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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

LaserPrecision said:
It also makes no sense for it to be superior to the Chaos Blast. You can't assert either without evidence. I'm also quite confident Sonic does indeed fold Super Shadow. He has quantifiable amps of his own and is faster than Shadow to begin with. Super Sonic is also stronger because he has better control over the Emeralds. Super Sonic would not be defeated by Super Shadow in any scenario tbh. Unless Shadow went out of character and spammed all his hax.
Click to expand...
The evidence being that Shadow is no longer limiting his power. Otherwise if his Chaos Blast was already more powerful then there’d be no point. Sonic is certainly more experienced in using the super form, but seeing as how he hasn’t fought Shadow uninhibited, you could say Shadow has never been pushed to go all-out against him.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The evidence being that Shadow is no longer limiting his power. Otherwise if his Chaos Blast was already more powerful then there’d be no point. Sonic is certainly more experienced in using the super form, but seeing as how he hasn’t fought Shadow uninhibited, you could say Shadow has never been pushed to go all-out against him.
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Shadow hasn't fought Sonic using power boost so you can argue Shadow has never fought Sonic at full power either.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
The evidence being that Shadow is no longer limiting his power. Otherwise if his Chaos Blast was already more powerful then there’d be no point. Sonic is certainly more experienced in using the super form, but seeing as how he hasn’t fought Shadow uninhibited, you could say Shadow has never been pushed to go all-out against him.
Click to expand...
There would be a point. It's more versatile than Chaos Blast. Chaos Blast is a slow charging attack that he can't move around while using that's easy to evade. It would've been SUPER inefficient at taking out all those fodder clones. Not limiting his power =/= being superior to a move that uses almost all of his energy instantly and scales FAR above Shadow's normal ap. Would I put it above a Chaos Spear? Sure. That's a move Shadow can use immediately and uses no energy. But Chaos Blast and his other normal moves aren't comparable.

The thing is, Super Sonic > Super Shadow when not accounting for amps. There's no reason to believe when uninhibited he'd be superior to Super Sonic. Especially when Super Sonic ALSO has amps in the form of Focused Homing Attack, Phantom Rush, and has better AD. Shadow even admitted Sonic was the true Ultimate Life Form after being bested in the utilization of Chaos Energy which is supposed to be his shtick. I think Shadow's a tough fight when uninhibited. I don't think he wins at all tho.
 
LaserPrecision said:
There would be a point. It's more versatile than Chaos Blast. Chaos Blast is a slow charging attack that he can't move around while using that's easy to evade. It would've been SUPER inefficient at taking out all those fodder clones. Not limiting his power =/= being superior to a move that uses almost all of his energy instantly and scales FAR above Shadow's normal ap. Would I put it above a Chaos Spear? Sure. That's a move Shadow can use immediately and uses no energy. But Chaos Blast and his other normal moves aren't comparable.
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Uses almost all of his energy? Shadow can spam Chaos Blast until the Dark gauge is empty. Plus as it would follow, his Chaos Blast without the limiters would also be even more powerful.
LaserPrecision said:
The thing is, Super Sonic > Super Shadow when not accounting for amps. There's no reason to believe when uninhibited he'd be superior to Super Sonic. Especially when Super Sonic ALSO has amps in the form of Focused Homing Attack, Phantom Rush, and has better AD. Shadow even admitted Sonic was the true Ultimate Life Form after being bested in the utilization of Chaos Energy which is supposed to be his shtick. I think Shadow's a tough fight when uninhibited. I don't think he wins at all tho.
Click to expand...
Super Shadow has Super Sonic Boost, can augment the Chaos Spear with Chaos Lance/Spear of Light, and still has access the to his Hero/Dark forms. Yeah Sonic has amps, but so does Shadow and it doesn’t just come from removing his limiters. I wouldn’t take what Shadow said about Sonic being the Ultimate Life Form really seriously, sounds like he may have been jesting around there. SA2/Heroes Shadow was pretty cocky. Unless you also want to take into account that Sonic Battle states Shadow is faster than Sonic.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Uses almost all of his energy? Shadow can spam Chaos Blast until the Dark gauge is empty. Plus as it would follow, his Chaos Blast without the limiters would also be even more powerful.
Click to expand...
IIRC in 2006 you need to use a bar or it takes up most of your bar to use Chaos Blast. Tho it's been a year or two since I played. But yeah, sure. Chaos Blast would be stronger without the Inhibitor rings. No reason for it to be superior to Chaos Blast tho. That's just a baseless assumption.
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Super Shadow has Super Sonic Boost, can augment the Chaos Spear with Chaos Lance/Spear of Light, and still has access the to his Hero/Dark forms.
Click to expand...
And yet Super Sonic is still superior to Super Shadow. Sonic can use Super Sonic Boost, augment his attack, and has access to his FHA and PR.
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Yeah Sonic has amps, but so does Shadow and it doesn’t just come from removing his limiters. I wouldn’t take what Shadow said about Sonic being the Ultimate Life Form really seriously, sounds like he may have been jesting around there.
Click to expand...
There was absolutely zero reason Shadow would be joking about such a thing ever. Ignoring that Shadow isn't the jokester type, he had a serious tone, was being bested by Sonic in the use of Chaos Emeralds and Shadow is usually the type to boast. Not joke about others capabilities (Not when written well like in SA2 to 2006 anyway).
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
SA2/Heroes Shadow was pretty cocky. Unless you also want to take into account that Sonic Battle states Shadow is faster than Sonic.
Click to expand...
Yeah, cocky. So he would overestimate himself. Not overestimate others to be a dick. It doesn't make any sense. Why would a cocky person who overestimates themselves joke about others being superior to themselves? At that point in the game, Sonic and Shadow were getting along, and Shadow realized what he was fighting for. It was a serious scene in general.

Yes, I do take into account Battle says Shadow is faster... but it's never ever stated again. He was only faster during the events of Battle. And even then he admitted again to Sonic being superior when he believed Sonic was the only one who could take on Ultimate Emerl.

When not accounting for amps: Super Sonic > Super Shadow

Given both have amps, I'd say at worst the two are about equal. At best Sonic still has an advantage because his Super Form is stronger due to him having greater control over the Chaos Emeralds than Shadow. He also has better AD. Super Shadow with all his amps would give Super Sonic trouble, wouldn't win tho.
 
Psychokinesis gaining durability negation is a part of it. Super states also seem to have, like, layers of protection against afflictions and things. Going Super undid the Metal Virus' infection and transmutation on Sonic, and Zavok having only one Emerald prevented the MV from affecting him despite direct contact, it seems. So, some hax that Silver may be vulnerable to in base may not affect him in Super.
 
MysticMania said:
Psychokinesis gaining durability negation is a part of it. Super states also seem to have, like, layers of protection against afflictions and things. Going Super undid the Metal Virus' infection and transmutation on Sonic, and Zavok having only one Emerald prevented the MV from affecting him despite direct contact, it seems. So, some hax that Silver may be vulnerable to in base may not affect him in Super.
Click to expand...
I dunno if we treat what he did as durability negation given he just pulled apart the molecules of the Metal Virus from the molecules of those infected. Although technically what he actually did was somehow undid transmutation with PK now that I think about it...
 
LaserPrecision said:
While were on the topic of jobdow, I'm curious as to why people believe Shadow without inhibitation rings is so much stronger than he normally is for folding a bunch of fodder clones. Like it's def an amp. Wouldn't put it above any other arbitrary amp tho such as one's Sonic gets in generations (such as the one that further increases his speed), etc.
Click to expand...
Tbh I see Metal Sonic as a even bigger jobber than Shadow, at his peak he is essentially Sonic but with Emerl's power mimicry, Eggman's intelligence and immunity to several hax due being a robot yet canonically gets beaten several times both individually (Sonic, Knuckles, Silver, Shadow and Zavok have all 1v1 Metal and won) or getting jumped (Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Heroes, Neo Metal IDW arc, etc). The cherry on top is Metal beating his so call "successor" model Metal Sonic V3.0 in Rivals 2 which indeed confirms Metal has a bad future.
 
I guess in the meantime, I kinda wanted to re-examine the Exception feat. Last time I was unsure because I thought there were stars during the gameplay segment of the boss, but since it was kind of blurry a lot of people wrote it off.

But this time, I think there is some decent evidence to show that the area Sonic and Blaze were going to (the pinkish colored dimensional rift), definitely has celestial bodies near it.

ibb.co

6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co
ibb.co

6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co

Since the premise of the current Exception calc is based on Sonic traveling to an area with no celestial bodies, I think it might be worth discussing.
 
JJSliderman said:
I guess in the meantime, I kinda wanted to re-examine the Exception feat. Last time I was unsure because I thought there were stars during the gameplay segment of the boss, but since it was kind of blurry a lot of people wrote it off.

But this time, I think there is some decent evidence to show that the area Sonic and Blaze were going to (the pinkish colored dimensional rift), definitely has celestial bodies near it.

ibb.co

6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co
ibb.co

6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co

Since the premise of the current Exception calc is based on Sonic traveling to an area with no celestial bodies, I think it might be worth discussing.
Click to expand...
It is not suppose that the enciclopedia Say the where flying into a dimensiónal Rift that is between blazes and Sonic universes
 
The rift itself doesn’t have to be at the edge of Sonic’s universe, the plot states that Blaze’s dimension was coming into Sonic’s, so the distance the rift is at could be anywhere.
 
JJSliderman said:
I guess in the meantime, I kinda wanted to re-examine the Exception feat. Last time I was unsure because I thought there were stars during the gameplay segment of the boss, but since it was kind of blurry a lot of people wrote it off.

But this time, I think there is some decent evidence to show that the area Sonic and Blaze were going to (the pinkish colored dimensional rift), definitely has celestial bodies near it.

ibb.co

6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-A0080-A3-5-E20-4-B62-8657-C42188-B0-C586 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co
ibb.co

6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted at ImgBB

Image 6-E7-EBA50-ED49-495-A-B3-E5-EBCC4-C011647 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co

Since the premise of the current Exception calc is based on Sonic traveling to an area with no celestial bodies, I think it might be worth discussing.
Click to expand...
it wouldn't change any ratings so, meh
 
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