Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Original

Translated

“The game is an epic story of intertwined fates. Super Sonic appeared in an important scene. He draws out the full power of the Chaos Emerald and transforms! He takes off to save his friends and the world.”

I think Emerald is supposed to say Emeralds.

I see. That would, by technicality, just upscale Perfect Chaos since he was contending with the payload Super Sonic was putting out.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Well if that does net 1-C for Perfect Chaos, then something something Base Sonic outlier

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Well if that does net 1-C for Perfect Chaos, then something something Base Sonic outlier

I mean, I don't think it'd be an outlier anymore if this is a two-time occurrence. Cuz this DOES happen again with Void in Shuffle, which he does in base. Then there's another one by Shadow against Metal Overlord. Honestly, it's looking a lot more consistent.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I mean, I don't think it'd be an outlier anymore if this is a two-time occurrence. Cuz this DOES happen again with Void in Shuffle, which he does in base. Then there's another one by Shadow against Metal Overlord. Honestly, it's looking a lot more consistent.

Then get Low 1-C Adventure Era base forms before doing this ig

I'm not even calling things an outlier cuz this site allows high-ends if they can be reasoned

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Then get Low 1-C Adventure Era base forms before doing this ig

I'm not even calling things an outlier cuz this site allows high-ends if they can be reasoned

Sonic Shuffle scaling was previously an outlier on this wiki a long time ago if I remember. With new developments and a bit of convincing, it could definitely happen.

 

[JJSliderman]

Direct void scaling doesn’t work, cuz they never harm him directly and rings allow them to survive.

 

[Omegabronic]

Well someone here pointed out that there's a statement that says Perfect Chaos was using the full power of the Chaos Emeralds

more on that very soon

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I feel like it just make more sense if super sonic had grown linearly over time, low 1-C base Sonic dose sound absurd especially sense it means there is no variation between base form and super, wouldn't it make more sense story that point to say super stomped them dispite what game play says- otherwise well it's scaling sonic to his transformation ya know?

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Direct void scaling doesn’t work, cuz they never harm him directly and rings allow them to survive.

I mean, rings are a regular mechanic that's used anyway. Technically even in the Perfect Chaos fight in Gens. The rocks/meteors used in Shuffle seem more like game mechanics or something. It'd be weird if someone who scales fully above stuff in Maginaryworld is getting hurt by stuff IN Maginaryworld. I dunno, just feels odd and weird to me logic-wise.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I guess we just kinda ask sonic related questions.

But I have a hunch they’ll release a Shadow the Hedgehog level pack for Gens, there’s no way this game can stay having zero levels exclusively from that game.

They absolutely need to do this, to be honest.

SEGA had to have seen the positivity DLC like Final Horizons brought to Sonic Frontiers and, if the movie DLC level is well received, SEGA should consider at least releasing two levels from Shadow 05.

Anything to give us more than seven levels when the DLC comes out. The levels in Shadow Generations are amazing, but I need more goddamn it.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I feel like it just make more sense if super sonic had grown linearly over time, low 1-C base Sonic dose sound absurd especially sense it means there is no variation between base form and super, wouldn't it make more sense story that point to say super stomped them dispite what game play says- otherwise well it's scaling sonic to his transformation ya know?

It sounds cracked, but I don't think that makes it some sort of taboo to do. Universal/Low Multiversal scaling for Sonic was already hard enough and hard for people to believe. This just feels like a natural evolution of that.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

They absolutely need to do this, to be honest.

SEGA had to have seen the positivity DLC like Final Horizons brought to Sonic Frontiers and, if the movie DLC level is well received, SEGA should consider at least releasing two levels from Shadow 05.

Anything to give us more than seven levels when the DLC comes out. The levels in Shadow Generations are amazing, but I need more goddamn it.

I'd love to see Digital Circuit/Mad Matrix but completely reimagined.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

It sounds cracked, but I don't think that makes it some sort of taboo to do. Universal/Low Multiversal scaling for Sonic was already hard enough and hard for people to believe. This just feels like a natural evolution of that.

Having super being so close to base just dosen't sit right with me? Idk I feel like there's a better way i just don't know what it is

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Having super being so close to base just dosen't sit right with me? Idk I feel like there's a better way i just don't know what it is

Super would naturally upscale base, then. It isn't that big a deal lol. If base is this strong, Super would be way stronger and in a different tier/baseline of its own.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I'd love to see Digital Circuit/Mad Matrix but completely reimagined.

Meh, I'm more of a Cryptic Castle type guy myself.

That and I'm not a big fan of Digital Circuit or Mad Matrix, the graphics and colors of those stages gave me headaches. And trying to complete the Dark mission in Mad Matrix sucked ass

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Meh, I'm more of a Cryptic Castle type guy myself.

That and I'm not a big fan of Digital Circuit or Mad Matrix, the graphics and colors of those stages gave me headaches. And trying to complete the Dark mission in Mad Matrix sucked ass

Fair. Cryptic Castle would actually be way cooler for the setting of Shadow Gens anyway. I just like it cuz it's a form of cyber space and it kinda was Cyberspace from Frontiers before that ish was cool LMAO

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Fair. Cryptid Castle would actually be way cooler for the setting of Shadow Gens anyway. I just like it cuz it's a form of cyber space and it kinda was Cyberspace from Frontiers before that ish was cool LMAO

I mean it'd just be cool because not only is Cryptic Castle the most visually interesting level from Shadow 05, but having a light heartedly horror themed stage in a Sonic game would be pretty neat.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I mean it'd just be cool because not only is Cryptic Castle the most visually interesting level from Shadow 05, but having a light heartedly horror themed stage in a Sonic game would be pretty neat.

Nah, I get what you mean. It is a really goated stage. Prison Island (Shadow the Hedgehog) could also be a fun stage, too. Especially with a lot of the Doom Surf/Morph stuff they could definitely use.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

They really downplayed the Phantom Ruby when comparing it to the Wonder Flower & King Boo. Matthew "Ultraguy" Jones neglected to mention that it passively, without any users, nullified the Master Emerald long enough for Angel Island to crash back into the ocean. You know, the artifact that can power null something with far better reality warping than the Wonder Flower, the Chaos Emeralds.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It’s because super form power levels are accepted based on emotional empowerment as opposed to time growth, and Overlord had a lot of conditions that made him scaling to the highest empowerment level make sense.

Tbh, this was flawed. The way we scale Super Forms is by individual feats, not by things like this. The Metal Overlord stuff went against this.

So, Metal Overlord should go down to 2-C. Light-Man Eggman should also be revisited, though I think he'll be Low 1-C because of the Egg Field

 

[Peptocoptr27]

They really downplayed the Phantom Ruby when comparing it to the Wonder Flower & King Boo. Matthew "Ultraguy" Jones neglected to mention that it passively, without any users, nullified the Master Emerald long enough for Angel Island to crash back into the ocean. You know, the artifact that can power null something with far better reality warping than the Wonder Flower, the Chaos Emeralds.

They sure did, but when did that happen?

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbh, this was flawed. The way we scale Super Forms is by individual feats, not by things like this. The Metal Overlord stuff went against this.

So, Metal Overlord should go down to 2-C. Light-Man Eggman should also be revisited, though I think he'll be Low 1-C because of the Egg Field

I think Overlord also benefited from being one of the only super form bosses who straight couldn’t be damaged by a single super form.

 

[JJSliderman]

They really downplayed the Phantom Ruby when comparing it to the Wonder Flower & King Boo. Matthew "Ultraguy" Jones neglected to mention that it passively, without any users, nullified the Master Emerald long enough for Angel Island to crash back into the ocean. You know, the artifact that can power null something with far better reality warping than the Wonder Flower, the Chaos Emeralds.

I think this is a strange comparison, Master Emerald specifically only nullifies the Chaos Emeralds

 

[Omegabronic]

I feel like it just make more sense if super sonic had grown linearly over time, low 1-C base Sonic dose sound absurd especially sense it means there is no variation between base form and super, wouldn't it make more sense story that point to say super stomped them dispite what game play says- otherwise well it's scaling sonic to his transformation ya know?

The gap between base and super form would stay the same.....not that tier 1 base Sonic is ever happening tho.....it is impossible

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I think this is a strange comparison, Master Emerald specifically only nullifies the Chaos Emeralds

Passively power nulling the Master Emerald is impressive enough as is, since it a reality warping artifact that upscales from the Chaos Emeralds anyway, so I want to know where this comes from.

 

[Omegabronic]

Tbh, this was flawed. The way we scale Super Forms is by individual feats, not by things like this. The Metal Overlord stuff went against this.

Don't remember a guideline ever doing or saying this, no, there is actually a consistent pattert for when a Supet Form is at full power, planning on making a blog on it eventually

So, Metal Overlord should go down to 2-C. Light-Man Eggman should also be revisited, though I think he'll be Low 1-C because of the Egg Field

His energy made Dark Gaia, the 1-C enemy.....his tier will stay no matter what

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Wait low 1-C dosen't come from dark Gaia tho? Did you mean something else?

 

[Angelzewolf]

If they honestly add more DLC to Shadow Generations (which they might), then I hope they add Radical Highway. It's a pretty cool and nostalgic stage.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The gap between base and super form would stay the same.....not that tier 1 base Sonic is ever happening tho.....it is impossible

I'll be honest i sincerely hope that doesn't pan out, I would vastly perfer Super sonic was just measured by feats. It be so much cleaner with progression and not make super arbitrarily "more" then base.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

They sure did, but when did that happen?

Stealth said it during his developer playthrough.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Stealth said it during his developer playthrough.

Source? Passive power null is a pretty big deal, you know? Would be nice to have it on the profile.

 

[JJSliderman]

Don't remember a guideline ever doing or saying this, no, there is actually a consistent pattert for when a Supet Form is at full power, planning on making a blog on it eventually


His energy made Dark Gaia, the 1-C enemy.....his tier will stay no matter what

Aren’t the Lightman copies not as strong as the originals due to lack of heart?

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Source? Passive power null is a pretty big deal, you know? Would be nice to have it on the profile.

Erm, that playthrough is like 7+ hours long or something. I can try to sift through it to find when he said it.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Erm, that playthrough is like 7+ hours long or something. I can try to sift through it to find when he said it.

Do we have any hint that the Phantom Ruby could have done that outside of this playthrough? Did Angel Island crash for unspecified reasons and he mentionned that the Phantom Ruby by itself is responsible for it unprompted?

 

[Omegabronic]

Wait low 1-C dosen't come from dark Gaia tho? Did you mean something else?

Dark Gaia is 1-C

I'll be honest i sincerely hope that doesn't pan out, I would vastly perfer Super sonic was just measured by feats. It be so much cleaner with progression and not make super arbitrarily "more" then base.

Super Sonic canonically varies in power, so......we need to rate him as such

Aren’t the Lightman copies not as strong as the originals due to lack of heart?

that is only for Perfect Chaos as he is a Chaos Energy powered being, as "heart" is the energy's core.....that obviously doesn't apply to any other non Chaos being

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Do we have any hint that the Phantom Ruby could have done that outside of this playthrough? Did Angel Island crash for unspecified reasons and he mentionned that the Phantom Ruby by itself is responsible for it unprompted?

The energy signal/dimensional breach that Tails & Eggman pick up in the plot summary matches what Stealth says about the Ruby causing the island to crash. It's already in the ocean by the time the Egg Robos get there to excavate it. Egg Reverie also kinda supports it having passive power null, too, by reacting to the Chaos Emeralds the way it did. I guess Super Sonic may have been resisting it through the entire battle & just gave out at the last second. IDK.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Don't remember a guideline ever doing or saying this, no, there is actually a consistent pattert for when a Supet Form is at full power, planning on making a blog on it eventually

We can't force a "pattern" though, we have to go by individual feats because of the variable nature of the Chaos Emeralds. You can't force consistency onto something inherently inconsistent

His energy made Dark Gaia, the 1-C enemy.....his tier will stay no matter what

Aren't the copies inferior or something like that? I remember bringing this up but getting a response against it

 

[Tyranno223]

Recent DB reminded me of this, but wasn't there plans to make Super Neo Metal Sonic 1-C (alongside Master Overlord)?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Recent DB reminded me of this, but wasn't there plans to make Super Neo Metal Sonic 1-C (alongside Master Overlord)?

No, Super Neo Metal falls into the same problem as Mecha Sonic using the Master Emerald, that being that it's likely he can't use its full power. And Master Overlord is just a fraud. Straight up

 

[Peptocoptr27]

The energy signal/dimensional breach that Tails & Eggman pick up in the plot summary matches what Stealth says about the Ruby causing the island to crash. It's already in the ocean by the time the Egg Robos get there to excavate it. Egg Reverie also kinda supports it having passive power null, too, by reacting to the Chaos Emeralds the way it did. I guess Super Sonic may have been resisting it through the entire battle & just gave out at the last second. IDK.

You should make a CRT about this. You seem in a better position to make it than I am, and it's a huge addition