So, What Is Prep Time?

[Moritzva]

Standard Battle Assumptions defines just about every setup condition that can be normally added to a debate. So, what's it's definition of Prep Time, anyways?

Preparation time: None. That means there is no time between the character knowing there is going to be some battle and the point they may start killing each other. They are, in a single instant, transported to the battlefield from their everyday activities, equipped with their equipment, transformed to the character version they battle in and given the correct state of mind. In the same instant the battle starts and they may attack each other. They are assumed to not be surprised or disorientated from the sudden start.
	~ SBA​

Ah.

So, What Is The Problem?
As it is, Preparation Time really has no definition of all. Standard Battle Assumptions only gives a comment on the definition of the lack of it, Preparation describes how some people use it in fiction, but no page on this site describes our definition of what Prep Time is.

Normally, this wouldn't be too big of a deal. Preparation Time sounds pretty self-explanatory. It just means that you can prepare in advance.

The problem comes in that, in the lack of any proper definition of Preparation Time, there isn't actually a standardized idea of what can and can not be done while you are preparing to kill the opponent. Composite Human brought these questions up a lot, but just because he's gone doesn't mean that the problems aren't still there. Questions such as, can you prepare the battlefield? Can you sabotage the opponent's battlefield preparations? Do you know exactly where the opponent will spawn in? Can you research your opponent?

Naturally, it's up to the OP to clarify, but there should be a standardized definition of what Preparation Time is in lack of the original poster defining. As Promestei called it - PTA. Prep Time Assumptions.

I propose that a small category be added to the end of Standard Battle Assumptions, which would be the following:

Preparation Time
Preparation Time is an optional condition that the thread creator can add for either character in an attempt to either allow them to optimize on preparation abilities or similar advantages to make a match fair. When Preparation is given to one or more characters, the following is assumed:

• An individual with prep time can use it to research their opponent and their abilities (through media, magical abilities, or other), but would not be able to see the opponent's use of prep time, if applicable.
• Prep Time can be used to set up machinations and traps on the battlefield, and neither side will know of or see the opponent's setup until the battle starts.
• An individual with Prep Time can not at all attack or sabotage the opponent before the battle starts. They also do not know exactly where the opponent is going to be starting when the battle starts, only a general idea.
• An individual with Prep Time is assumed to have reasonable access to the materials they would need to prepare for the incoming battle. They will have access to any equipment they are shown to often use, and can create devices that they'd reasonably be able to put together, but will not have access to items they have not been shown to use that they can not reasonably replicate on their own.
• An individual with Prep Time may choose where they start the battle, but only within the allowed starting distance.

Now, I am willing to discuss the exact terms and assumptions for Prep Time, as well as add others, but I believe all of these are reasonable given assumptions.

• Many characters, such as Batman, heavily rely on knowing their opponents to prepare for them, and many others prize information very highly, so it is reasonable to assume that they can obtain prior knowledge of the enemy. But, they can not see enemy preparations, for reasons I'll outline below.
• Naturally, setting up traps and devices to assist you in battle are very important to battle. Rick Sanchez, The Joker, and various super villains enjoy spending the time to set up their lair to make sure they have the upper hand in their games. But, being able to see the enemy preparations causes issues, for reasons below.
• Being able to sabotage preparations, in the end, means the battle has started before it actually started. It brings into question: Can you stop the opponent from sabotaging your devices? What if this means hurting them? And if you're hurting them, doesn't that mean the battle has already begun? Overall, it makes preparation time needlessly complicated.
• Preparation means very little if you aren't allowed to have the resources needed to actually use any of it. If the thread creator wants to limit a character's resources, they should say so.
• Someone with Prep Time can choose where they are when the battle starts, but being able to get in a rocket and fly into outer space is a bit too odd to be officially allowed by Standard Battle Assumptions. They should at least stay within the Starting Distance given by the OP.

Overall, I'm willing to listen to suggestions, and this thread is meant to be a discussion as to exactly what preparation time means. Leave ideas and comments below. Thanks for your time.

 

[Promestein]

I'm good with these assumptions.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Vsauce music intensifies.

I'm fine with what you have.

 

[Tago238]

There is also the question of whether characters would have access to things within their verse. A lot of the time if it is about a genius inventor or whatever preparing its more about what they could possibly invent in a certain situation when given time, however there is also the question of whether they can obtain items or equipment found only in their verse and are unable to be replicated by aforementioned inventor.

I don't really know but I wonder if it would be a good idea to create a definition page with definitions as to what prep could mean listed like you have done here, and categorised by certain types which can be used by the person creating the versus threads as I think it would be better to have more flexible means to create such threads.

 

[Moritzva]

There is also the question of whether characters would have access to things within their verse. A lot of the time if it is about a genius inventor or whatever preparing its more about what they could possibly invent in a certain situation when given time, however there is also the question of whether they can obtain items or equipment found only in their verse and are unable to be replicated by aforementioned inventor.
I don't really know but I wonder if it would be a good idea to create a definition page with definitions as to what prep could mean listed like you have done here, and categorised by certain types which can be used by the person creating the versus threads

I would say the first would depend on their verse - have they had access to it in their verse before? If not, then unless the setting is placed inside of their verse, no. SBA, by default, places them in Central Park outside of either verse, but under the proposed rules, they'd have access to their normal equipment. I'll clarify in the original post.

How I imagine it is like, Iron Man (Marvel Cinematic Universe) can't use Prep Time to go out and collect all the Infinity Stones, as that's obviously well beyond the scope of what he can do, unless the OP says that he can. In which case, it probably can't be added.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

This is good

 

[Wokistan]

What if you have powers like precog abilities that would account for opposing prep as a consequence of their function? If I gave say, Contessa prep time and her opponent prep time, how would that even work if PtV doesn't factor in the prep it knows is going to happen?

 

[Moritzva]

If someone has Precognition, Path to Victory, or similar, then the user should be able to see enemy preparations and actions, but can't directly interfere, as that would be starting the battle. She would be able to plan accordingly.

 

[ElixirBlue]

@Moritzva

I got a question about Prep Time.

Dr. Eggman (especially Archie) is Notoriously powerful with Prep time. However, he is also Notorious SBA to never repeat the same power or method in his plans.

So for a Dr. Eggman vs thread with prep time, do we ignore SBA when giving Eggman Prep time? At least on some level, like never using the power again in the same way?

 

[Wokistan]

I don't see what that has to do wit hSBA.

 

[ElixirBlue]

SBA, Eggman would never lead with something he has used before.

 

[Moritzva]

@Moritzva
I got a question about Prep Time.

Dr. Eggman (especially Archie) is Notoriously powerful with Prep time. However, he is also Notorious SBA to never repeat the same power or method in his plans.

So for a Dr. Eggman vs thread with prep time, do we ignore SBA when giving Eggman Prep time? At least on some level, like never using the power again in the same way?

So Dr. Eggman, in-character never uses the same plan twice? Well, then that's what it is. If he's in-character by the thread creator's discretion, he won't do it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

? Then how does we approach this in vs matches? He always make something new in character.

 

[Moritzva]

? Then how does we approach this in vs matches? He always make something new in character.

What has he previously done in canon, in that key? He won't do that.

It's not really a discussion to be had here, though. I'm not knowledgable with Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Hm... :/ I guess that part of SBA for him should be ignored.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't see the issue here. If it's ooc for him to repeat things, then that's how it is. Things he's done in other vs threads wouldn't count since they aren't canon.

 

[ElixirBlue]

There was an argument in a Silver vs thread that Silver won't lead with Time Stop, even if he is Bloodlusted. While he does have the Time Stop ability, he'll never use it 1st.

Eggman never uses anything twice SBA and always creates something new. We can't have him create anything new for vs matches, So how can we properly tell what he would lead with with prep time?

 

[Moritzva]

Bloodlusted doesn't mean they'll do anything else except fight with the fullest intent to kill. Wether that means starting with Time Stop or not has nothing to do with prep time.

Look at Eggman's last inventions. Is there a general idea of what he usually does? Usually, he makes robots.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Hm... it's not that simple...

But eh, I don't want to clog up the thread about 1 character. I was just wondering if Prep Time allows characters to lead with their best weapon or not.

 

[Wokistan]

If it's in character for them to do so then yes. That's the general rule, if eggman has a more specific problem it's probably better to make your own thread concerning that.

 

[Moritzva]

Precisely what Wokistan said.

Since this is a decently important thing, editting SBA, should it be highlighted?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Probably.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

This but also I'd like some SBA on previous knowledge as well.

Also what the ****?

Since when and why the hell was Composite Human removed?

 

[Moritzva]

This but also I'd like some SBA on previous knowledge as well.
Also what the ****?

Since when and why the hell was Composite Human removed?

It's complicated.

Prior Knowledge can be it's own thread. It'll probably be a short one.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

Can i get a link to a thread or something

 

[PsychoWarper]

This all looks pretty good to me and its definetly good to define prep time and its various uses in a battle.

 

[Moritzva]

Bump. Seems pretty well-accepted.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

Can i get a link to a thread or something

 

[Moritzva]

Bump. I apologize, Bedroombedrock, I don't have the thread link on me.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

It's alright

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask other staff members to help out with evaluating this as well. I am uninterested in versus threads, so I am likely the wrong person to do so.

 

[Moritzva]

Bump. Can this be applied?

 

[Antvasima]

Wiki policy changes like this preferably need more staff input than usual.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask several of our administrators to comment here: VS Battles Staff

 

[Moritzva]

Right, which is why I inquired to you. Promestein among many other staff seem to find it fine, and I've seen no opposition, though.

 

[Antvasima]

I only noticed Promestein and Wokistan giving agreement, and I am the wrong person to ask about this.

 

[Moritzva]

I'll ask more staff members, then.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Greenshifter]

So if 2 characters have prep, they can both choose where they start and the one person will have a general idea of where the other person will start?

 

[Moritzva]

They'd, say, both know the other would be within a ~4 kilometer range at Central Park, assuming their ranges are at 4 kilometers by SBA.

(I added that clause, because placing bombs underneath the opponent's starting point is pretty dumb, by SBA.)