Son Goku vs. Saitama

[Huesito88]

Lol Vegeta going great ape didn't make him slower

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lol Vegeta going great ape didn't make him slower

Tfw that's so obvious that even TFS referenced it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Lol Vegeta going great ape didn't make him slower

Vegeta got 10x stronger by going Great Ape, but he's only barley able to match a heavily tired Goku's speed, and was only able to catch him while Goku was standing still, charging up the Spirit Bomb.

He didn't get slower per say, but since he's so big, he's seemingly not able to move as fast as he did in base.

Vegeta was blitzing a Goku who wasn't heavily exhausted by Kaio-ken.

 

[Huesito88]

In the manga goku needed to use kaio ken to dodge great ape vegeta attacks, goku (no kaio-ken) only dodged one punch from vegeta (this is the first attack great ape vegeta made) and then vegeta kicked him right after he dodged that. Goku even said I didn't think you could be this fast

 

[Kaltias]

Goku keeps blitzing doing no damage at all until he is too tired to use Kaioken x4. Then Saitama hits him once and wins

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Voting Saitama for Kaltias's reasons.

 

[Warren_Valion]

In the manga goku needed to use kaio ken to dodge vegeta attacks, goku (no kaio-ken) only dodged one punch from vegeta and then vegeta kicked him right after he dodged that. Goku even said I didn't think you could be this fast

Do you know how big a ten times difference of strength is in Dragon Ball?

Goku, who is heavily weakened by using Kaio-Ken x4, was able to effectively dodge Vegeta as a Great Ape. Vegeta as a Great Ape isn't slow, but he should be monumentally faster than Goku, even with Kaio-Ken, as a Great Ape.

This makes it possible for us to understand that Vegeta is more than ten times stronger than Goku, but is being slowed down do to his large size.

 

[Huesito88]

I just told you everything from the manga nothing suggest vegeta got slower there. Infact I want to know where the 10 times stronger came from

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

So, we're just going to assume that Vegeta got slower without anything to prove it?

 

[Huesito88]

/\

 

[Steel_Justice]

Blitz + Versatility + Taiyoken + kamehameha with kaioken x4 = R.I.P. Saitama.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

me during this whole thing:

 

[Warren_Valion]

I just told you everything from the manga nothing suggest vegeta got slower there

Are you joking?

Vegeta would blitz Goku if he was at least ten times faster than Goku in his Great Ape form, even if Goku used Kaio-Ken x4 constantly, there is an astronomically difference in their power levels even with Kaio-Ken.

Vegeta is 5.6x stronger as a Great Ape than Goku using Kaio-Ken x4.

The reason we know that Vegeta got slowed down as a Great Ape is because he is comparable, but still slower, than a weakened Goku using Kaio-Ken to avoid him.

Why is this hard for you to understand?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Although Kaltias has a point, Goku's AP may not be enough to actually damage Saitama due to that durability, since Goku is baseline. Maybe he could Kamehameha him into orbit or something like that? I don't know.

 

[Kaltias]

It isn't like it's that important anyway. Saitama completely no selled a 5-B attack, correct? So anything lower or equal (aka up to Kaioken x 3) would do nothing. This means that Goku NEEDS to use Kaioken x 4, which at best would do minimal damage, being only 33% stronger than attacks that do nothing to Saitama. Goku uses Kaioken x 4, attacks once incapacitating himself and Saitama doesn't die. At this point he is back to Low 5-B and he is almost unable to move against a guy who stomps 5-B's.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Blitz + Versatility + Taiyoken + kamehameha with kaioken x4 = R.I.P. Saitama.

That would be the case if kaioken x4 would actually be able to hurt him all that much. Saitama casually stomps baseline planet level characters and that's exactly what Goku is at this point. kamahameha might be able to hurt him and goku has the speed advantage but as soon as Goku tires out which he will due to how much of a strain kaioken x4 puts on his body Saitama blows him to bits. Goku's only real chance is to punch him into space.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Infact I want to know where the 10 times stronger came from

The Great Ape transformation makes you ten times stronger.

This comes from the Daizenshuu (IIRC), the same book that states the Super Saiyan multipliers as well.

 

[Huesito88]

Goku with Kaio ken only dodged one attack as well from great ape vegeta before getting punched. Why didn't vegeta just level the area to kill goku? Because he wanted to torture him

 

[Kaltias]

Also yes, sending him in space would probably work, but Goku doesn't do that on purpose, sending Vegeta away happened simply because he was above him during the beam clash.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Ok then, I guess Saitama wins for the reasons above.

 

[Warren_Valion]

In the manga goku needed to use kaio ken to dodge great ape vegeta attacks, goku (no kaio-ken) only dodged one punch from vegeta (this is the first attack great ape vegeta made) and then vegeta kicked him right after he dodged that. Goku even said I didn't think you could be this fast Goku with Kaio ke only dodged one attack as well from great ape vegeta before getting punched. Why didn't vegeta just level the area to kill goku? Because he want to torture him

You just reversed your statements.

Also, I never asked that question, nor implied it, so why'd you answer it?

 

[Huesito88]

I didn't reverse it. Goku without kaio ken could only dodge the opening attack from great ape vegeta, which was clearly vegeta just baiting goku so he can kick him right after. Goku went kaio ken to dodge one of vegetas attacks before vegeta punched him. To show you goku wasn't just dodging almost every attack from great ape vegeta. Also the ssj multiplers aren't accepted here and since vegeta is still rated planet level in great ape form that means it isn't accepted either because if it was he would be planet level+

 

[Kaltias]

Now that i think about it, Saitama's serious punch is probably already a bit stronger than Goku's Kaioken x 4.

Kaioken x 4 = Overpowered a planet busting attack and gravely injured a 5-B.

Serious Punch = Overpowered a planet busting attack and killed a 5-B.

And Boros noted that he was holding back so Saitama >>>> serious punch.

 

[Steel_Justice]

That shows that Vegeta is much more durable, which is correct, as Boros is his last form was ripped apart by the Casual blows of Saitama.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I didn't reverse it. Goku without kaio ken could only dodge the opening attack from great ape vegeta, which was clearly vegeta just baiting goku so he can kick him right after. Goku went kaio ken to dodge one of vegetas attacks before vegeta punched him. To show you goku wasn't just dodging almost every attack from great ape vegeta. Also the ssj multiplers aren't accepted here and since vegeta is still rated planet level in great ape form that means it isn't accepted either because if it was he would be planet level+

Here's the link to the fight: http://*********.com/Manga/Dragon-Ball/Chapter-233?id=260819

1. Vegeta says himself he got ten times stronger than before, though I admit I don't know how accurate this translation is.

2. You clearly don't remember the fight all that well because Vegeta punched at Goku, but Goku used Kaio-Ken, the level of Kaio-Ken is most likely times two (a level of Kaio-Ken that Vegeta was able to blitz normally so it shouldn't be that shocking that he could hit Goku), to dodge that punch, and then Vegeta hit Goku with his tail.

3. Are you absolutely sure that the Super Saiyan multipliers aren't used here?

 

[Kaltias]

@Steel

No? It shows that Saitama is stronger than Goku. Especially when Vegeta has 0 feats of tanking 5-B attacks effortlessly (at the time of the Saiyan saga)

 

[Huesito88]

2 I had the manga up the whole time sooooo....

3 yes the ssj multipler give a even stronger rating but aren't times 50, times 2, times 4

So basically the 10 times isn't accepted either cause if it was vegeta would be planet level+

 

[Paladinporter]

Goku for reasons above.

 

[Seventy96]

Saitama one punch Goku because he is ONE PUNCH MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

 

[AKM sama]

Goku needs kaioken x4 to counter a planetary attack which ends up damaging his body to the point he can't even fight anymore.

While Saitama, getting just a little serious obliterated a planet level attack and was completely fine after that.

Saitama lacks speed, but he clearly has the AP and dura advantage. Goku would have to ultimately resort to kaioken x4 to even bother Saitama, just to become completely irrelevant after that.

Saitama wins by doing nothing. Or at most, a casual punch. He is the ONE PUNCH MAN after all lol

 

[Warren_Valion]

2 I had the manga up the whole time sooooo....
3 yes the ssj multipler give a even stronger rating but aren't times 50, times 2, times 4

So basically the 10 times isn't accepted cause if it was vegeta would be planet level+

1. If you had the manga up the whole time, then it means you can't read properly, because you described a few actions of the fight incorrectly this entire time, like saying Goku used Kaio-Ken to dodge Vegeta, and then was punched by him when it actuality Goku dodge a punch from Vegeta and got hit by Vegeta's tail.

2. Super Saiyan has to be around 50 times stronger than base because Frieza at half power was able to brush off a Kaio-Ken times 20 Kamehameha, and Super Saiyan Goku beat the shit out of Frieza. Super Saiyan 2 and 3's multipliers are unfounded, but they are seemingly accurate, and is there a note or a thread where it was stated that the Super Saiyan multipliers aren't used here?

3. And Vegeta's page says he's higher as a Great Ape with a 5-B base, so he very well could be rated Planet level+

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

If we don't use the SSJ multipliers, I don't think we should use a great ape multiplier that comes from the same source.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

What's the vote count?

 

[AKM sama]

Since we are talking about the multipliers, Akira Toriyama did say in an interview that it is indeed x50 for ssj1. IIRC Herms covered it in kanzenshuu.

 

[Huesito88]

1. I didn't see it was his tail oops it's not like I was making up stuff =P

2. It's been like that for a year or 2. You can make a question and answer thread to double check if you don't believe me,

3. Being possibly higher then what he was doesn't mean planet level+

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Since we are talking about the multipliers, Akira Toriyama did say in an interview that it is indeed x50 for ssj1. IIRC Herms covered it in kanzenshuu.

We were just talking about the fact that we don't use the mulitpliers so I'm not sure how that helps at all.

 

[Warren_Valion]

1. I didn't see it was his tail oops it's not like I was makeup stuff =P
2. It's been like that for a year or 2. You can make a question and answer thread to double check if you don't believe me,

3. Being possibly higher then what he was doesn't mean planet level+

It just higher, not possibly higher, and it very well means he could be.

And IIRC destroying Gas giants like Jupiter are required for Planet level+ tier, and (again IIRC) isn't Jupiter a lot bigger than just ten times the size of Earth?

 

[Huesito88]

No it doesn't that just means he is a higher rating of planet level but to a unknown degree. But higher doesn't mean planet level+ (which is I think 8 times higher then baseline planet level)

Destroying Jupiter is large planet level

 

[Seventy96]

Goku FRA

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Saitama wins because he casual one shots baseline planet level and is likely higher Goku is baseline planet level and possibly higher.