Sol vs Dante (Take 2)

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Don't Cry It makes me feel Guilty...Get out before I change my mind"


"Though a Fight every now and then makes life a little more interesting...don't ya think?"

Rules: Both Combatants at 3-A
Speed is Equalized

OST: (Slipknot- The Blister Exists because why not)

Who Wins and Why?

Dragon Install: 0

Devil Trigger: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Simply a copy and paste of last match.

 

[Schnee_One]

Sol does something and wins

 

[DarkGrath]

What exactly are Sol's new buffs? Under the conditions, I do have reason to think that Dante actually would be willing to use sealing, but to get an idea of the win-cons first that seems to be an important detail.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Issue is that going by previous discussions, it's also a projectile and if Sol sees that an opponent can blow him up immediately like that, I doubt he wouldn't use Information Flare which we have accepted as an Information based attack in which Dante cannot resist.

 

[DarkGrath]

I see. Would he really be able to instantly tell that the projectile going for him is dangerous though? It looks a bit different than his other bullets for sure, but I doubt Sol would instantly be able to tell that it was a serious threat.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yes, but Sol is not going to simply let some hit him and can counter it with one of his projectiles.

 

[MYHERO]

But he's lazy ovo

 

[DarkGrath]

What's the AP/Durability difference like? Obviously Dante can't kill him through AP alone due to Regenerationn, but the durability might be important. As far as I'm aware, Dante is at a minimum several dozens of times beyond baseline 3-A, and possibly quite a bit further depending on the scale of one major feat. What's Sol's AP/Durability?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Pretty sure we agreed in the last thread that Sol was stronger physically. Plus, Information hax ignores durability.

 

[DarkGrath]

Well again, looking back through the thread it doesn't seem like he'd be willing to use information hax unless he had to, and the AP advantage for Sol here seems dubious. They did a baseline 3-A feat by purely existing, so I'm fully willing to believe that he could be far beyond that physically. But Dante definitively is far, far beyond a feat that was already massively beyond baseline 3-A.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'd argue that if Sol sees that someone can just think and blow him to pieces that he'd use Information Flare. Even with that, I doubt that he'd sit there and let a bullet from a guy who know he can regenerate to hit him. Sol is no idiot, matter of fact I'd argue he's by far the smartest one here.

 

[Schnee_One]

Why?

It's not like blowing him to pieces will do anything to Sol.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It would be more of the idea that Sol would know this unknown opponent could likely have other techniques that could possibly cause great damage or kill him immediately. Not to mention just the idea that his opponent just blew him to pieces meaning even though it wouldn't kill him, would put him on guard.

 

[Schnee_One]

Also Dante can't actually blow him to pieces either due to the AP gap

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I thought it was a type of Durability Negation though.

 

[Schnee_One]

The profile also notes "To an Extent"

This was discussed on the Shalltear vs Charizard thread, yes your organs are weaker then your main body, but they still to some extent scale to your actual Durability

Considering Sol is like 20x stronger and I'm pretty sure there's a scaling chain behind it AND it's a pretty casual feat, Sol goes "Ow" and slaps

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ah, I see. Also, I've long forgotten about the whole Shal vs Zard stuffs.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway

Dante's only win con is sealing, which gets dodged+He dies before that happens+Redorected etc.

Vote for Sol with extremely low difficulty if this isn't a stomp

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Isn't "over X20 stronger in AP" a AP stomp ? Dante gets one shoted if Sol touches him since in VS Threads we use 7,5X as enough for one shots

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It's kinda "likely" to have Sol do Information Flares when he use DI. "Likely" because it's uncontrollable.

Also isn't Dante above baseline?

 

[DarkGrath]

Yes, Dante is very, very far beyond baseline. He's scaled with multipliers based on a feat that we know is far beyond baseline, but by an unknown amount. The current "low-ball" estimate, assuming that the feat is purely baseline (which is unrealistic), he is at least several dozens of times beyond baseline; but he could easily be far, far beyond that. The idea that Sol's AP is 20x beyond Dante's is a really weird assumption.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

DI Sol's AP is scaled from virtually limitless energy so he's still have an edge when it comes at their absolute best but yeah it's weird, I think they should be somewhat comparable. At worst Dante is bit lower.

 

[DarkGrath]

Could you elaborate on what the "virtually limitless energy" is from? All I've heard is that his feat is based on destroying a universe through his presence.

By the way, I'm not saying that from a doubtful standpoint; just a genuinely curious one. I don't know too much about Sol, but to get an accurate vote for this match I'd like to know as much as possible and that seems like an important detail.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It's in the blog and profile, look at it. Saint Oratorio is a limitless energy and he literally caught it and kickstarted the Junkyard so he can use another Saint Oratorio blast.

 

[DarkGrath]

I see.

So this is a matchup where one character has a massive AP/Durability advantage, hax that they are willing to use that could one-shot their opponent, along with their opponent only having one single win-con that can be easily nullified in many varied in-character ways.

Yeah, gotta be honest. I often play devil's advocate in these kinds of matches purely to nail out any possible win-cons for either side, but this is basically a stomp for Sol.

 

[Schnee_One]

Like I said

Dante's only wincon is sealing, which is avoidable

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah. Again, I've got to agree that this is a stomp.

If their only win-con is easily avoidable through methods that are used in-character, then they might as well not even have a win-con.

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean people say that having a win con means it isn't a stomp even if someone wins before the ppponent can even fight at the start of the Match IE Star Wars, Rohan etc.

Yet there are people who say a not even 3x AP advantage and skill advantage are enough to make a fight a stomp

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Wait, who said Sol uses sealing? It's pretty much out of character.

 

[Schnee_One]

No one we're talking Dante

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Oh sorry.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I mean people say that having a win con means it isn't a stomp even if someone wins before the ppponent can even fight at the start of the Match IE Star Wars, Rohan etc.

This actually needs to be more clearly defined on whether it's a stomp or not. Because if it is then every single fight that involves a user that uses mind hax, or a similar ability that instantly ends the fight, and leads with it will always 100% be a stomp.

 

[Schnee_One]

It will never, be "clearly defined"

Every single person has a different view on what a stomp is and isn't, even case by case isn't consistent enough to tell what it is at times

It doesn't help that people will constantly change their view when a character they know and like is losing.

DMUA made two threads trying to clarify it, and we basically failed on both outside of removing passive matches, despite the fact that they are basically the exact same as matches where the opponent shoots first.

 

[Dragopentling]

BUMP