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Sonic General Discussion Zone 16: The Planet Busting

Let's break down what Cal Howard said, lmao.

First of all, the ONLY things Shadow and Mewtwo might have in common is that they are artificially created. This however, is not something unique to Mewtwo. They're have been many characters in fiction who have been artifically created. Also, "godlike powers" really? This is a very vauge comparsion and it's kinda unfair to say that this is something Shadow and Mewtwo have in common when it's something Shadow and Mewtwo have in common with many other characters across fiction LOL.

Shadow was never made by an "evil organization". He was created by Dr. Gearld Robotnik to be the savior of all humanity, that was his entire purpose. Mewtwo however served a different purpose, he was created because humans wanted to play God.


Also, Shadow may resemble Sonic but his design was never based off of him in mind. That's just a coincidence, Mewtwo and Mew actually have a special connection.

Also, "Anti-hero"...what?

Vegeta is an anti-hero. Is Shadow a rip off of him?

Bass is an Anti-Hero as well. Is Shadow a rip off of him?

"Existential Crisis" Do you know how many characters have these? This isn't something unique to Mewtwo. Mewtwo most likely has a DIFFERENT KIND of existential crisis compared to Shadow. Does Mewtwo need to look for or recollect his past? Does he have amnesia?

Also, let's be more specific. Maria Robotnik is Dr. Gerald's GRANDDAUGHTER...not his actual daughter...there's a big difference there. Also, while Gerald was looking for a way to save his granddaughter, Shadow's main purpose was to be the savior of all humanity not just being an cure for Maria's illness.

Like, the way Shadow and Mewtwo were even created was VASTLY different lol. Shadow and Mewtwo don't even share similar characteristics, personality, or even behavioral traits. Shadow and Mewtwo have almost nothing in common, Cal.
 
The Bayonetta and Shadow comparisons are even worse:

-Both use guns

So does Dante, lol. Shadow doesn't even USE guns, using guns are optional in Shadow the Hedgehog. Shadow uses his hands and whatever weapon he comes across but he mainly relies on Chaos Energy. Shadow does not use guns like Bayonetta does.

-Both fell from space

That's such a vague comparison. How does that even make any sense? Sonic fell from space, does that mean he's similar to Bayonetta? Not even a fair comparsion.

-Both kinda swear

Bayonetta curses her ass off like crazy. Shadow says, "Damn" and "Hell" and that's it lol. Shadow's also more calm and collected, while Bayonetta can be a bit more crazy and impulsive.

-Both know an Eggman

....What? Eggman was referenced in the game, but Bayonetta doesn't "know" an Eggman LOL.

-They collect rings

.....Okay but the rings in the Sonic series can be used as weapons and can amplify one's abilities. Rings in the Sonic series are utilized a lot differently in the Sonic Series compared to how Bayonetta only uses it for currency.

-Red and Black

Wow. This is bait, lol. Shadow and Ryuko have a similar color scheme, does that mean Shadow is similar to her? No, lol. This is not a fair comparsion.

-Manipulate time

Do you know how many fictional characters can manipulate time? How is this an even fair comparison? This is very vague. Homura Akemi can mainpulate time, is Shadow similar to her? Nope. Disregard this point.

-Both had amnesia

Both had different kinds of problems where amnesia was involved and they approached it differently. Disregard this.

Shadow and Bayo have nothing in common.
 
I'm down.

Unfortunately, the 2-C thread actually needs to be concluded before any arguments can be made for it. And while I know it's dumb and annoying, that's just how it is. As soon as the 5-B thread is over, we're basically gonna migrate over to that thread and finish it up.
 
From what I read Godhand's whole spiel is that there are many characters in fiction that also shares similar qualities to Shadow and Mewtwo. And therefore invalidates Cal's comparison.
 
MYHERO said:
From what I read Godhand's whole spiel is that there are many characters in fiction that also shares similar qualities to Shadow and Mewtwo. And therefore invalidates Cal's comparison.
Click to expand...
That's not it, it's the fact that Cal came up with very vauge comparsions that you see all throughout fiction. This isn't something that's unique to Mewtwo, I also said how Shadow and Mewtwo handle their situations and problems differently.

This invalidates the claim that Shadow and Mewtwo are alike.
 
ShakeResounding said:
I'm down.
Unfortunately, the 2-C thread actually needs to be concluded before any arguments can be made for it. And while I know it's dumb and annoying, that's just how it is. As soon as the 5-B thread is over, we're basically gonna migrate over to that thread and finish it up.
Click to expand...
What about 4-A Super Sonic. I want him back
 
@Godhand1999 No...

If they share same qualities as other characters, then that just means you have some similarities. Yes the details in these qualities are different, but that doesn't mean you get to shake them off and say "there completely different guys."

Nobody is saying that these two characters are essentially the same character. We're saying that they share some similarities, no matter how different in context they are with each other.
 
So here's a brief timeline that I'm seeing.

5-B Base Characters -> 4-A Super Sonic (and possibly others) -> 2-C Level Update.

So as soon as we're done with 5-B, we can shift over to 4-A to see if that's holding up since there's already a nearly-full thread for it. Then I guess it's the 2-C discussion after that, since there's a blog dedicated to it and we'll have to agree in the level of 2-C that we use.

Sounds good?
 
MYHERO said:
@Godhand1999 No...
If they share same qualities as other characters, then that just means you have some similarities. Yes the details in these qualities are different, but that doesn't mean you get to shake them off and say "there completely different guys."

Nobody is saying that these two characters are essentially the same character. We're saying that they share some similarities, no matter how different in context they are with each other.
Click to expand...
No...

It's because the details in these qualites that are different is what makes these comparsions faulty to begin with. Shadow and Mewtwo do not have any real common similarities between the two of them. Even the way they were made, how they were born, what purpose they serve, characteristics, personality, and their role in the story are ALL different. You can't make a comparsion with two different characters.

These are still vauge similarities nonetheless. It shouldn't count at all, Cal is saying how, "Shadow's backstory is literally just Mewtwo's" which is objectively incorrect and I had to break down why those reasons were faulty.
 
You guys are both right here tbh. Shadow isn't basically just Mewtwo, but Hero's right in the sense that vague similarities are still similarities even if they're potentially flawed, vague, or misleading. Meet halfway here, guys.

For me? Pretty please?
 
ShakeResounding said:
You guys are both right here tbh. Shadow isn't basically just Mewtwo, but Hero's right in the sense that vague similarities are still similarities even if they're potentially flawed, vague, or misleading. Meet halfway here, guys.
For me? Pretty please? </div>
Click to expand...
Well, I was merely tackling Cal's point specfically because he's kinda implying Shadow's backstory is the same as Mewtwo's. It kinda comes off as him saying that Shadow is basically Mewtwo and that didn't sit well with me.

Sure, but the differences are still VERY signficant. I would not say that Shadow and Mewtwo have any real similarity with each other because how different their personality, character, ideas, how they were made, and purpose are.
 
@Godhand1999

No...

Imitation is flattery : )

It's because the details in these qualites that are different is what makes these comparsions faulty to begin with. Shadow and Mewtwo do not have any real common similarities between the two of them. Even the way they were made, how they were born, what purpose they serve, characteristics, personality, and their role in the story are ALL different. You can't make a comparsion with two different characters.

No what makes comparisons like these faulty is if the person is claiming that they are exactly the same as each other. If it's just somebody that is just casually saying they are similar because they share certain traits, that doesn't make them faulty. They are similar, but not the same. Just because there are alterations doesn't make the initial baseline similarities untrue.

These are still vauge similarities nonetheless. It shouldn't count at all, Cal is saying how, "Shadow's backstory is literally just Mewtwo's" which is objectively incorrect and I had to break down why those reasons were faulty.

I'm pretty sure Cal, didn't mean that a hundred percent.
 
Godhand1999 said:
Click to expand...
Well, I was merely tackling Cal's point specfically because he's kinda implying Shadow's backstory is the same as Mewtwo's. It kinda comes off as him saying that Shadow is basically Mewtwo and that didn't sit well with me.
Sure, but the differences are still VERY signficant. I would not say that Shadow and Mewtwo have any real similarity with each other because how different their personality, character, ideas, how they were made, and purpose are.

Now I see what's going on. Don't take what Cal said personally. He's always like that with us. He doesn't mean it when he said Shadow is just a carbon copy of Mewtwo. He likes to take jabs at us Sonic fans out of good fun.
 
Jesus lol let's forget this Bayo Metwo and Shadow thing albeit is hilarious and I still think Bayo and Shadow are similar don't kill me but I think the timeline Shake presented with the Sonic upgrades is the best.Along with 1-A Archie Sonic lol
 
Oh, no. I meant that to be personal. I don't like Shadow. Like, not even ironically. Shoulda stayed dead in SA2. He takes the spot from Knuckles and is the epitome of edgy. And to make matters worse he's the strongest reoccurring character so his relevance is nigh-mandatory.


...wait did I forget to use a strikethrough?
 
There's also his razor sharp spikes.

"You regret having created me doctor, i'm gonna send you straight to hell!"
 
Saying a simple cuss word isn't really suppose to mean a character is edgy. If that's the case, then I suppose Professor Farnsworth and Hal Jordan are the edgiest characters in fiction.

@Ultimate that quote can be said by anyone who's badass enough to defeat their archenemy. Shadow saying that line makes him a badass. Not an edgy teen with daddy issues.
 
VioletVoid100 said:
"oof that is maximum edge"

Even though Shadow isn't edgy in any way, shape, or form.
Click to expand...
Honestly folks make Shadow "edgier" than he actually is, after his death in SA2 Sega kept getting requests from "certain" fans to bring Shadow back and to have a game where Sonic uses a weapon (e.g: a gun); the result was Shadow The Hedgehog and we all know how that ended up.

That said I would be lying if I said, I didn't find some enjoyment out of that game "wHeREs THaT dAMn FoURtH cHAoS eMEraLD!" and "fINd ThE cOMpUTeR RoOm" to name a couple examples.
 
VioletVoid100 said:
Saying a simple cuss word isn't really suppose to mean a character is edgy. If that's the case, then I suppose Professor Farnsworth and Hal Jordan are the edgiest characters in fiction.
Click to expand...
Except Professor Farnsworth and Hal Jordan are from franchises that was always a bit more on the mature side. Sonic is video game series that is targeted towards children. So to have a character swear, makes him edgy.

Besides being an edgelord isn't even a bad thing.
 
Yeah, being an edgelord also makes it sweeter when he shows his soft side like recent fanworks and the fourth twitter takeover did.

That combination always works.
 
The funny thing about twitter takeover Shadow is that he fits with headcanons I saw for Shadow.

It makes me think they found them, liked them very much and used them there.
 
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