(SOLVED) Can cameras give people retrocog? What about ones most people don't have? Is it necessary for it to be supernatural and above the norm at the

[H3110l12345I20]

same time? <<<

DarlingAurora gave a good point about recording events that we can see later. Any one can do it via cameras.

Questions: answer ones in OP first. Then...

Are there cameras in IRL that not everyone has, and can be considered above average albeit not very supernatural retrocogition? You look up recorded stuff of events that already happened. Are any of the cameras I asked for here legit retrocognition?

• A bigger question. Should possessing security cameras that can look back at past camera footage be considered retrocog since they're above average smartphone capabilities (not everyone has them)? You can argue that having extensive security cameras also grants the security cameras tech-based enhanced senses since they can see areas you normally wouldn't without them.

Similarly, does the ESP page always need to be supernatural? The IRL Great White page has ESP as an ability. nah, it's just extra senses, bad example. Doesn't humanity have ESP tech like infared vision goggles?

Note: while the ability says it may be used with or is most frequently associated w/ supernatural abilities, it doesn't say that the ability needs to have the said abilities. Does retrocog have to be supernatural?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

Not everything has to be an ability

 

[Deleted member 11410]

Not everything has to be an ability

Sharks doesn't use an sixth sense though.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Sharks doesn't use an sixth sense though.

Yeah but what sharks have is an actual ability and can't be compared to cameras

 

[Deleted member 11410]

Yeah but what sharks have is an actual ability and can't be compared to cameras

Shark uses some of their five senses to detect them, idk about cameras though.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Similarly, does the ESP page always need to be supernatural? The IRL Great White page has ESP as an ability. nah, it's just extra senses, bad example. Doesn't humanity have ESP tech like infared vision goggles?

OP changed accordingly to responses here to keep things up-to-date.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[H3110l12345I20]

necro; question unanswered

 

[Hypertornado099]

Your question was answered

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Your question was answered

So? The answer's point wasn't good because it doesn't address the fact that you can use and implement security cameras and reply recorded footage (something not everyone uses, effectively a superpower like a spider's weak bite force with sharp teeth). That's retrocognition. And by your logic, we don't have to put stuff like superhuman strength on our wiki pages, we might as well leave them blank.

And I don't really get why Aurora thinks it's obvious that retrocog is supposed to be supernatural when the page technically doesn't say that.

She basically did a burden of proof fallacy here
"

As I say the Retrocognition scales more to an supernatural mean like clairvoyance or ESP. I want to see where in the page says it can be done via conventional means? I don't see it and we can't give it without an reason.

I'm pretty sure this is essentially burden of proof fallacy. You're saying that you need evidence to prove something the Retrocognition page goes out of it's way to not include, unlike the Clairvoyance page. The page itself also only says "it is most commonly associated with Clairvoyance and Extrasensory Perception". They're simply associated with each other as powers that allow a character to perceive something a person normally can with their usual senses. That doesn't mean Retrocognition is necessarily tied to supernatural means.
"

I can ironically throw her argument back to her and we're now going to be even on how fallacious we're making ourselves look lol.

But I can argue that Maybewantstoedit technically used the page to indirectly prove that it can be used via conventional means right here: "The page itself also only says "it is most commonly associated with Clairvoyance and Extrasensory Perception". They're simply associated with each other as powers that allow a character to perceive something a person normally can with their usual senses. That doesn't mean Retrocognition is necessarily tied to supernatural means." yes, this is from the same section. I just copy-pasted this

 

[Vzearr]

Yeah, technically.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Yeah, technically.

Thank you for the response. Though I'm curious to see Aurora's reaction to a thing she commonly assiocates with the supernatural isn't technically a thing. Sounds like she's done a false equivalence fallacy.

 

[Flashlight237]

I'm gonna go out of my limb and say no. Retrocognition is the supernatural ability to see the past. Cameras only take one specific image from an older time at the push of a button, and said image would basically be an image of the present when the picture is taken. Video cameras are the same, just that multiple pictures are taken in rapid fire.

 

[Omnificence]

Cameras only take one specific image from an older time at the push of a button, and said image would basically be an image of the present when the picture is taken.

Isn't that technically seeing into the past, though?

 

[Damage3245]

Only in the sense that a person breathing can be considered to have "Air Manipulation" but we wouldn't really list that.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

? Not everyone has security cameras. And you can see previously recorded camera footage that recorded something in the past. Effectively retrocog without something like your everyday smart phone.

I'll update the OP accordingly to this argument.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Me on my way to give everyone with a flashlight light manipulation

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Me on my way to give everyone with a flashlight light manipulation

I mean, this is a funny roast, but at the very least can you tell me how having multiple security cameras is on the same level as having a smartphone with one camera with a flashlight?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Something similar has been called into question before. I'm referring to the "Light Manipulation via Flashlights" thread.

On a tiny scale, we technically have air manipulation via blowing, water manipulation via saliva and other bodily fluids, self electricity manipulation via psychology (thinking is an electrical and chemical function in the brain), regeneration of small wounds over the course of multiple days, and other similar small abilities. Of course, using smartphones, we also have access to light manipulation, retrocognition, genius intelligence, and small data based actions. The abilities acknowledged by the VS Battles Wiki usually mean it in the sense that it's either a superpower or more significant than mundane, hence why there aren't "Human Physiology" nor "Smartphone User" ability pages listing a bunch of little standard human abilities and standard smartphone abilities. I think it would be nice to have a "Smartphone User" ability page, but we don't. Edit: As the person in the next reply put it, cameras don't even actually have retrocognition. It's just the functionality that makes it seem that way.

I don't think it matters that security cameras are rarer than smartphones. The significance isn't measured by the happenstance that is people using a certain type of technology more than another. It's the retrocognition itself that should be significant. A rule of thumb I have: If you think, "hey, this technically counts as an ability," and if it were implemented, that would lead to countless mundane humans qualifying for what is supposed to be a special superpower, then what you thought of is probably too mundane to count for VS Battles Wiki purposes.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Isn't that technically seeing into the past, though?

No, it is more of a photo you taken at that specific time. The fact we need a regular camera to record information from the present doesn’t truly make it count as truly retrocog.

Again, keep in mind, we can erase and delete the photos to save space on said camera therefore making it not really retrocog

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also, I not necessarily a history nerd by any means, but outside of security cameras, regular cameras has always been here for over a hundreds years IIRC if not longer. Therefore, it will been optional equipment anyway

 

[Flashlight237]

I'm gonna go out of my limb and say no. Retrocognition is the supernatural ability to see the past. Cameras only take one specific image from an older time at the push of a button, and said image would basically be an image of the present when the picture is taken. Video cameras are the same, just that multiple pictures are taken in rapid fire.

To add onto all this, security cameras literally do the same thing as video cameras; only difference is you can allow them to run 24/7 depending on the power grid and the footage uploads itself to a database. By the way, normal video camera footage can be uploaded to a database too, like file systems, cloud storage and (and this one's a huge stretch) YouTube. That's not retrocognition; that's still recording the present and saving it for later like the other camera types.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

By the way, normal video camera footage can be uploaded to a database too, like file systems, cloud storage and (and this one's a huge stretch) YouTube

Not impossible tbf

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Ok. Dispute settled in one area.

Something similar has been called into question before. I'm referring to the "Light Manipulation via Flashlights" thread.

On a tiny scale, we technically have air manipulation via blowing, water manipulation via saliva and other bodily fluids, self electricity manipulation via psychology (thinking is an electrical and chemical function in the brain), regeneration of small wounds over the course of multiple days, and other similar small abilities. Of course, using smartphones, we also have access to light manipulation, retrocognition, genius intelligence, and small data based actions. The abilities acknowledged by the VS Battles Wiki usually mean it in the sense that it's either a superpower or more significant than mundane, hence why there aren't "Human Physiology" nor "Smartphone User" ability pages listing a bunch of little standard human abilities and standard smartphone abilities. I think it would be nice to have a "Smartphone User" ability page, but we don't. Edit: As the person in the next reply put it, cameras don't even actually have retrocognition. It's just the functionality that makes it seem that way.

I don't think it matters that security cameras are rarer than smartphones. The significance isn't measured by the happenstance that is people using a certain type of technology more than another. It's the retrocognition itself that should be significant. A rule of thumb I have: If you think, "hey, this technically counts as an ability," and if it were implemented, that would lead to countless mundane humans qualifying for what is supposed to be a special superpower, then what you thought of is probably too mundane to count for VS Battles Wiki purposes.

Though my concern here is that it's not explicitly confirmed that if "X ability" technically doesn't say/imply that it has to be supernatural despite frequently being associated with being supernatural, does that mean "X ability" has to be supernatural?

For example, at a smaller scale, IRL people do have intuition, but the people with the best intuitions are above normal people in intuition obviously. And intuition can be used to predict the future. AI can also predict the future. Night vision goggles detect heat from life forms, which should be energy signatures. Does that make Precognition and ESP in IRL supernatural? or not?

• I'm asking this because my friend ironically keeps interpreting being supernatural as a requirement for these powers and other similar powers.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Ok. Dispute settled in one area.

Though my concern here is that it's not explicitly confirmed that if "X ability" technically doesn't say/imply that it has to be supernatural despite frequently being associated with being supernatural, does that mean "X ability" has to be supernatural?

For example, at a smaller scale, IRL people do have intuition, but the people with the best intuitions are above normal people in intuition obviously. And intuition can be used to predict the future. AI can also predict the future. Night vision goggles detect heat from life forms, which should be energy signatures. Does that make Precognition and ESP in IRL supernatural? or not?

• I'm asking this because my friend ironically keeps interpreting being supernatural as a requirement for these powers and other similar powers.

This varies a bit. An ability being supernatural is required for something like supernatural willpower, since it's distinct from peak human willpower in that way. However, in general on the VS Battles Wiki, there being a supernatural aspect isn't a solid requirement. As long as someone is listing an ability for its notability as a better than mundane specialty, and not for a technicality that would belong in something like a hypothetical list of minor limited standard human abilities, then it can count as an ability on the VS Battles Wiki. Outside of the VS Battles Wiki, there may be other standards under which people can classify things more leniently or more strictly.

To be precise in regards to the examples you used:

• The word precognition means "foreknowledge of an event, especially foreknowledge of a paranormal kind," and note that the "especially" attributed to the paranormality implies that the word can be used to not refer to paranormality even though it's usually associated with it. Outside of the VS Battles Wiki, you can use the word "precognition" to refer to natural prediction and it would be grammatically correct, albeit potentially confusing. However, on the VS Battles Wiki, that would be incorrect, since the Precognition page clarifies that "precognition" is explicitly meant as in divination, which always refers to knowing the future supernaturally, or analytical prediction, which is the ability to predict the future without truly knowing it, but the best kinds of analytical prediction are similar to divination.
• Extrasensory perception on the VS Battles Wiki is the sixth sense ability to detect energy signatures, matter signatures, or the like near the user. I recall that a "sixth sense" can be achieved in real life with enough training in a specific topic, which seems to be an application the VS Battles Wiki can accept due to how one of the official possible uses is that it "can be used to predict the opponent's movements" like analytical prediction, but I also think this ability often has a supernatural connotation that can't be replicated in real life like that. Night vision goggles are neither supernatural nor highly trained in a specific topic, and their detection of heat is their only sense rather than their "sixth sense," so maybe they don't qualify, but at the same time, they functionally give a "sixth sense" to the person using them. I'm not sure, so you should ask someone else about this one.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

This varies a bit. An ability being supernatural is required for something like supernatural willpower, since it's distinct from peak human willpower in that way. However, in general on the VS Battles Wiki, there being a supernatural aspect isn't a solid requirement. As long as someone is listing an ability for its notability as a better than mundane specialty, and not for a technicality that would belong in something like a hypothetical list of minor limited standard human abilities, then it can count as an ability on the VS Battles Wiki. Outside of the VS Battles Wiki, there may be other standards under which people can classify things more leniently or more strictly.

To be precise in regards to the examples you used:

• The word precognition means "foreknowledge of an event, especially foreknowledge of a paranormal kind," and note that the "especially" attributed to the paranormality implies that the word can be used to not refer to paranormality even though it's usually associated with it. Outside of the VS Battles Wiki, you can use the word "precognition" to refer to natural prediction and it would be grammatically correct, albeit potentially confusing. However, on the VS Battles Wiki, that would be incorrect, since the Precognition page clarifies that "precognition" is explicitly meant as in divination, which always refers to knowing the future supernaturally, or analytical prediction, which is the ability to predict the future without truly knowing it, but the best kinds of analytical prediction are similar to divination.
• Extrasensory perception on the VS Battles Wiki is the sixth sense ability to detect energy signatures, matter signatures, or the like near the user. I recall that a "sixth sense" can be achieved in real life with enough training in a specific topic, which seems to be an application the VS Battles Wiki can accept due to how one of the official possible uses is that it "can be used to predict the opponent's movements" like analytical prediction, but I also think this ability often has a supernatural connotation that can't be replicated in real life like that. Night vision goggles are neither supernatural nor highly trained in a specific topic, and their detection of heat is their only sense rather than their "sixth sense," so maybe they don't qualify, but at the same time, they functionally give a "sixth sense" to the person using them. I'm not sure, so you should ask someone else about this one.

Thanks for your unbiased feedback; this debate with my friend should be extra spicy