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Sonic VS Lavos

I think a lot of this would need some ballpark estimates. Do you think Executor would know more about this stuff?
 
@Shadow I did, but that's a light effect.

If it were a bunch of green emeralds they would have drawn emeralds falling instead of ice, kind of like what they did when there were a bunch of them of various colors in that other situation above.
 
@Shake He likely would. IIRC he's even the one who made the blogposts so he would probs know best.
 
FateAlbane said:
@Shadow I did, but that's a light effect.

If it were a bunch of green emeralds they would have drawn emeralds falling instead of ice, kind of like what they did when there were a bunch of them of various colors in that other situation above.
Click to expand...
There's also this, so it wasn't just one.

D0A356D7-480C-4229-B13F-4581AA7A5A26
 
Ye and thanks, that one does it - there's definitely much more of them in this situation as well (although the situation here shows them being used by different people over the course of time, there are two panels which show more than one). How many exactly is not for me to argue since I'm not familiar with Sonic's history, though.
 
I've asked him to shed some light on their AP a little, so I guess it's just time to see how he responds. He could know something that's flown over all of our heads.
 
@Fate To be honest, I think the best we could do is try and estimate. There's never a specific number in Great Harmony, there's all that business with Illumina/Maginaryworld, etc. etc. It's kinda complicated.
 
I actually agree with you that it's best to check out on what Executor will say for the timebeing.
 
As soon as he responds, I'll copy-paste it onto the thread. I didn't really ask him to drop by here, I just told him I was looking for an answer as to not bother him too much.
 
Wait, I found him say this on an old thread.

Executor N0 said:
To be fair the main motive about this is because 14 Chaos Emerald is already powerfull enough to destroy the whole Multiverse and recreate it. For what Mogul says, when Chaos Emerald joins forces the result is much bigger than a single addition.

The Chaos Emerald powers is used in relation of what is need. If 12 Emeralds are used to make a Island fly, then the 12 Emerald will join forces and use a energy for this. Since they have infinite power, then they can produce this energy forever without any reduction. But if 11 of the emerald are removed from the feat, then the single last emerald will produce more energy and do everything in his own, because every emerald have infinite power.

The original idea was "The more Chaos Emerald you have, more inifinites you have". And mogul says that two emeralds already are more than 1000 times stronger than a single emerald.

Anyway, you can say that this don't make any sense. And in fact, for some people this don't make any sense. "How can be more than one infinite ?", "How Infinite + Infintie = 1000 * Infinite ?" and things like that.


After the Ken Penders run, Ian Flynn fused a lot of Chaos Emerald and a sigle Chaos Emerald is made of more than billions of the old ones. Anyway, Flynn don't use the old Penders powerscalling of the emeralds.

Now the Emeralds are just a avatar of the Chaos Force, so the Emerald simply project energy from the Chaos Force and gain more emeralds simply means that you can use more energy from the Chaos Force at once. So, more Chaos Emerald simply means that if you can use a Chaos Emerald and use X of energy, then with 2 you can use more than X energy. But this only goes up because there are more sources of Chaos Force energy, if you fuse two or more emeralds, then it becomes only a single Chaos Emerald and so a single source to the Chaos Force energy, so 2 separete Chaos Emerald > 2 Fused Chaos Emerald (So what matters is how many energy you can use from a single Chaos Emerald).

So in Ian Flynn run "Two or more Chaos Emeralds are equal to one chaos emerald, because Infinite + Infinite = Infinite. There's nothing to gain if you already have everything".


Anyway, although the Chaos Emeralds being a avatar of the Chaos Force is a thing in the comic, the info about "2 or more Chaos Emeralds is equal to a single one" is a WoG thing that retcons a in-comic info.


Anyway if we can use a WoG thing to retcons a in-comic info about "More Chaos Emeralds, more infinite" to become "There is a single inifnite", I don't know.

I don't know a lot about how we should use WoG here.
Click to expand...
 
Not too badly, but it basically means we have no proper and agreed AP for them. Just "vaguely above".

That'll probably be corrected with future revisions, though.
 
The green set of Chaos Emeralds alone covered the entire surface of Mobius as I've shown, then they and the other 6 sets of Emeralds were combined into a set of 7.

Since just 14 of those Pre-Great Harmony emeralds could destroy the multiverse, yup massively above baseline.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The green set of Chaos Emeralds alone covered the entire surface of Mobius as I've shown, then they and the other 6 sets of Emeralds were combined into a set of 7.
Click to expand...
Didn't Fate debunk that?
 
FateAlbane said:
Ye and thanks, that one does it - there's definitely much more of them in this situation as well (although the situation here shows them being used by different people over the course of time, there are two panels which show more than one). How many exactly is not for me to argue since I'm not familiar with Sonic's history, though.
Click to expand...
 
Okay, this is ridiculous at this point. Not ridiculous as in "I don't believe you" but the other way. Don't get me wrong, Lavos still wins, as unlike Digimon and SMT, this isn't infinite nor impacts Sonic's range (though even I admit that he's by far the strongest in terms of AP that's not infinitely over baseline), but it just feels like the writers wanna load up Sonic as much as they can, Masadaverse style.

Follow up question. We're any 2-A feats prior to the Great Harmony?
 
Only 2-A feat I can recall before Great Harmony is the madman that was going to use the giant Chaos Emerald which was a fusion of 14 Emeralds to cause a crisis across infinite realities.
 
The real cal howard said:
but it just feels like the writers wanna load up Sonic as much as they can, Masadaverse style.
Click to expand...
TBF, The Great Harmony was just to make the emeralds the right color and to make we have "only 7".

The fact that it made him this powerful probably flied over their heads completely.

Also, that story with the sea of emeralds and the billioth ring is one of the best old Archie Sonic comics.
 
Yeah,the Great Harmony would've even fused the Master Emerald with the rest of the green ones,Locke & Finitevus were responsible for preventing that with Tikal's prayer.Massively above baseline 2-A indeed.
 
As far as I can say, yeah Sonic definitely takes it. Fate even said it would be a stomp, although I still think it's fair.

I personally would've preferred Enerjak vs Lavos but eh.
 
Did his Billionth Ring... Just form as a raft? Whatever.

I'm still thinking on this one. AP was all that needed to be settled, and now that it is, I'll go back to giving my take on this match.
 
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