah, as we discussed, he has all but the first key to avoid 2-Amping.

 

[Okorito1]

Oh no, I meant the second key on the profile, not him only holding the 2nd key, lol.
Yeah, as we discussed, he has all but the first key to avoid 2-Amping.

OH OK, my bad, immortal arthur, for the most part, i still think Arthur takes this due to generally more hax, it more depends if Sora can actually beat arthur without him getting in range, which i think Arthur can teleport to using 5th key and a mirror, so i think it's just a matter of Arthur outhaxing Sora, plus Arthur could most likely create several beings through nothing if he must if i'm correct

 

[Bobsican]

Sora can do the exact same too (Except he doesn't need a mirror...)

He can not only just summon a thunder above him, but also stop time (which his resistance likely covers, however), Warp (ranged EE), teleport behind him and attack by surprise (also triggering time stop in the process), etc.

Like, this is one of those matches where everything depends on who hits who first.

 

[Okorito1]

Sora can do the exact same too (Except he doesn't need a mirror...)
He can not only just summon a thunder above him, but also stop time (which his resistance likely covers, however), Warp (ranged EE), teleport behind him and attack by surprise (also triggering time stop in the process), etc.

Like, this is one of those matches where everything depends on who hits who first.

How does arthur's BFR scale to this? Cause im pretty sure he can use it here, plus im fairly sure Sora has very short teleports whereas Arthur's is anywhere he's been that he can vizualise

 

[Bobsican]

Sora has planetary range, he can just use Flowmotion or cast Teleport to do so quickly.

And what do you mean by BFR scaling? If it's what I think you mean, that's totally up to debate.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

EE should be pretty heavily resisted by this point considering even one Key would have allowed Arthur to survive for a time within the Void of Nothing.

Like I said on Discord, Arthur's Keys will act to protect him automatically from anything that could be perceived as an attack (including various hax) unless he is actively controlling them not to. One will end up blocking Sora's attacks automatically, probably be destroyed cuz of concept killing or whatever, and then Sora is gone.

 

[Bobsican]

It can't really block something like Thunder, also a ton of possible homing danmakus (Some of which even spawn right where the target is), then again.

There's eve some other techniques that just can't really just be dodged with the high area of effect and others that just spaw slahes on the target.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Keys can't block a lightning bolt coming down from above? Sure it can. Also, those homing danmakus clearly show portals opening around the enemy, which can be easily blocked by Keys creating forcefields - or just closing the portals before the attack passes through it, telekinetically pushing the attacks aside, and a variety of other abilities which they can and will use to protect their wielder..

Keys can also straight up kill Sora before he even gets the attack off like it did to A) a commissioner, B) a New Nith, and C) would have done to Scamadrous if Arthur hadn't been stopping the Keys.

Every one of those techniques you linked requires Sora to make some large bodily action, which the Keys can easily shut down before he makes the movement. Assuming they even need to defend, considering all Arthur has to do is say "Return to Nothing" and Sora is gone. Even with speed equalised, speaking is faster than swinging a big sword around / thrusting hands into portals / etc and so will happen sooner.

 

[Bobsican]

Note how everything else than Sora moves slowly, meaning that the motion is actually quite faster in real time, they also ignore barriers, BTW.

And Thunder doesn't even need to do as many actions either, it only requires a quick sword gesture.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I don't see any difference in the enemy's speed betwen them moving when he's activating the ability and when he isn't. You're also going to need to provide some pretty hefty proof to show they can ignore barriers in the 4-B range too. Assuming that forcefields are even what is created to protect him instead of the Keys using anything else they could. Also, speed is still equalised so even if the game is slowing everything down when he launches the attacks for cinematic effect, that's not applicable here because he is still going to move at the same speed as Arthur.

That's still taking a longer time than a few words in speed equal.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Also, when you linked those videos, you helpfully left out the time he needed to charge up / lock on before using the attack. Equally, it strikes me that it would be difficult for Sora to see and lock on to an enemy 4km away across NYC, while Arthur has no such restriction on needing to see whatever he's targetting when he can just say "Return Sora to Nothing" and it'll hit him.

So I stand by what I said about Arthur's speak three words attack hitting before Sora's lock-on -> make big movement attack

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it comes to reaction speed, even those comparable to him perceive it faster, I skipped the charge time to go to the point, sorry if that was too much.

And yeah, it ain't doing much to 4-B stuff.

Anyways, to be sure, Arthur leads with the thre words? Either way, Sora's information analysis will tell him about how dangerous Arthur can be, so he'll likely lead with something fast like Thunder or the other stuff above.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

In almost every case that Arthur was actually trying to kill something with a Key and not trying to hide his powers to conceal his identity for other reasons, his go-to kill move has been telling it to "Return to Nothing / the Void". The exceptions were when he wasn't about to start fighting until the enemies were already in melee and attacking him, and the Key he was holding was in the shape of a sword so he just went with that, and when a insect alien blasted him with a laser and he was holding a light manipulating mirror so he blasted it with a laser back. Here he'll just use the Seventh Key cuz it's the strongest, and it being a literal golden key about the size of a pinky finger joint, isn't something you shoot projectiles from or hit the enemy with.

 

[Bobsican]

Mmm... thanks to the Information Analysis at least Sora will lead with the best stuff for this situation to keep up accordingly.

What can't the Keys easily block?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Information Analysis via Scan?

https://www.khwiki.com/Sca

I don't think Sora seeing Arthur's HP (or "fighting strength" as our page puts it) is going to help him decide what ability to use.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, Sora also has the ability to see what technique the opponent is going to use before it's actually performed (CoM mechanic), allowing for him to quickly power null it with a card.

 

[Okorito1]

Well, Sora also has the ability to see what technique the opponent is going to use before it's actually performed (CoM mechanic), allowing for him to quickly power null it with a card.

I'm not sure we can count that as precog or anything, that seems far more like just a game feature, considering CoM is a partially turn based card game.

 

[Bobsican]

Not really, there's even a move a boss in the game can do that prevents his cards from being seen.

Such ability even has a name and all, so it's not a game mechanic.

 

[Okorito1]

His page doesn't show anything related to it, so i dont think it can be applied here

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Having a name doesn't prevent something from being game mechanics (looks at the entirety of Yu-Gi-Oh)

 

[Bobsican]

It being actually used as such from a boss makes it less of a game mechanic.

I mean, Sora has a resistance to Information Analysis because he can also get that same card, so you would need a CRT to remove that from being something affecting the match.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I don't think it would work anyway.

Arthur has a Record. A Record is the physical embodiment of someone's past, present and future. Read it, you know everything they've done, everything they are doing, and everything they are going to do. Alter it, you can alter that person's past, present and future.

Arthur's Record is blank.

 

[Bobsican]

It's not precog, it's information analysis, they are different, so it can work here as it's not reliant on whatever the future in particular is going to be.

 

[Okorito1]

It's not precog, it's information analysis, they are different, so it can work here as it's not reliant on whatever the future in particular is going to be.

im like

90% sure information analysis only shows abilities they have, not which one they'll use, and even if it does, that could once again be chalked up at a game mechanic as its litterally a card game

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Why would seeing what someone is about to do in the form of a card over their head be Information Analysis instead of Precog?

 

[Okorito1]

Why would seeing what someone is about to do in the form of a card over their head be Information Analysis instead of Precog?

That's honestly what im confused about, its information analysis on his page, not precog

 

[Bobsican]

Well, it basically shows up what move the opponent is performing, however, the target has to start the move so it can be seen, meaning that it's hardly useful now that I think about it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's also kinda hard to see what's over someone's head when they are 4km and several layers of thick trees, hills and possibly buildings away from each other in Central Park NYC

 

[Schnee_One]

Considering the size of Central Park both of these two will be in different areas of the city, Sora isn't seeing him

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, then it's useful here a bit as distance is not relevant, as Sora has planetary range, after all.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No, it is relevant.

Sora needs to actually see his opponent to aim his abilities at them, to Scan them, to see what card is popping up over their head, regardless of his planetary range. But thanks to them being positioned in NYC 4km apart with various obstacles between them, he can't see Arthur without moving.

 

[Bobsican]

Neither can Arthur until Sora can too, I guess?