Sonic (canon) vs The Flash

[Darkness552]

Sonic the Hedgehog

Flash(Wally West)

Flash (Barry Allen)

Sonic has all forms

Round 1: Sonic vs Barry

Round 2: Sonic vs Wally

 

[Quincy_King]

1.Barry

2.Sonic

 

[Davy0]

Coulda just said Game Canon. Archie Sonic is just as much "Canon" as Game Sonic in their perspective universes. They even came out at the relatively same amount of time.

 

[Darkness552]

people know what i mean't

@QK

how does Barry beat Sonic

 

[The_Everlasting]

Round 1: Sonic.

Round 2: Likely Sonic.

 

[Quincy_King]

Steal Speed

 

[Darkness552]

thats wally's technique

 

[Darkness552]

although i do think Darkspine Sonic is universal

 

[Quincy_King]

I thought all Speed force users can use it?

 

[Darkness552]

idk ive never seen Barry Allen do it

even then Sonic does have Chaos Control

 

[Davy0]

Hyper Sonic is the strongest form Sonic has ever taken. And if Darkspine Sonic is Universal or whatever, and it's a weaker transformation than the Chaos Emeralds (can someone get the canon that says this?) - Wouldn't that mean that the Chaos Emeralds are also capable of Universal feats, or am I the only one that sees the implications of this?

 

[Darkness552]

the World Rings were never stated to be weaker than the Chaos Emeralds

 

[Davy0]

Then why do people keep saying they are a weaker source?

 

[Darkness552]

idk

i guess some fan theory that happened

 

[Davy0]

Right...

So why doesn't Sonic get universal reality warping feats if he returns an entire universe back to normal effortlessly? Are we on drugs?

 

[Darkness552]

idk, something about not enough evidence or something like that

 

[Davy0]

... The World Rings "bind the pages of the Arabian Nights' story" book and the book is its own universe. He placed it back to the way it was after the world had been warped by Erazor Djinn's super state. I can't even...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think it comes from the fact that while Erazor and DS Sonic were battling in space (or whatever), the Arabian Nights world only ever showed to be some kind of planet.

 

[Davy0]

That doesn't mean anything, it's considered a "universe" in itself. He still warped it back to normal. It's not a dimension, it's a reality, a parallel universe lodged in a book. It even has its own concept of hell if Sonic's words ring true about there being a "hell".

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Regardless, I feel we cannot consider it to be universal in size simply because it's a separate realm. Even if it is, DS Sonic showed the power to change an entire world back to normal, which is impressive, but we don't know if he affected the entire universe.

 

[Darkness552]

no in the game it showed space and stars

and it had alternate versions of Knuckles and Tails

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Having an alternate Knuckles and Tails does not mean it is the same size as the main universe. Like I said, we see them fighting in space, but Sonic only ever affected the initial planet, which was being warped. I personally don't doubt he's universal, but I feel we need more solid proof to actually place him at that level without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Davy0]

Thank you. Space and stars. There's one showing that it was its own parallel verse. Can someone remove that the World Ring's are a weaker source of power just because Sonic doesn't get Invincibility? And by the way, how does Wally or Bart get past Sonic's invincibility considering he can tank event horizons, blasts from the Jeweled Staff, and things like that?

 

[Davy0]

Having an alternate Knuckles and Tails does not mean it is the same size as the main universe. Like I said, we see them fighting in space, but Sonic only ever affected the initial planet, which was being warped. I personally don't doubt he's universal, but I feel we need more solid proof to actually place him at that level without a shadow of a doubt.

He stated that (Erazor Djinn) that the WORLD RINGS bind the universe of the book together.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And by the way, how does Wally or Bart get past Sonic's invincibility considering he can tank event horizons, blasts from the Jeweled Staff, and things like that?

I don't think Barry can. Wally probably just speed steals. Barry likely gets his ass handed to him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

He stated that (Erazor Djinn) that the WORLD RINGS bind the universe of the book together.

But was he ever shown using them to affect more than just the planet? I haven't played the game in years, so I might have missed something.

 

[Darkness552]

idk if Wally can get past Chaos Control

 

[The_Everlasting]

This seems to be a matter for another thread, so let's get back on topic, 'kay?

 

[Davy0]

I think Sonic reacted to Shadow's movements while in Chaos Control in SA2 commenting that "Wow, he's fast... Wait! It's not his speed he's using the Chaos Emerald to Warp!" after turning his body and seeing exactly where Shadow was after he'd done Chaos Control, even though most would have been confused at what just happened. I think it may be an outlier though.

 

[Davy0]

He stated that (Erazor Djinn) that the WORLD RINGS bind the universe of the book together.

But was he ever shown using them to affect more than just the planet? I haven't played the game in years, so I might have missed something.

They bind the BOOK, the entire universe is within THE BOOK! Common sense, Azathoth man, come on now. If the entire book has the universe where there are celestial bodies, planets, and stars around it, and they are still within the book! It's a universe within itself!

 

[Darkness552]

Chaos Control and affect Time and Space

if Sonic wanted to he could just stop time

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, the World Rings bind the book, and Darkspine and Erazor were both empowered by the rings, but neither demonstrated universal feats. Erazor warped a planet, then Darkspine warped it back. Also, wasn't it stated in the final battle that neither of them received the full power of the rings, as Erazor was "incomplete" and Sonic absorbed the energy afterwards?

 

[Davy0]

You've gotta be kidding me...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Chaos Control and affect Time and Space
if Sonic wanted to he could just stop time

Is this composite Wally and Barry with both Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis feats? If so, I don't think that would matter, as I recall Wally running through time on several occasions. Not sure about Post-Crisis, though.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well, he needed to move in the first place, so I don't think that would work. Also, Barry ran through time to get him and Hal out of the sight of the Black Lantern Rings during Blackest Night.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You've gotta be kidding me...

Like I said. I personally believe he's universal, but I would really like to know if he ever affected more than just the planet throughout the course of the game.

 

[Davy0]

He didn't control time, his speed allowed him to run through time, it doesn't mean that he's immune to effects like Time Stop. On the contrary, isn't one of his greatest rivals capable of time manipulation, doesn't he usually win by Plot-Induced Stupidity?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You mean Zoom? I think. I'm not super familiar with Flash's history. I know Zoom exists outside the flow of time, so he's technically "faster" than speedforce users, but usually loses due to random PIS.

 

[Davy0]

But everything had changed. The universe had changed while they were in space...

 

[Davy0]

Yeah... Zoom... Yeah...