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Some Re:Zero downgrades.

LordGinSama

LordGinSama

16,991
12,130
This one should be pretty quick and simple.


First things first would be Reid's Type 2 conceptual manipulation which has absolutely no reason to be considered Type 2. Reid currently has Type 2 for the following reasons.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Stated to be able to cut concepts, and killed the concepts of sound and light. Reid's swordsmanship manifests the very notion of the "Sword" itself[4] and slashes down all objects in the world)
however as you can see, none of the scans show nor imply the universal concepts of light and sound suddenly being deleted from the very universe itself. For that there'd need to be a statement of something akin to eternal darkness or perpetual silence for nuking the concepts of Sound and Light on a Type 2 level. Furthermore, the concept of "the sword." is not a universal concept either, that would be Type 3 Conceptual manipulation (personal concepts.) same for him effecting light and sound, that would also be assumed to be Type 3 rather than Type 2 unless it's shown the universal concepts were altered or destroyed
.


Another really easy one. So Reid was given resistance to Analytical Prediction for these reasons.
Analytical Prediction (Despite Elsa being able to predict his attack coming, Garfiel was able to counteract it[22] mid-battle, and Reid is more skilled than him)



Issue being literally none of this is a resistance to Analytical Prediction. This is very manipulative to be frank, since it's literally never even stated that Garfiel was "unpredictable." and Elsa was literally shown predicting his attacks. Countering someone with AP isn't not a resistance to AP, how that got accepted is beyond me.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
How many times do we have to go over this analytical prediction stuff.

Literally went through 2 threads where people actually agreed it should stay, and here we are again....

I don't care either way, but this stuff gets very annoying.
Click to expand...
Regarding the conceptual manipulation, did you explain why it's type 2?

I disagree with the AP removal btw.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
How many times do we have to go over this analytical prediction stuff.

Literally went through 2 threads where people actually agreed it should stay, and here we are again....

I don't care either way, but this stuff gets very annoying.
Click to expand...
Cool, I wasn't in that thread nor did I know one existed so that's irrelevant to my thread.


Explain how countering an attack means resistance to AP whenever he literally had his movements read.
 
LordGinSama said:
Another really easy one. So Reid was given resistance to Analytical Prediction for these reasons.
Analytical Prediction (Despite Elsa being able to predict his attack coming, Garfiel was able to counteract it[22] mid-battle, and Reid is more skilled than him)



Issue being literally none of this is a resistance to Analytical Prediction. This is very manipulative to be frank, since it's literally never even stated that Garfiel was "unpredictable." and Elsa was literally shown predicting his attacks. Countering someone with AP isn't not a resistance to AP, how that got accepted is beyond me.
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Absolutly agreed. I thought I was tweaking when I read that. The scan literally states that Garfiel was read and predicted
 
I Agree with the analytical prediction, but i gonna wait for Zabazab to see If he defends the Conceptual one.
 
Agree with Type 3, Type 2's apparently just been on the page since before most of his text was translated. (y)
 
LordGinSama said:
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Stated to be able to cut concepts, and killed the concepts of sound and light. Reid's swordsmanship manifests the very notion of the "Sword" itself[4] and slashes down all objects in the world)
Click to expand...
this definitely shouldn't be type 2, I agree with downgrading his conceptual manipulation to type 3 concepts.
 
It should definitely be downgraded to Type 3, I've quickly skimmed over the profile before and when I saw that I instantly knew that rating was incorrect and should be downgraded, but since I've been extremely busy with others verses and irl stuff I never had the time to make the thread. So I agree it should be downgraded.

I currently agree that the AP resistance should probably be removed, but I'll wait for more knowledgeable members on the series to rebut the argument before giving an actual concrete approval or not.
 
I think for the analysize prediction, you should get the Scan, so people have more context.
Here the quote, but i gonna get the Scan in a minute.
Using the silver-colored shields attached to both arms, he chose to deflect rather than block the incoming blade. He kept redirecting the force of the woman’s attacks skyward, creating openings for counterattacks so he stood a chance at reeling in victory by force.
Even that very moment, he guided a powerful blow aimed at his neck off to the side before sending a kick straight into the woman’s torso. Had Garfiel’s kick connected cleanly, it would have undoubtedly ruptured all her internal organs. But—

“I’ve already seen that one.”

—the woman’s eyesight was truly frightening, surpassing all common sense.

Her whisper was not a joke or a taunt, either. Every technique she witnessed in battle did not work a second time. Having already foreseen this second straight kick, the woman avoided it with minimal movement as she lined up her next attack: a backward slash with her blade.

That blow, apparently intended to serve as punishment for foolishly resorting to the same technique a second time while fighting a powerful foe, hit its mark.
“Rrrrraaa!!”

In that same instant, Garfiel’s foolish kick slammed right into the woman’s face.

“—Ngh!”

She bit down to suppress the groan of pain that threatened to escape from the back of her throat. Her knife had entered his right foot, carving his flesh all the way up to his femur. If he’d been even slightly slower, she would’ve no doubt sliced off the entire leg. But for that price, Garfiel had landed a clean blow on the woman.

In the battle up to that point, Garfiel had grown to admire—and trust—the skill of Elsa, his foe. The excellence of her technique, her overwhelming combat intuition, the physical abilities she’d honed, and the impossibly fine control over her own body—few could claim to be as strong as this woman. He was certain that if he showed her the same technique twice, she’d definitely see right through it. It was this absolute trust in her ability that allowed Garfiel to land a direct hit on her.
Click to expand...
 
Elsa predicted the attack to be directed at her torso as that's what she gathered from reading Garfiel, and dodged accordingly. Garfiel was counting on this.

Garfiel's true aim, however, was her face, so Elsa did indeed fail to predict the attack otherwise she wouldn't have been hit.

That is what I gather from it. (Also it is from Volume 15, Chapter 3, Section 1)
 
Zabazab said:
Elsa predicted the attack to be directed at her torso as that's what she gathered from reading Garfiel, and dodged accordingly. Garfiel was counting on this.

Garfiel's true aim, however, was her face, so Elsa did indeed fail to predict the attack otherwise she wouldn't have been hit.

That is what I gather from it. (Also it is from Volume 15, Chapter 3, Section 1)
Click to expand...
This is not him resisting the ability to be predicted. This is him playing 3D chess by making her predict his actions but then actually planning on switching actions.

He's just incredibly skilled and intelligent.
 
Zabazab said:
Elsa predicted the attack to be directed at her torso as that's what she gathered from reading Garfiel, and dodged accordingly. Garfiel was counting on this.

Garfiel's true aim, however, was her face, so Elsa did indeed fail to predict the attack otherwise she wouldn't have been hit.

That is what I gather from it. (Also it is from Volume 15, Chapter 3, Section 1)
Click to expand...
That's literally a limitation on her AP, at best it's just something to put in his intelligence. All he did was bait her, he didn't make it so that she was incapable of predicting his actions.
 
Elsa literally wasn't able to read Garfiel's attack despite being able to read attacks. It should not be a question of how this is classified. Being able to do this by "skill" rather than some supernatural resistance doesn't change this. Even ******* cutting an acausal being is done through "skill" in this verse.

It was already agreed to be kept. Constantly bringing it up just for it to be accepted again is the antithesis of productivity. Let's just agree to downgrade the conceptual manipulation and move on.
 
VortechsTG said:
Elsa literally wasn't able to read Garfiel's attack despite being able to read attacks. It should not be a question of how this is classified. Being able to do this by "skill" rather than some supernatural resistance doesn't change this. Even ******* cutting an acausal being is done through "skill" in this verse.
Click to expand...
My guy she was literally stated to be able to predict him. All he did was bait her, this isn't a actual resistance to Analytical Prediction.


Let me give you a good example that @Kachon123 will support me with. In Kengan Ashura, there are plenty of skilled fighters who can contend and tango with those who have Analytical Prediction without an issue. They however are not resistant to Analytical Prediction, with only Formless techniques being considered to be resistant towards Analytical Prediction because you literally cannot predict the unorthodox movements and attacks.



This is different, Garfiel's literally having his movements predicted. All he did was bait her by having her predict his incoming attack then he changed it. Thats not a resistantance, all it entails is him being able to bait opponents into being hit with his attacks.
VortechsTG said:
It was already agreed to be kept. Constantly bringing it up just for it to be accepted again is the antithesis of productivity. Let's just agree to downgrade the conceptual manipulation and move on.
Click to expand...
No. We are not going to keep the ability listed just because it was argeed upon on 2 threads full of users who don't know how to argue properly.



She predicted his movements, end of discussion.
 
Y'know what, fine. You are a stubborn incorrigible bastard but I don't even care anymore. Reid can still resist Analytical Prediction with his resistance to Info Analysis so let's go ahead and just remove the Analytical Prediction if it will stop this shit from being brought up over and over.
 
I was also confused when I read "Resistance to Analytical Prediction" in the profiles, but for different reasons, analytical prediction is just a combat skill, if your attacks are not predicted it just means you have outsmarted/outskilled your opponent, what Elsa has is not Precognition.

At most it should be mentioned in their intelligence section and that's it.
 
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