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Someone talk about Drakengard pages?

TheAngryOrange

453
208
I'm looking at you random helper.
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TheAngryOrange/sandbox

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This sandbox has what will be the verse page for drakengard. Caim, Angelus and Manah evidently already have existing character pages. I don'tk now anything about darkengard so the creation fo character pages has to be up to you.


Personally I intend to do some polishing on my Scarlet Nexus pages. Plus I have some Nier abilities I'd like to add and some supporting calculations to get approved.
 
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Okay, I'll look that over. Magic (not technology though) from Nier scales to Drakengard and innate common magic abilities should mostly scale between them.
 
Well in terms of levels they are pretty much identical to the Nier ones coincidentally. What magic abilities do you think should be carried over? I've been thinking about tossing some new abilities/clarifications on some of the Nier pages and can include them in the proposal.
 
I'll have to go back over my old notes comments and notes. Back then I was waiting for Tony to do something with it, which is a bit like waiting for time to end. Off the top of my head, there is...

Extrasensory Perception: Many characters have displayed an ability to detect things approaching. Angelus detected Manah and the sky fortress in the first game, and Manah consistently detects Caim's presence whenever he's nearby. Urick also detects Yaha's presence including how far away he is, and Legna detects two undead knights who appear on the other end of a field obscured in fog. Manah also detects the presence of a seal or "key" near her, a seal being a magic artifact.

Non-physical Interaction: the undead soldiers in Drakengard 2 are souls inhabiting suits of armour. When they take damage, the souls often leave the armour, and killing them requires killing the soul. These souls are able to pass through the player and other NPC's, but the player can still hit them. This holds true regardless of which character is being played as, between Manah, Nowe who is part dragon, Urick who is a pact-partner, and Eris who is a future goddess of the seal. In other words, pretty much every notably magically-inclined being in Drakengard can kill those souls.

Necromancy/soul manipulation: Manah was able to raise thousands of dead empire soldiers as skeletons, and later Angelus did the same with union soldiers.

Some kind of influence over monsters: Manah was able to influence thousands of monsters of all kinds to join the empire army, and later Angelus was able to either bring in or perhaps even summon hundreds of goblins to defend herself at the same time as she raised the aforementioned undead.

Telekinesis: Manah wields her staff by dynamically switching it between her hands and also moving it in mid-air without touching it, in a way that clearly requires telekinesis.

Resistance to magic: Manah specifically resists one of Yaha's traps due to her own magic abilities. Urick for his part was resistant to another trap.

Resistance to illusions: Manah was able to detect that something was wrong when she passed an illusionary wall in Yaha's fortress. Yaha also possessed an ability to manipulate minds, which Urick was unaffected by, and which Nowe and Manah are at least a little resistant to. Manah also had mind manipulation abilities, which Caim was immune to.

There are more, which I'll go look into.

So you're planning to make a Drakengard verse page? I got the impression you couldn't see the rest of the verse past 2B's behind. Although you definitely are motivated, which is more than I can say for sleepy Tony.
 
Should we prepare these in a proposal before or after the drakengard pages are created? Some of these do exist already just in different manners so it'll warrant discussions.

Yeah, I would tackle the drakengard verse myself but I'm afraid I don't know anything about it. I only lwatched a single playthrough of Drakengard 3 on youtube. Also, I often consult the broader nier community in regards to power and I find myself usually at odds with them regarding the power of say, the Intoners. Something that often gets brought up about them is their title as gods while I find titles of gods to be rather overrated.
 
TheAngryOrange said:
Should we prepare these in a proposal before or after the drakengard pages are created? Some of these do exist already just in different manners so it'll warrant discussions.
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I have noticed that some of them are present in Automata, but this just serves as further support for them.
TheAngryOrange said:
Yeah, I would tackle the drakengard verse myself but I'm afraid I don't know anything about it. I only lwatched a single playthrough of Drakengard 3 on youtube.
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I finished Drakengard 1 and 2, and have several novels connected to them. It seems I'm one of the five people who finished Drakengard 2.
TheAngryOrange said:
Also, I often consult the broader nier community in regards to power and I find myself usually at odds with them regarding the power of say, the Intoners. Something that often gets brought up about them is their title as gods while I find titles of gods to be rather overrated.
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In all honesty, I agree with you there. We can directly compare the Intoners to human characters in Drakengard 1 and 2, and the scaling isn't as clear cut as people seem to think. Zero and the other Intoners couldn't break free of the influence of the flower and God, whereas Manah absorbed the Bone Casket and basically became the dominant one in that relationship. Zero and Mikhail together couldn't beat a Wyrm (the weird dragon that almost killed them and the ********* died to stop it), Angelus and Caim killed one easily. In fact, Angelus called it "the" Wyrm, suggesting that the one they killed was higher in the hierarchy. It isn't anywhere near as clear cut as people think, the comparison of Intoners with high level dragons and beings of the sort like Caim, Manah, Angelus, Nowe, etc.

Actually, there are other abilities. I'll look up my old post detailing them. I listed it for Tony but I didn't have the Pokeflute to wake him up with, so nothing happened.
 
This is my earlier post.

Extrasensory Perception: This ability is demonstrated multiple times. Most clearly is the time in Drakengard 2 when Manah states that she senses the power of a key nearby, and her ability to always know when Caim is anywhere near her. This ability is also shown in Drakengard 1, most clearly in the prelude to endings 4 and 5 when Leonard states that he senses a powerful enemy nearby and realises it's Manah, and also when the Union wins the battle on the big field and Angelus warns Caim that something evil is coming. Legna also says early in Drakengard 2 that he senses a formidable foe when an undead knight appears. With this ability being so universal, an argument could easily be made for everyone who has magic possessing some form of it. Given that this ability is an answer to stealth, it's useful. It's probably part of where the pods get that ability to detect hostile machines nearby.

Resistance to Possession: In endings 2 and 3 in Drakengard 2, Manah is attacked by the Bone Casket which intends to possess her and use her, presumably something similar to the flower using the Intoners. Depending on how strong Manah is, she resists it to different extents. In ending 2 she gets possessed by it briefly and then succeeds in destroying it from within along with herself, after projecting her voice outwards to say her final words to Nowe and Legna. In ending 3 she straight up absorbs it, overpowering it.

Power Bestowal: In Drakengard 2, ending 3, Nowe states that he can sense Manah, and that her power is energising him.

Exorcism: Nowe is able to forcibly remove God's influence from Manah's mind without harming her. Caim and Angelus also removed its influence from her, but they achieved it far more violently. The creature possessing Manah is somewhat ambiguous, but the fact that it claims to "create and rule above all" indicates it is likely God himself. This meshes well with 2B's statement that she wonders if she'll ever be able to kill the God that cursed the world with such an existence.

Immersion: Nowe literally enters Manah's mind to banish the possessing entity. It is unknown if this was achieved using Nowe's power or Manah's or both, but it happened. Interestingly, one of the backgrounds looks like blood vessels, and Nowe says to her that he's sorry, and that it might hurt, but he has to do what he's doing, indicating a possible ability to physically harm her brain or mind from there.

Telekinesis: Manah uses her staff in battle by moving it around telekinetically. This ability is in her profile, but her use of it to control her weapon is not.

Resistance to Magic: Manah is able to walk through Yaha's trap room which contains magic lightning thundering through it. Nowe and Urick get hit over and over if they go through, whereas Manah doesn't. The game even states "only those with powerful magic" can go through.

Necromancy: Manah and other mages are able to resurrect undead to fight for them. Even Angelus seems to have this power, since in Drakengard 2 Nowe states that Angelus seems to be controlling the movements of an undead knight. Granted he might be wrong; those undead were likely Union soldiers who would of course protect Caim and Angelus. However, we do know that knights were guarding the same place earlier, and were bored because nothing was happening. What's more, Angelus sprayed fire through the whole castle when she woke up. This proves the undead weren't there until after that, indicating it was indeed Angelus who raised them.

Reactive Evolution (Dragons and Nowe): The dragons evolve into stronger forms when the situation becomes more dangerous. Nowe also demonstrates this ability when he turns into the New Breed, and when his powers keep growing the more he fights.

Accelerated Development (Nowe): Nowe is able to grow stronger in a matter of a day or so, going from fighting Gismor evenly to easily overwhelming him, likely due to fighting Caim, who is stronger than Gismor, in between the fights. Nowe literally seems to adapt to the strength of his enemy, having grown to match Caim and thus leaving Gismor outmatched. His first fight with Gismor (he was allied with Urick as well) and his fight with Caim (alone) happened mere hours apart. It should be noted that Nowe combines abilities from multiple sources; he was formed by the Bone Casket (God's power, similar to Intoners) out of a being who carried a Goddess seal (human magic to counter God) and another who was in a pact with a holy dragon (dragon and holy dragon powers). He and Caim also stand as the only two characters to have defeated some of the strongest dragons, a feat even Zero seemed incapable of. Interestingly, Caim and Angelus also defeated a Wyrm seemingly without too much trouble, something Zero and Mikhail needed to be rescued from.

Regeneration (Gismor): Gismor regrew or reattached his arm after Nowe cut it off. Gismor is a pact partner whose pact is annoyingly vague, but it doesn't seem as if he should have anything Nowe and others don't have. There is also the fact that Caim and Angelus were fatally wounded before they made their pact, but after the pact the wounds instantly heal.

Limited Resistance to Illusions: Yaha casts an illusion that makes his fortress seem to have a wall blocking the main passageway, and when Manah walks past the illusionary wall she says something isn't quite right about the fortress. In addition, Yaha is able to hypnotise people by looking into their eyes, and Urick is seemingly resistant to it.
 
Here, I propose this. You and whoever else would like Drakengard profiles give the approval on the drakengard franchise page in my sandbox. Then I can toss that page up. After that, as new drakengard pages get made, it's just a matter of making sure the links point to them.
 
TheAngryOrange said:
Here, I propose this. You and whoever else would like Drakengard profiles give the approval on the drakengard franchise page in my sandbox. Then I can toss that page up. After that, as new drakengard pages get made, it's just a matter of making sure the links point to them.
Click to expand...
Fair, although getting some hard working staff to oversee like DarkDragonMedeus might help. First off, on that page, several characters don't need pages here. The existing ones are needed, and in addition we should probably have one for Zero, Mikhail, Nowe, Legna and maybe Gismor and Urick.

Second, the layout you have separates them by game appearance, when they should be listed in factions/type of being.
 
Random Helper is making a lot of sense. And the verse page draft in the Sandbox is looking good but of course the character down below needs work.
 
I would say the Disciples don't need pages, and the only Intoners who do are Zero and the One's.

For tiering, it's best to start with the simple stuff. We currently have a feat for Manah, which Caim scales above.

Nowe and Urick both directly fight Caim, although both lost, so they both scale to the feat. Nowe and Urick together were able to beat Gismor, but Gismor grew stronger afterwards and he singled out Nowe as the one who had beaten him. So I'd say Nowe and Gismor were both above Urick at that point, and Urick had already challenged a half-serious Caim.

So Urick and Gismor downscale, and Nowe scales directly since he and Caim were almost a draw. Legna was stronger than Nowe at that point, so he scales to Caim and Angelus. I'd honestly still place Caim and Angelus higher though, since Angelus was still a match for Nowe and Legna even though it was repeatedly stated that her power was still not at its full capacity due to her 18 years of confinement and torture.

The D3 characters can probably be scaled there too based on the Wyrm.
 
Alright changes made. Though I'm curious why not the other intoners. I mean Zero I get since she was the protagonist. But why One but not the others?

As for the scalilng, yeah, since I don't really know the verse all that is Greek to me. All I got is that the humans scale to humans and dragons scale to dragons. But since often times the humans and the dragons fight one on one, they'd end up scaling to each other anyways.
 
Also, how does the Zero page look? Considered adding her moves but frankly there doesn't seem to be anything special about them. Also considered showcasing her weapons bt don't know how.
 
All the other Intoners were just sub-bosses. Arguably One doesn't need a page either, but she is the main antagonist.

For the scaling, basically Manah's feat scales to all of the main cast in one form or another. Although Caim and Angelus are the strongest, since they beat Manah's full power while Legna and Nowe weren't able to. Manah's feat is an extremely casual and constant one though, so she is actually above it too.
 
Alright going for one more round. If it all checks out I'd like to toss up the Drakengard page and the Zero page. And the One page by extension since it'd be identical to Zero's.
 
One thing at a time. If they have pictures I'll see that they get profiles. For now I'd like to get these three up first.

Also, it should be noted I don't know anything about Nowe and Legna. Even if they do just inherit most of ratings and powers and abilities from Caim I still feel unsure about having me make their profiles.

Mikhail is a different story since I've at least watched a playthrough of D3. Same with Michael. Then there's Accord.

Would there be any sort of scaling from the Nier verse through Accord? Namely Accord scales to the Nier verse. Accord was fast enough and strong enough to pin One and squishy enough Zero's attack went through her and into One. And hence the Intoners get scaled as well.

I'm leaning on the side of no and frankly I hate scaling chains like that. But I'll throw it out there as an idea.
 
I was about to toss up the Zero page but held off because I wanted to check a few things. Interestingly it seems there used to be one and it was deleted. Wish I could've seen what was on it.
Anyways, I held off as when I was proofreading I had questions regarding her regeneration.

How should we mark it? I had low mid but I realized it should be higher. In a cutscene her arm gets cut off. In the next cutscene it's back on meaning she either reattached it or grew it back. Leaving either high low or low mid.

But there is a possibility it is even higher. The Flower bringing Zero back is referred to as regeneration. Which makes me wonder what the difference is between regeneration and resurrection. Or can resurrection be achieved via regeneration?

And if we count that as regeneration, would that be low-godly as the Flower makes a completely new body from nothing? I mean, considering the Flower made five other intoners from scratch it wouldn't be beyond the possibility.
 
Found the cutscene. Marking it here for reference if I need to find it again.


51:30 Zero gets her arm cut off and reattaches it
1:30:35 Zero regeneration


And another regeneration.

Alright, reading the immortality page, there is immortality via regen so I'll mark Zero as immortality type 1, 2, &3.

But what should Zero get. At minimum high low since she can reattach her limb. But would she get low godly since the flower will reconstruct her entire body?

Also to note, One will probably only get 1&2 as if they try 3 they turn into a zombie with only high low . Or should I mark 3 and high low then list zombification as a weakness?
 
Alright, after reading about Drakengard lore I'm going with High-low and sticking the rest under Resurrection & Immortality (1,2,3&4).

( There was this bit in the regen page

"Statements or feats of regeneration in which characters are able to survive as long as a part of their existence, such as their souls or minds, remain intact, or that involve the regeneration of a non-physical aspect of the body while the body itself remains intact, do not warrant godly levels of regeneration due to involving resurrection rather than the complete destruction and reforming of both the physical and non-physical aspects of a body, which is a fundamental requirement to qualify. "
)

If there are no protests, I shall toss these up then move onto the next batch of characters.
 
I think we'd have to get a calc group member here to redo the calculation, but yeah, a cloud parting feat performed by the Sky Fortress' weapons does scale to Caim and all the rest of the characters who scale to him.
 
Good thing I didn't put the One page up. Apparently that forum calc I copied from the Caim page is no bueno. Didn't exactly peek inside to see what it entails so it might mess with ratings and what not. I've asked for time to transcribe the calcs onto a blog so I can get them evaluated but we're gonna have to nix the forum link.
 
Well shit. Went to transcribe it but both calculations are missing the demonstration of the feat in action.

What now? Just nix the island stuff?
 
TheAngryOrange said:
Well shit. Went to transcribe it but both calculations are missing the demonstration of the feat in action.

What now? Just nix the island stuff?
Click to expand...
For now. Better to put the pages together first and focus on upgrades later. If we can get the making of the pages approved, and someone can provide the images, I can put in all the information for the pages for Drakengard 1 and 2, and a fair bit for 3.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
For now. Better to put the pages together first and focus on upgrades later. If we can get the making of the pages approved, and someone can provide the images, I can put in all the information for the pages for Drakengard 1 and 2, and a fair bit for 3.
Click to expand...
Alright. One and Mikhail are up next. I'll stick to the mountain stuff for them since those are vsbattle blogs. But what about Caim, Angelus, and Zero then? Leave the Island stuff as it is? Or remove it for the time being and we can stick it back on once everything has been squared away?
 
TheAngryOrange said:
Alright. One and Mikhail are up next. I'll stick to the mountain stuff for them since those are vsbattle blogs. But what about Caim, Angelus, and Zero then? Leave the Island stuff as it is? Or remove it for the time being and we can stick it back on once everything has been squared away?
Click to expand...
Wait, you edited the pages without a revision thread? If you did, revert that.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Wait, you edited the pages without a revision thread? If you did, revert that.
Click to expand...
No, I just tossed up the Zero page. And since she scales to Caim I copied his island stuff as well. When I toss up Mikhail and One I'll leave out the island calcs until we can get them approved but they still exist on Caim, Angelus (the ones that already existed), and now the Zero page (the one I just put up). So it's like what do we do with the existing ones?

As far as I know you and I are the only ones working on the Drakengard stuff. We gonna make the world's smallest CRT thread to temporarily remove the island stuff? Leave it as it is until new calcs can be made?
 
TheAngryOrange said:
No, I just tossed up the Zero page. And since she scales to Caim I copied his island stuff as well. When I toss up Mikhail and One I'll leave out the island calcs until we can get them approved but they still exist on Caim, Angelus (the ones that already existed), and now the Zero page (the one I just put up). So it's like what do we do with the existing ones?

As far as I know you and I are the only ones working on the Drakengard stuff. We gonna make the world's smallest CRT thread to temporarily remove the island stuff? Leave it as it is until new calcs can be made?
Click to expand...
Drakengard is currently scaled based on Manah's Sky Fortress feat, isn't it?
 
Not sure if it was mentioned, but would Zero’s LS not also scale to whoever lifted the fortress since she’s already scaling to the ap?
 
Sounds reasonable enough. What do you think Random? You know more about the verse than I do.

Speaking of which, I filled out One's profile in the sandbox as well as made Mikhail's and Michael's (looking for feedback). And with them that's the last of the characters I know. Except for maybe Accord who is lacking combat abilities. Maybe speed for tripping up Zero but that's it.

Also, while making the profiles I realized that Caim dodging lightning for the speed rating is also from the naruto site so that also needs replaced.
 
I think the Wiki still uses Narutoforums calculations, but I guess we can try to wake up a calc group member long enough to redo the calculations. I'll bring the PokeFlute and the train horn.

And yes, Zero should scale to D1 Manah's lifting strength. It's possible D2 ending 3 Manah is superior given her ability to absorb the Bone Casket in contrast to Zero being powerless against the flower, but it' d be comparable either way.
 
Well I've definitely seen some profiles with links out to narutoforums. I'm guessing it used to be accepted then the rules changed. Either that or people managed to sneak them in. Whatever the case, after I threw up Zero's page, Ant messaged me saying that they weren't allwoed and I could only use calcs accepted here.

"And you are not allowed to link to Narutoforums calculations as evidence for statistics. You need to use accepted calculation blogs in this wiki instead."


ALso going for another pass for the One, Michael, and Mikhail. I've updated the lifting strength. If no complaints I'll toss them up as well.
 
Fair enough. Afterwards we can revise the existing pages to fix those calculations not being usable, and then later we can try to redo it. Adding the new pages comes first, and then I can do a general fixer-upper of the pages for 1 and 2, and 3 to an extent.
 
I htink I've waited long enough. If nobody has protests I'll toss up Michael, Mikhail, and One. And that'll be all the characters I know from Drakengard.

Also, was there a Drakengard CRT I was unaware of? Somebody be doing some weird shit with the Zero profile.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Zero (Drakengard)

Zero, formerly named Rose prior to obtaining the power of song, is the main protagonist of Drakengard 3. She is an Intoner, one who is gifted with the ability to manipulate magic through songs. She is the eldest and the most powerful of the Intoners. Zero is on a killing spree and relentlessly...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
I was actually waiting for you to make the pages and then I'd do some fixing up.

And yes, those edits are both baseless and a complete clusterfuck, made by an otherwise blank account. Reporting those edits in 3, 2, 1...

Done. Hopefully the vandal can have all edits reverted to fix the shit stains they've left all over that poor unsuspecting page...

Done. Agnaa was very quick and efficient. Never met anyone who could clean bull manure off a surface that quickly.
 
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