Sonic (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave) vs Paper Mario.

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Yeah Mario is getting blitzed many times over

And sonic has the means to make his durability irrelevant with moves that bypass it

Sonic wins

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Does durability ignoring work when you're above universal on a higher tier? I'm not sure. Anyone mind informing me?

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

It depends on which techniques not by conventional means

In which case sonic has high lvl reality warping to warp Mario into nonexistence.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That MIGHT work. I'm not 100% sure if Sonic's warping is going to stop someone infinitely stronger (as you already know, that's the difference betweeen tiers in tier 2 &1), regardless of how high, but for all I know, it might. Check with a mod, please?

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Actually sonic was able to rewrite history on a "planetary scale" with his reality warping ability. Still not sure if who it will effect someone who is a higher tier

 

[Ddcbryant]

Whats stopping Super Sonic from using chaos control and time stopping everything, not to mention he's immune to reality warping making Paper Mario's Pure Hearts useless.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

It would depend if the pure hearts abilities are only reality warping than its useless but if it has more like spatial manipulation or things like that then idrk though I saw he has time manipulation but on what scale because sonic has both reality warping and time manipulation on a high scale so who every knows what are the full abilities of the pure hearts explain it so I can see who to actually side with here.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

He's immune to (Knuckles) Enerjak reality warp who I recall again is 2-C (assuming) plus mario can stop/slow time as well

 

[Shanks_of_the_red_haired_pirates]

Sonic is faster he can use it before Mario can.

Reality warping bypasses durability regardless and I'm certain planet lvl reality warping wasn't what granted him high lvl either.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Whats stopping Super Sonic from using chaos control and time stopping everything, not to mention he's immune to reality warping making Paper Mario's Pure Hearts useless.

A higher tier.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sonic is faster he can use it before Mario can.
Reality warping bypasses durability regardless and I'm certain planet lvl reality warping wasn't what granted him high lvl either.

You're right about that. It's about skill (for lack of a better word) w/reality warping. Not AP.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Paper Mario still stomps. :3

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Still mario with the pure hearts is powerful since he recreated the multiverse. And that's considered high reality Manipulation (assuming)

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Then Mario wins.

 

[Ddcbryant]

When Paper Mario can react instantly before getting speed blitzed to death, he might have a chance.....

 

[MafiaFox]

Still mario with the pure hearts is powerful since he recreated the multiverse. And that's considered high reality Manipulation (assuming)

I wouldn't consider it and how is he even going to react to sonic?

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Paper Mario has the durability to take at least one of Sonic´s attacks.


The instant Mario uses the pure hearts, Sonic is dead.

 

[Ddcbryant]

Lets not forget, he needed Luigi, Peach, and Bowser to activate the Pure Hearts which is pretty much prep. They're the reason why they won the final battle. Remove them and Mario has to fight for himself.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Lets not forget, he needed Luigi, Peach, and Bowser to activate the Pure Hearts which is pretty much prep. They're the reason why they won the final battle. Remove them and Mario has to fight for himself.

Hmm last i remember, collect the Chaos emeralds requires prep.

 

[MafiaFox]

Lets not forget, he needed Luigi, Peach, and Bowser to activate the Pure Hearts which is pretty much prep. They're the reason why they won the final battle. Remove them and Mario has to fight for himself.

Hmm last i remember, collect the Chaos emeralds requires prep.

Archie sonic usually keeps them near, unless they're stolen I believe, like I said how is he even going to react to sonic? Mario will be frozen in sonic's eyes if he try hards

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

I still think Mario wins, he can endure Sonic long enough,

 

[MafiaFox]

I still think Mario wins, he can endure Sonic long enough,

How is he going to:

1. Touch sonic none the less hit a max power hit

2. outlast a couple multi-universe blows that will undoubtably kill Mario

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

How is he going to:

1. Touch sonic none the less hit a max power hit

2. outlast a couple multi-universe blows that will undoubtably kill Mario

Hmm sonic is 2-C and mario is 2-B multi-verse vs multiverse Mario wins due to higher stats from the pure hearts

 

[Ddcbryant]

Archie Sonic doesn't need the Emeralds to win, since he's really overpowering in base. Mario bringing his friends just to make the Pure Hearts work just means he can't win his own 1-on-1 fight against Sonic. If it was a fair fight. Bring Super Sonic, Chaos Knuckles and Titan Tails.

 

[MafiaFox]

How is he going to:
1. Touch sonic none the less hit a max power hit

2. outlast a couple multi-universe blows that will undoubtably kill Mario

Hmm sonic is 2-C and mario is 2-B multi-verse vs multiverse
Mario wins due to higher stats from the pure hearts

You still haven't answered my question so stop avoiding it, just because he's a higher tier doesn't mean that he wins automatically

How, does, he, hit, sonic, he doesn't have higher stats the only thing he has in the higher stats department is AP and durability and it's not by much

 

[Pikachu942]

2-B is infinitely more than 2-C so yes it is by much actually, and the Pure Hearts are a reality warping type item so they are omnidirectional and can easily hit Sonic. And no he didn't need all his friends to activate them they just activated from the POWER OF LOVE or something.

 

[Ddcbryant]

So just because Mario is only 1 point(2-B) slightly above Sonic 2-C mean's he automatically stronger than Sonic just because of one item that needs the help of his friends for it to actually work?

 

[MafiaFox]

2-B is infinitely more than 2-C so yes it is by much actually, and the Pure Hearts are a reality warping type item so they are omnidirectional and can easily hit Sonic. And no he didn't need all his friends to activate them they just activated from the POWER OF LOVE or something.

even if it's omni directional, how long does it actually take to even activate or have it's effects?

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

So just because Mario is only 1 point(2-B) slightly above Sonic 2-C mean's he automatically stronger than Sonic just because of one item that needs the help of his friends for it to actually work?

One point is a huge leap

 

[Ddcbryant]

2-B is infinitely more than 2-C so yes it is by much actually, and the Pure Hearts are a reality warping type item so they are omnidirectional and can easily hit Sonic. And no he didn't need all his friends to activate them they just activated from the POWER OF LOVE or something.

They were all flashing then the pure hearts activated (Four Heroes Of Light)Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser legendary beings told of in the Light Prognosticus. Yes they did need all four to activate it with the power of love. But the fact still remains he still needed everyone's help for it to work. Without his friends Paper Mario would've lost. So in other words Base Archie Sonic by himself vs Paper Mario by himself. or Archie Super Sonic, Enerjak, Titan Tails, Chaos Knuckles vs The Pure Hearts.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

@Ddcbryant your just babbling, This goes with every character with certain power to stop a evil foe with pure hearts, chaos emeralds, Triforce,etc. Without the chaos emeralds sonic would've lost to Enerjak (knuckles) too. sonic is not the only character. Stop wanking pls.

Mario wins this due to higher AP and Durability and maybe hax. And if you wanna do base battles if would've been SMG mario vs Base pre gen archie sonic. And mario still would've won.

 

[MafiaFox]

@Ddcbryant your just babbling, This goes with every character with certain power to stop a evil foe with pure hearts, chaos emeralds, Triforce,etc.
Without the chaos emeralds sonic would've lost to Enerjak (knuckles) too. sonic is not the only character. Stop wanking pls.

Mario wins this due to higher AP and Durability and maybe hax. And if you wanna do base battles if would've been SMG mario vs Base pre gen archie sonic. And mario still would've won.

>Mario still would've won

Please stop wanking


Btw, he's talking about how the four "pure hearts" were needed to activate the actual characters(peach, luigi, etc.) were needed to be there, unlike Sonic's Chaos Emerald's which he usually keeps on him in the comics I believe, he never needs other characters help to activate them.

 

[Ddcbryant]

@Ddcbryant your just babbling, This goes with every character with certain power to stop a evil foe with pure hearts, chaos emeralds, Triforce,etc. Without the chaos emeralds sonic would've lost to Enerjak (knuckles) too. sonic is not the only character. Stop wanking pls.

Mario wins this due to higher AP and Durability and maybe hax. And if you wanna do base battles if would've been SMG mario vs Base pre gen archie sonic. And mario still would've won.

Exactly, Paper Mario attack and durability can't compare to Archie Sonic's. Using Launch Star MFTL (outside help) lolol is like me saying Sonic needing a Warp or Power Ring which he never uses anymore. And also Mario durabilty taking hits from Bowser who is only Galactic with Grand Star at best I don't remember Mario surviving multiversal punches, since in the Bowser vs wikia his attack Potency is at best Country to Planet level when normal size. Mario attack potency is only multiversal because of outside help Pure Hearts from his friends and enemy. Still Paper Mario and the others will get speed blitz before they do anything. And Mario's reaction with the Star Driver is moderately fast with incoming slow fireballs which can easily be dodged. The Final boss of Asura's Wrath dodging incoming planets was much faster than that lol. In conclusion Paper Mario only wins with the help of everyone by his side and Pure Hearts. By himself he dies a horrible death.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright. I'm going to put in a lot of effort in this...


1. OBVIOUSLY, the Pure hearts are being used. If not it would be a stomp. Why would you think otherwise. Do we assume that Goku doesn't get to use SSJG? Do we assume any other sonic barring this one (tbh, how can he keep them on him at all times? He's not wearing anything to keep them in anyway unless he used hammerspace) can't use Super, Darkspine, Hyper, etc? Do we assume that Mewtwo and Charizard can't use Mega stones? Do we assume Digimon can't Digivolve? That Asriel has to gather souls first? No. Your only arguement is that they need to be together.

2. He's saying base Archie sonic couldn't beat SMG mario. Base Archie is only 4-A while SMG Mario is 3-C, so in a speed equalized match between the two, who would win? Neither. Stalemate due to Sonic's Durability. Regardless, base is nowhere close to Multiversal. Heck, not even Super is multiversal, despite your claims. He's only multi-universal.

3. Ever heard of cinematic timing when it comes to speed? Look at DB for an example.

 

[MafiaFox]

Alright. I'm going to put in a lot of effort in this...


1. OBVIOUSLY, the Pure hearts are being used. If not it would be a stomp. Why would you think otherwise. Do we assume that Goku doesn't get to use SSJG? Do we assume any other sonic barring this one (tbh, how can he keep them on him at all times? He's not wearing anything to keep them in anyway unless he used hammerspace) can't use Super, Darkspine, Hyper, etc? Do we assume that Mewtwo and Charizard can't use Mega stones? Do we assume Digimon can't Digivolve? That Asriel has to gather souls first? No. Your only arguement is that they need to be together.

2. He's saying base Archie sonic couldn't beat SMG mario. Base Archie is only 4-A while SMG Mario is 3-C, so in a speed equalized match between the two, who would win? Neither. Stalemate due to Sonic's Durability. Regardless, base is nowhere close to Multiversal. Heck, not even Super is multiversal, despite your claims. He's only multi-universal.

3. Ever heard of cinematic timing when it comes to speed? Look at DB for an example.

1. Yes, obviously without the pure hearts it's a stomp, I believe he's saying that lugi, peach, etc. were actually needed(the characters not items) so it's "outside help" but I'll ignore that right now

2. He never said speed equalized so that's why I laughed, sonic is to stupid fast in pre-gen that he's faster than wally west and most likely superboy prime so any mario he fights he speed blitzes due to the INSANE speed difference.

3. This wiki rarely ever uses cinematic timing, DB is an exception for some reason so... :/

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's not true though. They're PROPHESIZED to GATHER them. They didn't even create the hearts. An ancient tribe did (creation=destruction on this site), so obviously the heroes of light didn't need to do it then. They weren't even present. Bottom line is the power isn't outside help. That's like saying the Final Fantasy crystals only work with all 4 of the heroes of light.

It would still be a stalemate. And I believe Azathoth is getting his speed downgraded which might make him slower than Wally...barely. But I know that has nothing do do with this.

Mario uses cinematic timing though. Otherwise, we'd listen to Game Theory on the speed/power of Bullet Bills and Mario wouldn't be hypersonic-MHS+ (I don't feel like abandoning this post for clarification) for dodging cannons and bullets.

And finally, the rant wasn't meant to offend you. Most of it was to the other guy.

 

[MafiaFox]

That's not true though. They're PROPHESIZED to GATHER them. They didn't even create the hearts. An ancient tribe did (creation=destruction on this site), so obviously the heroes of light didn't need to do it then. They weren't even present. Bottom line is the power isn't outside help. That's like saying the Final Fantasy crystals only work with all 4 of the heroes of light.
It would still be a stalemate. And I believe Azathoth is getting his speed downgraded which might make him slower than Wally...barely. But I know that has nothing do do with this.

Mario uses cinematic timing though. Otherwise, we'd listen to Game Theory on the speed/power of Bullet Bills and Mario wouldn't be hypersonic-MHS+ (I don't feel like abandoning this post for clarification) for dodging cannons and bullets.

And finally, the rant wasn't meant to offend you. Most of it was to the other guy.

It didn't offend me at all! All of this is a friendly debate

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I wonder when he said mario vs archie sonic does that mean he's gets crystal stars, Star Rod, etc.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It didn't offend me at all! All of this is a friendly debate

Aight. Cool. Glad to know we're cool.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

so we all agree mario wins against pre-genesis?