Solar System level Darth Vader ?

[The_Everlasting]

"ROTJ Luke beating Vader was PIS, the much more powerful DE version was later stated to be much weaker than him."

Completely false.

 

[LordWhis]

Mace in a pure lightsaber sparring match once out of millions of encounters.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@LordWhis, No DE Luke was stated to be only slightly below Sidious.

Also winning via Lightsaber Battle only and it not scaling is completely bull

 

[LordWhis]

@LordWhis, No DE Luke was stated to be only slightly below Sidious.

Also winning via Lightsaber Battle only and it not scaling is completely bull

A slightly after AOTC Kenobi could match Windu in a light saber sparring match, should he be High 4-C too ?

Sidious outright stated that Luke could become as strong as Vader, ergo, he was nowhere near him at the time, at least pre training when he was stated to be much more powerful than ROTJ.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

if that was the case 99 percent of Jedi vs Sith fights wouldnt scale

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

anyway im going to Bed

 

[LordWhis]

anyway im going to Bed

Good night But lightsaber sparring match =/= lightsaber duel

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Sidious outright stated that Luke could become as strong as Vader, ergo, he was nowhere near him at the time, at least pre training when he was stated to be much more powerful than ROTJ."

ROTJ Luke is repeatedly stated to be equal to Vader, DE Luke >> ROTJ Luke and he fought Sidious repeatedly. That definitely trumps one statement.

 

[LordWhis]

"Sidious outright stated that Luke could become as strong as Vader, ergo, he was nowhere near him at the time, at least pre training when he was stated to be much more powerful than ROTJ."

ROTJ Luke is repeatedly stated to be equal to Vader, DE Luke >> ROTJ Luke and he fought Sidious repeatedly. That definitely trumps one statement.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/star...-vs-darth-vader-context-and-circumst-1800921/

 

[Reppuzan]

@Whis

It doesn't change the fact that Luke traded blows with Vader in lightsaber combat, which is heavily dependent on one's strength in the Force unless one has cybernetic enhancements like Grievous.

 

[LordWhis]

@Whis

It doesn't change the fact that Luke traded blows with Vader in lightsaber combat, which is heavily dependent on one's strength in the Force unless one has cybernetic enhancements like Grievous.

That statement was made about Dooku Vs Windu.

 

[LordWhis]

@Shadow

Meaning that Starkiller was unable to actually do any serious damage to Sidious. Sidious was only stunned when his own power was turned back on him, that same power killed Starkiller but left Sidious unscathed.

I've heard it being said that he achieved oneness which was why he was able to that.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lord

Which makes it all the more clear that he is not on Sidious' level, as even after achieving Oneness with the Force he wasn't able to completely defeat him.

 

[LordWhis]

I would also like to say that maul managed to ragdoll sidiois and damage him but we never see anyone considering him to be on sidious's level like people do with Galen.

 

[LordWhis]

@Lord

Which makes it all the more clear that he is not on Sidious' level, as even after achieving Oneness with the Force he wasn't able to completely defeat him.

Never said he was on Sid's level, he's fodder to him obviously.

 

[LordWhis]

But he'd be fodder for Prime Vader too.

Prime Vader >>> TFU 2 Vader > Starkiller > Galen >= TFU Vader.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lord

Maul never managed to ragdoll Sidious. Where the heck are you getting that from?

As soon as Sidious started using the Force, it was Maul who was getting ragdolled.

 

[LordWhis]

@Lord

Maul never managed to ragdoll Sidious. Where the heck are you getting that from?

As soon as Sidious started using the Force, it was Maul who was getting ragdolled.

At some point in their fight he gave Sids some sort of a pitiful force push which was about what Galen did to him & starkiller fans call a ragdoll.

 

[Reppuzan]

That's not ragdolling.

Ragdolling implies that there was a stomp involved.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Um...I don't think Sidious ragdolling Luke is not the best example given that Luke, IIRC, did not know Tutaminas (and even if he did, I doubt he would have had the proficency to counter Sidious at that time) and had thrown away his lightsaber, which he could have used to absorb the lightning.

Back on topic, even if George Lucas states Vader is 80% of Sidious, nothing really backs up that level of power. Word of God doesn't mean anything if it's contradicted by the facts.

Also, comparing Vader to Dooku is not fair on a lot of levels and if needed, I could explain why.

As much as I want Vader to be higher, I just don't see it.

 

[LordWhis]

That's not ragdolling.
Ragdolling implies that there was a stomp involved.

I personally agree, but a lot of people in this thread have referred to a similiar showing by Galen as a ragdoll & I was just observing how nobody seems to wank poor maul despite the fact that his showing against sidious was just as good as Galen's.

 

[Fankid]

Scaling should be involved, like is Sidious 10000000 x Solar System, or base line :

Well it appears to be vaguely far above base line.

Vitiate's profile states that they are of similar power, a being who is far superior to Large Star Level beings.

Due to this, we know he's vastly, vastly above base line Solar Sytem Level.

So Vader could possibly be Solar Sytem Level, however, i'm not really sure what the non canon scaling actually is between Vader and Sidious.

 

[LordWhis]

People here are underestimating a 25 */* power difference, it is actually quite significant & definitely adequate to outclass someone.

 

[Fankid]

Wait, isn't normal non canon Darth Vader listed as Multi Continent Level.

I think in this case it's a little too big of a gap for Vader to be Solar System Level, especially without really any feats for it, sorry.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

 

[Antvasima]

If this topic is brought up frequently, feel free to create a discussion rule about it.

 

[Fankid]

Should this be closed?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Fankid

Literally every staff member knowledgeable on Star Wars disagrees with this. So yes, it should be closed.