Some changes to ‘Powerscaling rules for Marvel and DC Comics’

[Antvasima]

Is somebody here willing to help out with finding as extreme replacements as possible to the examples that I agreed should be replaced above?

Ones resulting in absolutely outrageous scaling chains that is.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody here willing to help out with finding as extreme replacements as possible to the examples that I agreed should be replaced above?

Ones resulting in absolutely outrageous scaling chains that is.

I still need help with this task.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @LuciferX @Excellence616 @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Would you count things like the various nonsensical ways of killing the Marvel heroes shown in "Deadpool kills the Marvel Universe"?

 

[Antvasima]

If they help with composite outrageously illogical chain-scaling examples, sure, but it is best if we do not rely on morbid joke-feats alone.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Checking the page, I'm a little bit surprised the iconic instance of Spidey beating up Firestorm isn't in there as an example... Is there a reason for that?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can use it, as long as we combine it with Firelord holding his own against Thor and the Silver Surfer, and then continue with stronger characters that they have fought in turn.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

That'd work as an example then. Can't think of any others quite as extreme but I'm sure they exist.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

There's also this potential instance I found [Source: Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme (Vol. 1) #40; 1992]

Daredevil sent the Fear Lord D'Spayre crashing to the ground in a sneak attack; this being right after D'Spayre stole the amped fear energies of humanity from Nightmare and Dweller-In-Darkness, no-selling their combined power before vanquishing them both.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That is a good example, yes. I think that can be used. And given that Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross once collaborated on a brief Doctor Strange story in which Nightmare had easily defeated the Living Tribunal, we might be able to use that as a part of the chain-scaling.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bump.

 

[Excellence616]

irrc, there was a time Spider man defeated Hulk. Can't remember the comic or issue

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

irrc, there was a time Spider man defeated Hulk. Can't remember the comic or issue

There's also Hyperion tanking an Incursion, which is a blatant Low 1-A durability feat. I don't know any Hyperion anti-feats, but I think that could work for a bad scaling chain example.

 

[Antvasima]

There's also this potential instance I found [Source: Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme (Vol. 1) #40; 1992]

Daredevil sent the Fear Lord D'Spayre crashing to the ground in a sneak attack; this being right after D'Spayre stole the amped fear energies of humanity from Nightmare and Dweller-In-Darkness, no-selling their combined power before vanquishing them both.

There's also Hyperion tanking an Incursion, which is a blatant Low 1-A durability feat. I don't know any Hyperion anti-feats, but I think that could work for a bad scaling chain example.

Thank you for helping out.

I added the Firelord example btw:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...mics?type=revision&diff=8497964&oldid=8485693

So which of the currently listed scaling chains are blatantly inaccurate and should be removed?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

I added the Firelord example btw:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...mics?type=revision&diff=8497964&oldid=8485693

So which of the currently listed scaling chains are blatantly inaccurate and should be removed?

Bump.

Also, would the following two scaling chains be fine to add?

"Gambit once defeated Gladiator, and Gladiator significantly harmed Galactus after the latter had just eaten Dormammu and Satannish, and right before he collapsed the entire Universe-616 reality. (Low 1-A Gambit)"

"Daredevil once kicked D'Spayre to the ground, after the latter had stolen the powers of Nightmare and the Dweller in Darkness and defeated them both, and Nightmare once defeated The Living Tribunal, Eternity, and Death at the same time. (High 1-A Daredevil)"

You can comment here if you want, ProfectusInfinity.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Bump.

Also, would the following two scaling chains be fine to add?

"Gambit once defeated Gladiator, and Gladiator significantly harmed Galactus after the latter had just eaten Dormammu and Satannish, and right before he collapsed the entire Universe-616 reality. (Low 1-A Gambit)"

"Daredevil once kicked D'Spayre to the ground, after the latter had stolen the powers of Nightmare and the Dweller in Darkness and defeated them both, and Nightmare once defeated The Living Tribunal, Eternity, and Death at the same time. (High 1-A Daredevil)"

You can comment here if you want, ProfectusInfinity.

Both look pretty good to me!

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I will add them then.

 

[Antvasima]

I handled it.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...mics?type=revision&diff=8515336&oldid=8498455

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I added some rather reliable feats, but it would help if we recap which of the older ones that are unreliable, and find the exact issue number references for all of the instances that are mentioned in that page.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Well, I added some rather reliable feats, but it would help if we recap which of the older ones that are unreliable, and find the exact issue number references for all of the instances that are mentioned in that page.

If that's the case, I'd like to drop some miscellaneous comments on some of the examples contested.

Thor has been knocked out from a shot by a handgun but also harmed the Chaos King (High 1-A handgun)

The contentions thus far are:

I mean, just look at Thor’s page, and you can see why this doesn’t work.

As shown in Chaos War #1, Skyfather Hercules had amplified all the other heroes, so this isn't a base Thor. On top of that, I recall scans of Thor getting exponential amps from energy he absorbs, so it could probably be argued that he got an especially large amp.

I somewhat disagree with the first contention. Even though Thor has High 1-A feats in his base form via Inner Essence, doesn't mean any High 1-A feat he performs should be attributed to that by default. Nearly all of the Inner Essence/God Blast feats on his profile have scans referencing some sort of Inner Power or name the God Blast directly. I don't think we should make it a habit to apply any High 1-B/Low 1-A/High 1-A feats to Thor's profile without evidence Inner Essence was involved. So in a vacuum, Thor harming the Chaos King should be viewed as a high-end outlier.

As for the second one, Skyfather Hercules is High 1-B for being superior to all the Skyfathers combined. Depending on how you interpret him giving the heroes "a fraction of his power," you could safely say that any individual hero like Thor probably has strength comparable to that of a single Skyfather. By the end, that's still a High 1-B at best Thor landing hits on a High 1-A Chaos King, and the gap between High 1-B and High 1-A is too large to argue exponential amps without explicit evidence in this scenario. If this were a High 1-A God of Gods Hercules amping the heroes, that would be different, but if it's just a High 1-B Skyfather Hercules amping them against High 1-A Chaos King, then I disagree with that point of contention.

Either way, if Thor was really fighting at High 1-B levels, and is equal or inferior to his Odinforce self, then the example should be reworked into something like "Odinforce Thor performed [insert anti-feat], yet a likely weaker incarnation of Thor amplified by Skyfather Hercules harmed the Chaos King."

Now, Chaos King context aside, I don't believe the handgun anti-feat should be used, if it's the anti-feat I believe this example is meant to reference. Quoting a blog I saw elsewhere a couple weeks ago:

THOR IS OWNED BY A HAND GUN:

This occurred in Black Panther (1998) #8. The gun (and its bullet) was Wakandan technology, which as we all know is based on vibranium, one of the few existing magical metals capable of harming Thor. Additionally, Monica was wearing a vibranium exoskeleton that greatly increased her physical capabilities. We are later told that the bullet barely passed through the skin of Thor's forehead, and he momentarily passed out from the impact. once explained it doesn't sound as horrible as it first seemed, right?

Here's a list of alternative low-ends displays for Odinforce Thor.

And for regular Thor.

• Aunt May is not significantly weaker than J. Jonah Jameson, who has punched an unmasked Spider-Man bloody on his own, who is physically superior to the Black Panther, who beat the Tiger God and used it to defeat Logos, who killed The Living Tribunal (High 1-A aunt May).
• Spider-Man has beaten the Puma, who could allegedly kill the Beyonder when in perfect harmony with the universe, which scales to Aunt May according to the above "logic" (High 1-B Aunt May).

Both of these seem mostly rejected by now. One argument I saw against the first one is that there was a cosmic axis imbalance during the Eternity War saga, which means there was no firm hierarchy dictating how powerful one abstract being is compared with another, which could be blamed for Black Panther beating the Tiger God. However, this hierarchy only dictates the nature of Abstracts tied with Multi-Eternity, and with the Tiger God being equal or superior to the True Form Phoenix Force, I don't see why he would be bound by that hierarchy.

Regardless, Black Panther's fight with the Tiger God was depicted as more of a test wherein he challenged T'Challa to see how worthy he was of claiming his power. There's even subtext there about how the Tiger God represents fear of the dark and whatnot, thus T'Challa beating him would be like conquering fear itself. As someone who's read every Tiger God appearance, he does this quite often. He lets himself get slapped out by Ava Ayala (White Tiger) and her street-tier enemies pretty often, but gets serious when he needs to, like when Ava summoned him to one-shot Shuma-Gorath. He states that the amount of power he's willing to display depends how worthy and courageous he feels his host is to command his full power. There've been other instances where it's outright stated that he gets weaker as humanity conquers its fear of the dark, and he jobbed to normal Atlanteans because as an underwater society, they've never experienced fear of tigers. So this one's definitely unusable.

As for the second one, as mentioned in the OP, the Puma had to achieve a massive amplification to match The Beyonder, so this one's unusable too. The Spider-man example's been replaced already, however:

Spider-Man also beat Firelord unconscious, who has harmed and held his own against the Silver Surfer, who managed to fight the Griever at the End of All Things for several minutes, who almost killed the Molecule Man. (Another High 1-A aunt May)

1. If we're removing the other 2 Spider-Man examples, we should explain how it'd apply to Aunt May rather than writing "another" since it's the only one now.

2. There was contention over whether or not Aunt May being comparable to J. Jonah Jameson was a reasonable assumption to make. Deagon and Ant were in favor, while Tracer was opposed. I think staff input is needed here, though I personally think it's a reasonable assumption.

The Hulk was choked unconscious by an ordinary python but also harmed Dormammu after the latter beat Multi-Eternity and stole his power (High 1-A snake)

This one seems unanimously rejected too.

1. Umar was amping heroes like Doctor Strange, thus probably amping Hulk too.
2. Umar drained the power of Multiversal Eternity away all the while this was happening.
3. Umar states she not only drained the power of Eternity away, but Dormammu's innate power as well. This is important because Dormammu was High 1-A during that arc regardless of holding Eternity's power since he was still amplified by the Cosmic Axis which allowed him to challenge Eternity in the first place. Since Dormammu had none of his innate power either, you couldn't salvage this by arguing he's still High 1-A.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as far as I am aware, the rifle bullet that knocked out Thor was not stated to be shot with extraordinary force or made by Vibranium, so I think that we can keep that example, although possibly in modified form, but except for that your points currently seem acceptable.

 

[Antvasima]

I have adjusted the page in question accordingly. Is this acceptable?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...mics?type=revision&diff=8596952&oldid=8515336

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I have adjusted the page in question accordingly. Is this acceptable?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...mics?type=revision&diff=8596952&oldid=8515336

Yeah, looks great!

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Thank you.

Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

There's nothing else at the moment. I'd like for us to do a more comprehensive overhaul of these rules at some point, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. Close it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.