Some bleach additions v2

[TheLav69]

Actually, I might understand now what @Guacamolefletcher meant above when he said that the scans for Bazz-B keeping his schrift aren't usable. Robert's death via the Auswahlen was cut from the anime, which is something I'd forgotten about, so I'm not sure it'd be sound to use those scans as justification for resistance to Power Absorbtion, since the instance where Robert was absorbed is referenced in that scene. We don't know what might happen to that scene in the anime, as a result.

Most of my arguments above still apply if you just replace, "Robert", with, "fodder Soldat", so I'm still agreeing with resistance to Life/Death manipulation, but for now I'm changing to disagreement for resistance to Power Absorbtion, and we'll see how the anime changes things in that regard.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

As far as I can tell Yamamoto just tanked the attacks from the stolen Bankai; he didn't display any overt resistance to it.

If someone isn't affected by something, it's like they have resistance to it. When you say "he tanked it," it means he endured it without being affected, so in a way, he showed resistance.

As for Bazz B, I disagree with him getting Resistance to Power Absorption or Death Manipulation. There is no indication that Yhwach was trying to remove the Schrifts of the people he targeted. He just removed their Vollstandig.

It's not an exception just for Bazz B. Multiple Quincy survived it but all had their Vollstandig stolen.

We saw Robert die from it, and Buzz took a direct hit, while other Quincies hid behind rubble. Masaki and Uryu's mom lost their powers because of Aushwlen, leading to Uryu mom's death. Some characters died because of it, others didn't. Those who didn't should have corresponding abilities based on that.

 

[TheLav69]

We saw Robert die from it

Not in the anime, see my last post in this thread. We still have the fodder soldat which serve the same role in the argument, though.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Not in the anime, see my last post in this thread. We still have the fodder soldat which serve the same role in the argument, though.

Yeah i don't mind still we have Uryu mom dying because of it.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Not in the anime, see my last post in this thread. We still have the fodder soldat which serve the same role in the argument, though.

Does the fact that it's not in the anime mean we can't use this scene? As far as I know, in case of a conflict, anime is taken into account, otherwise we can use manga scans.
Anyway, soldats are still concrete evidence for this situation.

 

[TheLav69]

Does the fact that it's not in the anime mean we can't use this scene? As far as I know, in case of a conflict, anime is taken into account, otherwise we can use manga scans.
Anyway, soldats are still concrete evidence for this situation.

Yeah, check the canonicity section of the Bleach verse page. For TYBW, Anime takes precedence over the manga, and in the case that there are conflicts, the anime supersedes the manga completely, so we can't use Robert as justification, and I'm assuming that also extends to scenes that reference his death. They can't reference something that didn't happen in the anime, so the chance for a conflict is too high for the scene to be usable imo.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

he didn't display any overt resistance to it.

No selling electricity isn’t just a conventional durability feat, because of how conductivity works. Even if the Ap is way less than his durability, his organs don’t boil and his brain doesn’t pop because of electrolysis. running 1,000,000 joules of electricity through someone that has 1,000,000 joule durability will cook their internal organs.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

bump

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Such simple additions shouldn't have waited this long, damn it

 

[Mndks]

looks fine

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The Resistances seem fine. Electricity still ignores durability to an extent due to the way it functions, old dude was not paralyzed or did he spasm repeatedly so I can see a resistance. As for the Quincy, unless a scan is provided that specifically mentions they moved out of the light and that's what kept them from dying, I don't see an issue with the resistance.

 

[Damage3245]

As for the Quincy, unless a scan is provided that specifically mentions they moved out of the light and that's what kept them from dying, I don't see an issue with the resistance.

The scan for the latter is here. Bazz-B says that the ones who managed to get away from the light only lost their Vollstandig (which fits with Bazz-B since he never uses his Vollstandig again). The ones who couldn't get away lost their life. He doesn't say "Some of us stayed in the light and also survived."

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

The scan for the latter is here. Bazz-B says that the ones who managed to get away from the light only lost their Vollstandig (which fits with Bazz-B since he never uses his Vollstandig again). The ones who couldn't get away lost their life. He doesn't say "Some of us stayed in the light and also survived."

In the scan you posted, Bazz says that those caught in this light die, right? Yes. In the anime, did the Soldats get caught in this light and die? Yes. Has Bazz been caught in this light? Yes. The only conclusion here is that Bazz resists the manipulation of life and death.

I can also assume you agree with things like Yamamato's resistance and Energy absorption, right?

 

[TheLav69]

The scan for the latter is here. Bazz-B says that the ones who managed to get away from the light only lost their Vollstandig (which fits with Bazz-B since he never uses his Vollstandig again). The ones who couldn't get away lost their life. He doesn't say "Some of us stayed in the light and also survived."

He didn’t say that the ones who “couldn’t get away” lost their lives, he said that the ones who “got hit” lost their lives.

The argument here is that “getting away from the light” can also be interpreted as “getting hit by the light and then escaping”, which would be a fine interpretation if Bazz-B didn’t already debunk this by saying that the Quincies that got hit died in the same scan.

Furthermore, the example we’re given for a Quincy that “got away from the light” in the background of that scan is Liltotto, who wasn’t directly touched by it at all.

On top of that, I don’t think there’s a single example of the Auswahlen taking time to kill someone who died to it, in the manga or anime. Characters either get hit and immediately die, or they don’t. In the manga, on the same panel that Robert gets hit by it, he’s already getting the skin stripped off of his body. Same with the Soldat in the anime, they just get hit by it, and boom, they’re gone.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The scan for the latter is here. Bazz-B says that the ones who managed to get away from the light only lost their Vollstandig (which fits with Bazz-B since he never uses his Vollstandig again). The ones who couldn't get away lost their life. He doesn't say "Some of us stayed in the light and also survived."

Wasn't Uryu mom died to it? Also buzz B literally tanked it and survived it

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

What's the proof that Bazz got hit by the light? Asking as someone who has very, very little Bleach knowledge.

Electricity resistance seems fine at a glance btw.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What's the proof that Bazz got hit by the light? Asking as someone who has very, very little Bleach knowledge.

This. Anime color seems like blue I guess but that's Ashwlen light Buzz B was exposed.
Bazz is exposed to Auswhlen and is not affected by it like other Quincys.

 

[TheLav69]

What's the proof that Bazz got hit by the light? Asking as someone who has very, very little Bleach knowledge.

Electricity resistance seems fine at a glance btw.

Here’s a link to a short YouTube video that shows him in the light.

 

[TheLav69]

Ninja’d

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The scan for the latter is here. Bazz-B says that the ones who managed to get away from the light only lost their Vollstandig (which fits with Bazz-B since he never uses his Vollstandig again). The ones who couldn't get away lost their life. He doesn't say "Some of us stayed in the light and also survived."

I interpreted that as, they got away by dodging and hiding from the light.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

This. Anime color seems like blue I guess but that's Ashwlen light Buzz B was exposed.
Bazz is exposed to Auswhlen and is not affected by it like other Quincys.

Here’s a link to a short YouTube video that shows him in the light.

Thank you both, it would be quite a hassle if I had to take screenshots.

If anyone still wants to watch the full episode, it's here at 19:17

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I suppose since the anime showed them being hit, and we prioritize the anime for the TYBW, then this is probably fine.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I interpreted that as, they got away by dodging and hiding from the light.

I think Lilotto and Giselle are pretty clear evidence for this situation

 

[TheLav69]

I think Lilotto and Giselle are pretty clear evidence for this situation

Liltotto is also the exact case that’s called back to when Bazz says that some got away, so it’s pretty clear, yeah.

 

[Damage3245]

How would Bazz-B be specially resistant to Auswahlen? Uryu is noted as being the only person who ever survived Auswahlen before and he did that because he had a power that could potentially surpass Yhwach's.

It seems more likely to me that Bazz just managed to escape being killed by it like some of his fellow Sternritter but doesn't have a special resistance.

On top of that, I don’t think there’s a single example of the Auswahlen taking time to kill someone who died to it, in the manga or anime.

That's not true. Uryu's mother, Kanae Katagiri, was hit by Auswahlen but she died three months later.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

How would Bazz-B be specially resistant to Auswahlen? Uryu is noted as being the only person who ever survived Auswahlen before and he did that because he had a power that could potentially surpass Yhwach's.

Frankly, what you're saying is completely illogical. We have only one feat and all of these prove to us that this is resistance. How can we ignore something like this?

It seems more likely to me that Bazz just managed to escape being killed by it like some of his fellow Sternritter but doesn't have a special resistance.

As I said, this proposal is quite unreasonable compared to the proposal to provide special resistance. When it comes to explaining this scene to people, how logical is it to say something like "Bazz was shot just like the others, he didn't die like the other soldats, but that doesn't give resistance because it was said that the only person who wouldn't be affected by it was Uryuu"? Also, are we sure the context here is specifically talking about life/death manipulation? Can you send me this scene?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

How would Bazz-B be specially resistant to Auswahlen? Uryu is noted as being the only person who ever survived Auswahlen before and he did that because he had a power that could potentially surpass Yhwach's.

It seems more likely to me that Bazz just managed to escape being killed by it like some of his fellow Sternritter but doesn't have a special resistance.

But we see him get hit, others look like they hid. We'd consider that a resistance.

That's not true. Uryu's mother, Kanae Katagiri, was hit by Auswahlen but she died three months later.

This would mean it's effects very then?

 

[TheLav69]

That’s not true. Uryu's mother, Kanae Katagiri, was hit by Auswahlen but she died three months later.

Ok, fair. All the same, though, Robert and the Soldat are instantly killed in this usage of the Auswahlen, while Bazz and a couple of the other Sternritter are not.

How would Bazz-B be specially resistant to Auswahlen? Uryu is noted as being the only person who ever survived Auswahlen before and he did that because he had a power that could potentially surpass Yhwach's.

It seems more likely to me that Bazz just managed to escape being killed by it like some of his fellow Sternritter but doesn't have a special resistance.

It does seem a bit strange, I’ll agree, but it happened, despite that. Also, I could be wrong, but I think that the part about Uryu having a power greater than Yhwach was cut from the anime, I can double check when I get home in a few hours.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

but I think that the part about Uryu having a power greater than Yhwach was cut from the anime, I can double check when I get home in a few hours.

I already told him to provide me with these scenes

However, no matter what, this is a feat of resistance that cannot be ignored.

 

[TheLav69]

This would mean it's effects very then?

It’s also worth noting that the Yhwach who used the Auswahlen on Uryu’s mom isn’t as strong as the one who used it on Bazz. The first Auswahlen was done at the start of the 9 years during which Yhwach was regaining his power, so he should be far weaker. The Auswahlen may very well have been weaker, as a result.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

It’s also worth noting that the Yhwach who used the Auswahlen on Uryu’s mom isn’t as strong as the one who used it on Bazz. The first Auswahlen was done at the start of the 9 years during which Yhwach was regaining his power, so he should be far weaker. The Auswahlen may very well have been weaker, as a result.

Yes, this is pretty obvious. While Yhwach affects Soldats with one hit in TYBW, he affects Uryuu's mother late. Regardless, from the evidence we've already used, Yhwach's Auswahlen is instantly effective, so yeah, you're right, man.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How would Bazz-B be specially resistant to Auswahlen? Uryu is noted as being the only person who ever survived Auswahlen before and he did that because he had a power that could potentially surpass Yhwach's.

Having the potential power to surpass Yhwach means only that person who would receives resistance to Auswählen? Can I get scans where this was stated?

Just because Uryu is the only one noted to have survived Auswählen doesn't mean he is the only one capable of surviving it.

Also what type of logic are you using here? By your reasoning, if a character possesses death manipulation and opponents are supposed to die instantly, and someone actually resists it, then none of them should be considered to have resistance to death manipulation? Just because death manipulation is supposed to kill them, according to your logic, more than 90% of characters in vs wiki should lose their resistances.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Agree with electric manip kinda neutral on the Bazz stuff but leaning agree.

 

[Damage3245]

Also what type of logic are you using here? By your reasoning, if a character possesses death manipulation and opponents are supposed to die instantly, and someone actually resists it, then none of them should be considered to have resistance to death manipulation? Just because death manipulation is supposed to kill them, according to your logic, more than 90% of characters in vs wiki should lose their resistances.

Clearly not all victims of Auswahlen are meant to die instantly as some Quincy in the past such as Uryu's mother and Ichigo's mother didn't die instantly. For all we know Bazz-B would have died in a few months anyway (not saying this was definitely the case). There is enough doubt here for me to lean against giving him a solid resistance to it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Clearly not all victims of Auswahlen are meant to die instantly as some Quincy in the past such as Uryu's mother and Ichigo's mother didn't die instantly. For all we know Bazz-B would have died in a few months anyway (not saying this was definitely the case). There is enough doubt here for me to lean against giving him a solid resistance to it.

Would you be more okay with a Possibly/Likely Resistance?

 

[TheLav69]

For all we know Bazz-B would have died in a few months anyway (not saying this was definitely the case)

Eh, I think this is pretty unlikely, given that Candice and Meninas get hit and survive in a similar fashion, yet they’re still alive in CFYOW, which occurs 6 months after the defeat of Yhwach.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Clearly not all victims of Auswahlen are meant to die instantly as some Quincy in the past such as Uryu's mother and Ichigo's mother didn't die instantly. For all we know Bazz-B would have died in a few months anyway (not saying this was definitely the case). There is enough doubt here for me to lean against giving him a solid resistance to it.

Ichigo's mother and the others were absorbed and killed by something not equal to the Auswahlen from the time of TYBW. What did Yhwach use Auswahlen for in TYBW? To get instant power. There is absolutely nothing illogical about this situation, Yhwach would have killed Bazz instantly like the other soldats, but he couldn't because he resisted it.

 

[Arcker123]

I share the same opinion as Arc

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Would you be more okay with a Possibly/Likely Resistance?

I think this would be quite unnecessary. While everything is enough for us to make a clear scaling, it would be unnecessary to rate it as Poss/Likely. And already two admins approved me. Of course, I don't know if you've changed your mind.