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Some Fate revisions

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Promestein

Promestein

Resurrection Lily
She/Her
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Retired VSB Bureaucrat
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#1: Rin's Gems

Rin's gems are rated as 9-A for being stated to be capable of blowing down a house, and Possibly 7-A for taking a life off of Heracles.

I think they should just be 7-A, all around. They are A-rank magecraft vastly outstrip her normal output, took lives off of Heracles (though she used multiple gems for this), and can counter magic from Caster.

#2: People scaled to Rin's Gems

Basically no one scales to Rin's gems and those people still shouldn't scale to them even if we keep them at 9-A for whatever reason. They vastly outstrip her normal magic output, and her normal magic output vastly outstrips Kirei.

Basically:

  • Bazett: 9-B (Comparable to Kirei), varies with Fragarach
  • Caster: 7-A with strongest magic (Superior to Rin's gems, capable of penetrating Saber's magic resistance and killing Berserker at least once (as said by Nasu))
  • Illya: 9-B, possibly higher (Superior in terms of magical output to Rin)
It'd be ridiculously inconsistent for her normal magic to be strong enough to kill Berserker, and Illya shattering one of Rin's gems only happened in the Ufotable adaptation of UBW anyways.

  • Iri: 9-B (Should be at least comparable to Rin, though it is noted that Illya is considerably stronger than her)
  • Kirei: 9-B (Described as superhumanly strong, capable of shattering trees with punches and easily overpowering Shirou on his deathbed), higher with mantra boosts
  • Kiritsugu: At least 9-C, 9-B with firearms, High 8-C with prep, ignores conventional durability to some extent with Origin Bullets
  • Kuzuki: Likely 9-B (Described as superhumanly strong and capable of keeping up with Kirei and Bazett) [Base]
  • Luvia: 9-B, presumably 7-A with gems and prep
  • Ri: 9-B, 7-A with gems and prep (Took a life off of Berserker using three gems and countered magecraft from Caster)
  • Sakura: 9-B normally (Equal magic output to Rin)
  • Shirou:
    • Fate: 9-B, blah blah other stuff
    • Unlimited Blade Works: 9-B, higher with Kanshou and Bakuya (Managed to parry blows from Archer and Kuzuki), blah blah UBW
    • Heaven's Feel: 9-B, at least 7-C with Kanshou and Bakuya (Duplicates Archer's strength when projecting them, lethally wounded Saber Alter in a Bad End), blah blah
  • Tokiomi: 9-B, presumably 7-A with gems and prep
 
Looks fine to me.

But shouldn't Shirou's Striking Strength/AP be higher for parrying blows from a casual Archer?
 
Reppuzan said:
Looks fine to me.

But shouldn't Shirou's Striking Strength/AP be higher for parrying blows from a casual Archer?
Click to expand...
Yeah, probably, but we can't really gauge how powerful a casual Archer is.

Whether or not Shirou should be Tier 7 with Kanshou and Bakuya is up to debate (HF Shirou should probably be that strong, though, given that he's able to duplicate Archer's strength when projecting, to an extent).
 
He also wrestled with an annoyed (but not bloodlusted) Gilgamesh in UBW, so that ought to count for something.
 
We should get other opinions on where Shirou should be, exactly.

He's kind of a mess.
 
Edited the topics section for you, Prom.

As for your suggested changes, they seem alright and reasonable enough.

But it seems Shirou is a real mess here from the looks of things so far...
 
Fate Shirou, I don't remember anything notable sans Caliburn and Avalon. Why is he Small Building level with Azoth sword? Also, wasn't Caliburn with Saber's help or did he do it himself? Can he use it by his lonesome?

UBW Shirou, he was tangoing with casual Archer and goofing around with Gilgamesh. I'd think he'd be higher with KnB, probably something like "At most Town level", and "City level to Mountain level" with Unlimited Bladeworks (no "At least" since his projections are still not Archer's level).

HF Shirou, It think he'd be "Likely Town level" (No "At most" or "At least" since he'd be the closest to Archer's level of projections via Archer's arm). His Hrunting and Caladbolg, would probably be "Likely City level" (No "Likely higher" since he's the closest but not quite there iirc).
 
He killed Kirei with the Azoth Sword. That should be Wall level, though, as stated.

Anyways, yeah, those things seem fine.
 
Kirei should be Wall level durability-wise (Fine from jumping from an eighth story building, didn't get his arm blown off by the Thompson Contender, should be able to survive blows from comparable enemies) and Azoth Sword should be Wall level (or higher?) anyways since it contains at least some magical energy from Rin.
 
I was also wondering if Degen (Illya's sword familiar) would be higher for busting through Rin's Gem-powered barrier with ease.
 
I see. Thompson Contender is apparently designed to handle bullets from .22 LR to more pointy rifle bullets (LR is round-tipped) though what sets Kiritsugu's apart is that it was rigged to be, with a 14" barrel, used for .30-06 Springfield bullets (22gr 14g type is at 4042 J, 760m/s with a 24" barrel) that are 10% stronger than a 1952 .308 winchester (175gr 11g BTHP type is at 3690 J, 806m/s with a 24" barrel) and stronger than hand cannon magnums (.500 S&W Magnum - 500gr 32g type is at 3056 J, 434 m/s with an 8.4" barrel).

3690 J + 10% = 4059 J (Street level+, almost Wall level) <- going by the 10% stronger than a .308 winchester

4042 J (Street level+, almost Wall level) <- the actual .30-06 Springfield
 
Hmm. Kirei would still be Wall level in dura going by what Prom said earlier still, yes?

Though that's some good shit right there for the guy to not get his arm blown off, taht's for sure.
 
Reppuzan said:
I was also wondering if Degen (Illya's sword familiar) would be higher for busting through Rin's Gem-powered barrier with ease.
Click to expand...
Debatable.
 
@Cross

I dunno how high durability has to be to no-sell an 8-storey drop so I reserve my comment. The Thompson contender is only 950+/- J from being Wall level anyways so I guess Kirei gets the rating.

It did shoot right through his hand and through his forearm though, rendering it useless, but meh.
 
I see. Wall level it is then. The bullet is a piercing attack anyways so the outcome from that is lower.
 
I think everything is okay. The only thing i found edgy is Caster being 7-A.

Wasn't Saber unaffected by Caster's spells in Fate Route?

IIRC Saber was like: so, this is your magic? meh, i can dig that.
 
Saber also tanked Rin's gems without issue?
 
@KamiYasha Saber has A rank Magic Resistance though. Coupled with her City level durability, that should be enough to shrug off Caster's spells. Also, Rin being stronger than Caster doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
 
To be fair, Fate's Saber has At least City level durability normally. Dragon-level Magic Resistance does wonders.

That said, it is a bit iffy, considering how offsetting Excalibur was a big deal for Bellerophon.
 
So, are we good to go, then? At least on the downgrades for a bunch of people to Wall level?
 
Promestein said:
So, are we good to go, then? At least on the downgrades for a bunch of people to Wall level?
Click to expand...
IDK what the status of the caster one that Kami commented earlier on but everything else, i believe we're good on this yes. *Nods*
 
Well, if there are no complaints, I'll go along with updating the relevant pages.
 
^I'm pretty sure you're good to do them anyways. Though again, unsure of the Caster one that Kami said. But i presume y'all even covered that too here? If so then....yeah, you're good to go.
 
There. I've made the relevant changes.
 
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