Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Fireld]

,.......,what? people still cope about that?

You never learn

 

[Peptocoptr27]

He literally mutates new powers, he does have it

And that alone is enough to conclude that his mutation also includes reactive power level that gets him from 4-B to 2-C?

 

[Omegabronic]

And that alone is enough to conclude that his mutation also includes reactive power level that gets him from 4-B to 2-C?

.......we saw him fighting a 2-C character, did we not?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

.......we saw him fighting a 2-C character, did we not?

But by the same logic, should we not give every the Egg Emperor reactive evolution as well? If not other Generations bosses?

Also, his reactive evolution applies to hos life support system somehow?

 

[Omegabronic]

But by the same logic, should we not give every the Egg Emperor reactive evolution as well? If not other Generations bosses?
Also, his reactive evolution applies to hos life support system somehow?

......they don't have any indication of having it, the Biolizard does

And yeah it would since from said Support System is where its mutation came out i. His fight with Shadow

 

[Peptocoptr27]

......they don't have any indication of having it, the Biolizard does

Neither does Mecha Sonic, and yet he still went from High 5-A to 2-C for no reason.

 

[Omegabronic]

Neither does Mecha Sonic, and yet he still went from High 5-A to 2-C for no reason.

Dude, why bring an unrelated character all of a sudden? Still doesn't change that Biolizard has a canon power to explain it, Egg Emperor, who should be from heroes, doesn't

 

[Theuser789]

Eggman has a modern Egg Emperor in IDW if that's relevant.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Non-applicable to AP considering he is literally manipulating a whole lot of nothing.

However, it's a good Void Manipulation and Range feat (5-D).

Ah true, there goes my hope for more 5-D characters.

So ignoring Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord malarkey, what tier would Complete Doom Shadow and Black Doom’s higher forms be then? Just upscaling from what they’re currently at? Or will my wish of a Black Doom-possessed Shadow boxing the Time Eater become true?

Eggman has a modern Egg Emperor in IDW if that's relevant.

Personally I think the Egg Dragoon and Egg Emperor are like Silver, Shadow and Black Doom, in where they’re from the present and not brought back from the past. Would make more sense than Eggman bringing out a random mech from Heroes and expecting to win.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Ah true, there goes my hope for more 5-D characters.

So ignoring Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord malarkey, what tier would Complete Doom Shadow and Black Doom’s higher forms be then? Just upscaling from what they’re currently at? Or will my wish of a Black Doom-possessed Shadow boxing the Time Eater become true?


Personally I think the Egg Dragoon and Egg Emperor are like Silver, Shadow and Black Doom, in where they’re from the present and not brought back from the past. Would make more sense than Eggman bringing out a random mech from Heroes and expecting to win.

Complete Doom Shadow is heavily implied by his ring consumption and golden aura to be at the threshold of Super level. Devil Doom scales off of him. Plus, Doom being able to warp white space has to count for something

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Personally I think the Egg Dragoon and Egg Emperor are like Silver, Shadow and Black Doom, in where they’re from the present and not brought back from the past. Would make more sense than Eggman bringing out a random mech from Heroes and expecting to win.

That's also what I think. I should have said Mephiles instead.

Dude, why bring an unrelated character all of a sudden? Still doesn't change that Biolizard has a canon power to explain it, Egg Emperor, who should be from heroes, doesn't

What about Mephiles? If we can theorize that Biolizard has AD via his mutations, can't we assume that Mephiles also has AD from having copied Shadow's the same way he copied his sealing resistance?

 

[Theuser789]

Mephiles needed unhibited Shadow to deal with in 06 and now he loses to base Shadow. He's just strong and now he's weaker than the base cast.

 

[JJSliderman]

Mephiles needed unhibited Shadow to deal with in 06 and now he loses to base Shadow. He's just strong and now he's weaker than the base cast.

I’ll be honest, kinda prefer him being a weak bitch since Iblis is supposed to have all the power.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I’ll be honest, kinda prefer him being a weak bitch since Iblis is supposed to have all the power.

That just means Iblis upscale

 

[RedReaper616]

Mephiles needed unhibited Shadow to deal with in 06 and now he loses to base Shadow. He's just strong and now he's weaker than the base cast.

I mean this kinda overlooks that at the time Mephiles had access to two Chaos Emeralds and had grown in strength, whereas Shadow took him on with none to his name.

 

[Theuser789]

I’ll be honest, kinda prefer him being a weak bitch since Iblis is supposed to have all the power.

He was beating Shadow in a 1v1 in 06 while not using the move that killed Sonic.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Wow, this scaling chain is really ******* confusing if we really do accept that Mephiles should scale to Generations Shadow instead of 06 Shadow. How much stronger are Generations base forms supposed to be relative to 06 base forms again?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Do Shadow's Doom powers amplify him indefinitely or does he selectively activate an "amp"?

 

[RedReaper616]

Wow, this scaling chain is really ******* confusing if we really do accept that Mephiles should scale to Generations Shadow instead of 06 Shadow. How much stronger are Generations base forms supposed to be relative to 06 base forms again?

Wanna make it more confusing? Account for the fact Generations creates a scaling Time Loop via Classic Sonic being as powerful as he is, continuously looping and amping. Literal black hole of logic and sense due to this game existing.

 

[Theuser789]

Wow, this scaling chain is really ******* confusing if we really do accept that Mephiles should scale to Generations Shadow instead of 06 Shadow. How much stronger are Generations base forms supposed to be relative to 06 base forms again?

He downscales, not fully scales as if he was an equal.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Do Shadow's Doom powers amplify him indefinitely or does he selectively activate an "amp"?

I personally lean toward it being the former as it feels more natural with Black Doom’s intentions, but I believe there’s no real answer.

 

[RedReaper616]

Do Shadow's Doom powers amplify him indefinitely or does he selectively activate an "amp"?

Based on what we know, it seems that it's a bit of both. It's made pretty clear Shadow is literally growing in power to be physically better, ala Black Doom's connection, and this is demonstrated without Aura, but Shadow also at time uses an Aura to signify his Doom Powers and demonstrate his growth. I'd argue he's gotten stronger in his normal state and can just further amplify himself with his Aura selectively. Then by the end of the game he loses both of these amps.

 

[MysticMania]

I don't remember Shadow needing to remove his Limiter Rings to defeat Mephiles, maybe. But even then, Shadow has tricks in Sh.Gens that he didn't in 06, like Doom Blast, Doom Morph, Doom Spears, and he uses Chaos Control this time too. Mephiles can even hold back Shadow's rapid strikes, with Doom Morph being needed to force past him.

This is me infecting people with my own personal "consistent power" propaganda, but I think 06 Meph is scaling well to Gens Shadow.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Wanna make it more confusing? Account for the fact Generations creates a scaling Time Loop via Classic Sonic being as powerful as he is, continuously looping and amping. Literal black hole of logic and sense due to this game existing.

That I already know. We can just give Classic Sonic a "modern appearences key and call it a day because there was SUPPOSED to be a timeline split after Generations, and we already know Sonic has AD.

He downscales, not fully scales as if he was an equal.

Sure, but if Generations base forms are overwhelmingly stronger than 06 base forms (which they should be, just from being comparable to the Egg Dragoon), and if Iblis is even stronger than Mephiles, who downscales from Generations Shadow, then how did 06 Sonic and Shadow beat IBLIS? Don't even get me started on speed.

Wow. Part 2 is gonna have a lot to cover. Looking foreward to it.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Don't even get me started on speed.

Actually wait, why are 06 characters not Infinite speed on their profiles rn? Their entire scaling comes from fighting machines that are better than another machine that’s Infinite speed.

I don’t agree with baseline Super forms being Infinite speed (and I’m a bit iffy on 06 characters upscaling from them), but if that’s the logic we’re using rn I feel it’s strange for them to not be Infinite.

Same goes for Immeasurable LS, but obviously I completely disagree with that being there at all so meh.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Actually wait, why are 06 characters not Infinite speed on their profiles rn? Their entire scaling comes from fighting machines that are better than another machine that’s Infinite speed.

I don’t agree with baseline Super forms being Infinite speed (and I’m a bit iffy on 06 characters upscaling from them), but if that’s the logic we’re using rn I feel it’s strange for them to not be Infinite.

Same goes for Immeasurable LS, but obviously I completely disagree with that being there at all so meh.

Fully agreed. I'm already planning on downgrading baseline Super form LS and speed as well as downgrading the early Modern era base forms to 3-C/3-B, but this might complicate things.

 

[Theuser789]

then how did 06 Sonic and Shadow beat Mephiles?

Simple. They didn't.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Simple. They didn't.

I meant Iblis!

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I meant Iblis!

I'm pretty sure that the Ibis Sonic and Shadow fought in 06 wasn't the full entity, but like some comparatively smaller worm looking form of the entity.

When Silver tried to confront Iblis at the end of his campaign with Blaze, the latter had to seal Iblis in herself using two Emeralds IIRC. So I don't think any character physically beat Iblis in 06.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yeah supposedly Iblis was all the power of Solaris or something to that effect (without the emeralds though) , so the idea of Sonic and Co scaling to it is, well, weird.

 

[JJSliderman]

It probably works if you consider the final boss Solaris as essentially a super form

 

[Peptocoptr27]

It probably works if you consider the final boss Solaris as essentially a super form

It very much is.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

When Silver tried to confront Iblis at the end of his campaign with Blaze, the latter had to seal Iblis in herself using two Emeralds IIRC. So I don't think any character physically beat Iblis in 06.

That's because of Iblis' regen. Theh still beat Iblis and kept up with his speed. I guess Silver did so by reflecting his own attacks back at him though...

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

... Makes you wonder if Solaris would've looked any different if the emeralds didn't amp him up..

 

[Remus1998]

... Makes you wonder if Solaris would've looked any different if the emeralds didn't amp him up..

Probably be its flame form, you know the flames of disaster

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Probably be its flame form, you know the flames of disaster

Wade Whipple has entered the chat

 

[RedReaper616]

That reminds me, the idea of Ifrit being the "Blaze Dimension" equivalent of Iblis has been a mini-nonsense theory of mine. Like it doesn't make tangible sense beyond their parallels in the story (and their origins in Islam connecting them), but I like it so much that in my head it makes sense despite the fact there's not real hard concrete (or even at all just soft and implicative) evidence leading into this direction at all.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Kinda funny Biolizard tried to pull a mini SCP-682 and truly become a "hard to kill lizard" but it wasn't enough to over come its "brother".

That reminds me, the idea of Ifrit being the "Blaze Dimension" equivalent of Iblis has been a mini-nonsense theory of mine. Like it doesn't make tangible sense beyond their parallels in the story (and their origins in Islam connecting them), but I like it so much that in my head it makes sense despite the fact there's not real hard concrete (or even at all just soft and implicative) evidence leading into this direction at all.

Sonic 06 in general will always be unnecessary baggage to Blaze's lore, just leave her be in the Sol dimension and actually explore that said dimension. Also I remember reading an interesting Sonic fanfic about Eggman N... >REDACTED< discovering Ifrit had an icy sibling call "Valefor" that consumes Wisps (instead of Chao) to become invincible and using it's power to create the ultimate weapon.

 

[ShakeResounding]

An icy villain called Valefor from Blaze's Dimension sounds f×#king awesome. I assume it's an ice-related synonym?

 

[JJSliderman]

That's because of Iblis' regen. Theh still beat Iblis and kept up with his speed. I guess Silver did so by reflecting his own attacks back at him though...

The whole rings damage Transferal thing is a real double edged sword, it’s cool they can survive things up to 6-D but it makes “they survive hits from x enemy” less impactful as durability feats.