Son Goku vs Rayquaza

[Kaltias]

Isn't KKx2 the one that double his power?

 

[Kepekley23]

Chapter: 229 (DBZ 35), P1.1

Narrator: "Vegeta's strength has greatly surpassed what Goku had figured on...! That power was such that not even the Kaio-Ken, which doubled Goku's battle power, could give Goku the upper hand... What will you do?! Goku!!"

Before you ask, this was a full ten pages before Goku used KKx2, so the Narrator is definitely talking about the normal Kaioken.

 

[Cropfist]

Ray for above reasons.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Goku is at least four times Piccolo from begining of story in base, considering Krillin could kill four saibamen at the same time, and still couldn't do jack to Nappa, which Goku is at least equal to. His AP advantage is quite significant.

 

[FTW395]

@Kepekley23 that's because Goku outright states he's using "double kaioken" against Vegeta.

 

[Kepekley23]

@FTW

That was already explained. The Narrator's statement was ten pages before Goku used the KKx2.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Tfw KKx2 is just KK with double the self-harm.

 

[Kepekley23]

Or so it seems.

 

[Therefir]

Goku for reasons above.

 

[Amexim]

Either way, Goku has superior AP

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Tbh idk why people are going Goku here. Goku barely has any AP advantage. 276 vs 239 isn't an instawin gap. Both have forms of stat amp, but Goku's stat amp harms him.

 

[Kepekley23]

You could argue that Base Goku is at least four times Raditz based off Krillin (who is 1,770) killing four Saibamen with a ki blast, and then multiply that by his Kaioken.

Either way, Goku does have an AP advantage. 276 zettatons vs 239 is basically a Venus-buster of an advantage. That is pretty respectable.

 

[Huesito88]

that's Goku when he fought Raditz not when he fought vegeta

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kep

As a calc member you know that statement to be wrong. The difference between 10^40 joules and 1.1x10^40 joules is an absolutely massive amount of raw energy, but it still within the 90th percentile of the difference between the two amounts. 239 is 86.6% of 276. Real life fighters deal with such minute power differences regularly, but the fight is still fair.

 

[Therefir]

@Assaltwaffle Base Goku should be way stronger than Piccolo.

 

[PaChi2]

Goku wins, it seems.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Assalt

A difference like that is still respectable, and enough to be labelled as an "AP advantage". Given the fact that both fighters are straightforward characters with little to no hax, it's one of our only benchmarks (other than the fatigue the Kaioken generates)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

A difference of 1.15 isn't "respectable", no.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well fair enough, though I think that the fatigue combined with Rayquaza's versatile moveset still gives him a good advantage over Goku, even if being struck really hurts. It isn't to cripple him in one go.

 

[Kepekley23]

When it's one of three possible parameters...yes, it kinda is.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Goku is at least four times Piccolo from begining of story in base, considering Krillin could kill four saibamen at the same time, and still couldn't do jack to Nappa, which Goku is at least equal to. His AP advantage is quite significant.

 

[FTW395]

@Lephyr when you formulate it like that, it definitely is a respectable AP advantage.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Oh so Goku isn't 276, Piccolo is 276, who is weaker than Raditz, who is weaker than Krillin, who is weaker than Napa, who is weaker than Goku. Yeah I think Goku's AP is pretty darn high with that explained.

I thought Goku's number was the 276.

 

[ZeedMillenniummon89]

Rayquaza FRA

 

[Kepekley23]

Piccolo is 70 zettatons actually. His logic is that Krillin is 4x Raditz, since he could kill 4 Raditz-level fighters.

 

[Amexim]

Piccolo (who we low-ball Goku to being) x 4 via KK is 276. And that should be weaker than Goku's true base form with KKx4

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Wait... so Piccolo is only 70 and Goku at KK is 276? This is getting more confusing...

 

[FTW395]

Piccolo blasted Raditz with a ki blast that was probably as strong as the one he shot to destroy the moon. That Ki blast did nothing to Raditz, meaning the AP difference between Moon blasting Piccolo and Raditz is more than respectable enough. Next thing we have Krillen who one-shotted Raditz level fighters with his blast, that same blast didn't do anything to Nappa. Meaning the AP difference between Nappa and Krillen/Raditz is also more than respectable enough. Now enter Goku who's about the same level as Nappa, stack KaioKenx4 on it and you should get a more than respectable enough AP difference.

 

[Therefir]

Piccolo is 70 zettatons, assuming that base Goku is not stronger than Piccolo, Goku Kk ×4 is 276.

 

[Akreious]

I'm voting Goku. What people don't get is Goku is unquantifiable WAY superior to the Piccolo that did the moon busting. Goku isn't "just baseline" here, he's unquantifiably MUCH HIGHER (enough that if this Goku and moon busting Piccolo fought, it'd be a stomp). I don't get all the "oh he's ONLY baseline!" When he is MANY TIMES superior to a character that IS baseline.

 

[AKM sama]

So the common consensus seems to be that Goku is unquantifiably superior here.