SnO Anime canon keys

[Freedomstar]

The anime movies for Sora No Otoshimono replaced season 3 and take place during the Hiyori arc towards the ending of the manga. However, it is an anime some things have changed making the anime primary canon (following the manga) and anime canon.

Hiyori has the power to use time and space all at once for her attacks to the point that the time/space continuum would be destroyed. Ikaros's shield was stated to contain that collapse.


We also have Base Chaos almost obliterating Astraea's shield which is stronger than Ikaros. Also shown in the anime when Chaos fought Astraea season 2 episode 8.




Not only that Chaos was able to tank multiple hits from Zeus which is Synapse's strongest Weapon and as stated in the movie Synapse destroyed many parallel worlds (that have many timelines within them and each universe has multiple planes)

Starting at 14:38

Hiyori took the collapse of time/space into the hyperdimension. It was there she saw a number of parallel universes and many different timelines within them. She saw countless pasts and infinite futures. She went on to say she looked through all those timelines and saw Tomoki only existed in one universe and only one timeline within it.

Which means each universe has multiple timelines. Hiyori almost destroyed the space-time continuum of the main universe. Synapse created and can destroy the hyperdimension. Synapse's strongest weapon is Zeus needed to be at full power to fight Ikaros in both forms. While Ikaros is not stronger it is still worth putting Zeus needs to be at full power. Chaos took multiple shots unphased before she evolved using the cores of 100+ melans. Astraea was able to easily oneshot her in her Pandora 2 mode.


With anime keys
Synapse Core needs to be upgraded to Tier 1 for creating a hyperdimension with Parallel universes with several planes of existence that have multiple timelines that have countless pasts and infinite futures.

Base Ikaros and Astraea were holding back against Hiyori using time and space all at once for attacks. They also scale to Zeus as it stated while Ikaros is weaker than Zeus it needs to be at full power to defeat her. They should be Tier 2-A. Hiyori was looking through infinite futures and past and they were all destroyed by Synapse. Zeus is Sysnapse's strongest large-scale weapon.

Chaos should be upgraded to Tier 2-A for fighting Ikaros and Astraea. She also withstanding Zeus' power.

Hiyori should be tier 2 for manipulating the space-time continuum which has multiple timelines.

 

[Flashlight237]

"However, it is an anime some things have changed making the anime primary canon (following the manga) and anime canon."

Are you trying to say the anime is the primary canon, that the anime that follows closely to the manga is canon, or that anime canon and anime filler should be separated here? Because the wording here's confusing.

 

[Freedomstar]

I am so sorry. I meant to say the anime is an adaptation of the manga. The anime follows the manga but changes things like Hiyori controlled weather in the manga but only controlled space-time in the anime. The story is still the same but a change like that makes it anime canon.

Which is why they should receive anime keys.

 

[Freedomstar]

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Freedomstar]

@Antvasima @LephyrTheRevanchist

Thoughts on the keys for Anime canon?

The anime is canon to the manga and the movies are canon to the Hiyori arc down to the end of the manga. The movies are anime canon due to some changes. They should still be added to their profiles.

 

[Omazio2019]

The "countless pasts and infinite futures" part is nowhere to be found in the original movie

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thoughts on the keys for Anime canon?

The rules can be read here. To quote them

Certain anime & manga franchises also run into similar problems. For instance, Dragon Ball possesses numerous alternative continuity games, and non-canon movies. Other large scale franchises often run into similar problems, containing numerous non-canonical spin-offs and alternate continuities.

However, problem can arise from this: If one were to allow all alternate and/or non-canon versions of said characters, we would eventually be crowded with dozens of alternate profiles for the same characters. As such, certain limitations must be placed:

1) Certain franchises feature several characters that are considered as equally valid "official" versions of the character. These types of profiles can generally be created without any problems.

Ex: The Golden Age, Silver Age, and Post-Crisis versions of Superman, and the different incarnations of Link from The Legend of Zelda.

2) Alternative Canon/Non-Canonical profiles for Marvel and DC Comics can only be created if the version in question proves relevant/notable enough, through popularity and/or number of issues present.

Ex: Superman from the Kingdom Come storyline, and All-Star Superman are relevant enough to warrant profiles, and have displayed enough feats and information for reasonably accurate statistics. Meanwhile, characters from Marvel's alternative "What If?" timelines are generally far too limited in relevance, appearances, and feats to be featured.

3) Should said alternative versions originate within the main continuity, they would also be considered primary canon, and allowed, if notable enough.

Ex: Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor Superman, the DC One Million characters, and the Earth-3 Crime Syndicate of America all originate within mainstream comics, and feature interactions with the primary DC Characters. Similarly, the Marvel Ultimate Universe was a prominent comicbook line for a considerable time, and the two continuities have recently merged into one, so profiles from said verse are also allowed, as long as proper feats and scaling can be found for the statistics.

4) Franchises which contain non-canonical spin-offs/movies/videogames, et cetera, each with their own continuities and feats, yet not to the extent that Marvel and DC Comics do, should only be allowed profiles for notable original characters from said spin-offs, and not alternate versions of canonical characters, unless they are very prominent and notable.

Ex: Main villains from non-canonical movies of Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, One Piece and the like can be allowed profiles, yet most versions of Son Goku contained in games such as Shin Budokai should not, as the only difference they hold from Canon Goku lies in their extent of power. However, given the prominence and popularity of Dragon Ball GT, alternative versions of Goku and Vegeta from this continuity have been allowed. If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created.

5) Certain franchises also contain a variety of spin-offs and alternate continuities, yet justify their existence due to in-series Multiverses. In such cases, Rule Number 3 still applies, albeit to a lesser scale. Original characters from said works are all allowed, yet alternate versions of original canon characters should not be abused.

Ex: Both the Puella Magi Madoka Magica and the Saint Seiya Franchises explain all of their Spin-Off mangas as alternate timelines, and profiles for characters originating from said works are allowed.

However, if it is obscure, does not have enough of a distinctive story to even qualify as a separate character (such as if it originates within a fighting game), and very limited information to scale the statistics from, it should likely not be featured.

Just having slightly different story beats or wording isn't enough to justify the existence of a profile. You have to show difference in story arcs like in GT or alternate material like with Saint Seiya.

 

[Freedomstar]

The "countless pasts and infinite futures" part is nowhere to be found in the original movie

The movie is a licensed dubbed by Funimation. So I don't get what you recall original movie? In fact in the same Hiyori basically says the same thing she saw a number of parallel worlds and different timelines. If anything the dubb is more precise.

 

[Freedomstar]

The rules can be read here. To quote them


Just having slightly different story beats or wording isn't enough to justify the existence of a profile. You have to show difference in story arcs like in GT or alternate material like with Saint Seiya.

I wasn't trying to make a profile. I was suggesting an anime key. Also the very rules you say talk about numerous alterative when I talking about one.

 

[Omazio2019]

The movie is a licensed dubbed by Funimation. So I don't get what you recall original movie? In fact in the same Hiyori basically says the same thing she saw a number of parallel worlds and different timelines. If anything the dubb is more precise.

Original movie is just my way of referring the Japanese raw material where the later dubb originates. In jap ver, she said she'd observed a few/number (singular) parallel worlds and timelines from past to future, and suddenly this "countless pasts and infinite futures" (plural) came out of nowhere so I'm questioning the validity of the dubb.

 

[Freedomstar]

Original movie is just my way of referring the Japanese raw material where the later dubb originates. In jap ver, she said she'd observed a few/number (singular) parallel worlds and timelines from past to future, and suddenly this "countless pasts and infinite futures" (plural) came out of nowhere so I'm questioning the validity of the dubb.

The movie you posted on YT isn't even the original sub from licensed funamation. I'm confused about where you are getting off at? She stated in the original she saw a number of which literally means several to many and the dubbed is more precise about that number.

 

[Omazio2019]

The movie you posted on YT isn't even the original sub from licensed funamation. I'm confused about where you are getting off at? She stated in the original she saw a number of which literally means several to many and the dubbed is more precise about that number.

I'm not just talking about the subtitle, but the original text. In both versions, she said "a number", yes, but the "countless pasts and infinite futures" never exist in original text, she never mention the number from beginning. Here is the original text that she said in Japanese
いくつかの並行世界や他の時間軸の世界を見てきました。過去、未来。
(Ikutsu ka no heikō sekai ya hoka no jikan-jiku no sekai o mitekimashita. Kako, mirai.)
[I've seen several parallel worlds and other timelines. In the past, or the future.]
いくつか/Ikutsu ka in Japanese means several but it's still countable number, never an uncountable number like countless or infinite.
In some cases, the English vers do not accurately represent its Jap, even adding details that did not exist in the original work even though it was official. For example: Pokémon, Xenoblades, ...
Such things like that are controversial to be put into use and got rejected for most of the time.
I think it's better to leave it as 2-C for several timelines and parallel worlds until more convincing evidences of infinite timelines are found.

 

[Freedomstar]

I'm not just talking about the subtitle, but the original text. In both versions, she said "a number", yes, but the "countless pasts and infinite futures" never exist in original text, she never mention the number from beginning. Here is the original text that she said in Japanese
いくつかの並行世界や他の時間軸の世界を見てきました。過去、未来。
(Ikutsu ka no heikō sekai ya hoka no jikan-jiku no sekai o mitekimashita. Kako, mirai.)
[I've seen several parallel worlds and other timelines. In the past, or the future.]
いくつか/Ikutsu ka in Japanese means several but it's still countable number, never an uncountable number like countless or infinite.
In some cases, the English vers do not accurately represent its Jap, even adding details that did not exist in the original work even though it was official. For example: Pokémon, Xenoblades, ...
Such things like that are controversial to be put into use and got rejected for most of the time.
I think it's better to leave it as 2-C for several timelines and parallel worlds until more convincing evidences of infinite timelines are found.

The subbed animation came out on Funimation and got dubbed through the same company.
The subtitles are accurate.

Hiyori left the universe to contain the collapse of time-space and she entered a hyperdimension in Sub "which is a higher dimensional space beyond our own space-time. That higher dimensional space contains parallel universes and universes of other timelines. Meaning the existence of SnO is higher dimensionality." She saw parallel worlds and universes of different time axis. She looks through the past and future.

VS

Hiyori stated in the dubbed she teleported from the universe and wandered through dimensions where she saw countless past and infinite futures.

Either way between the subbed stating above the universe and its parallel universes there is a Hyperdimension which refers to dimensions beyond the fourth dimension (time) and the Dubbed stated she wandered dimensions looking at countless past and infinite futures sounds similar to me.

The 3-D universe SnO is already a parallel universe to another manga created by the same Author. And that manga has parallel dimensions within that story.

 

[Qawsedf234]

. I was suggesting an anime key

An anime key isn't allowable, since that's mixing canons. Its either one or the other and generally unless its some radically different story anime profiles aren't useable.

 

[Freedomstar]

An anime key isn't allowable, since that's mixing canons. Its either one or the other and generally unless its some radically different story anime profiles aren't useable.

It would fall under this right?
3) Should said alternative versions originate within the main continuity, they would also be considered primary canon, and allowed, if notable enough.

Ex: Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor Superman, the DC One Million characters, and the Earth-3 Crime Syndicate of America all originate within mainstream comics, and feature interactions with the primary DC Characters. Similarly, the Marvel Ultimate Universe was a prominent comicbook line for a considerable time, and the two continuities have recently merged into one, so profiles from said verse are also allowed, as long as proper feats and scaling can be found for the statistics.

The anime series and the follow-up movies from the anime are based on the manga. The movie Clockwork is based on the Hiyori arc in the manga. Hiyori is an angel from heaven who sleeps as an avatar to live on Earth. If that avatar dies, an angel can never live that same dream/life again. My eternal master is based on the middle to the end of the manga.

1. Hiyori in the manga had the power of Weather manipulation
2. Hiyori in the movie had the power to manipulate the Time-Space continuum
3. Hiyori traveled several parallel worlds, but Tomoki only exists in the main one. It was never mentioned in the manga but it explains when the timeline was being warped he wasn't affected.
4. Mikako is an angel. Mikako is one of main human castmembers who knew Tomoki existed in only one timeline.
5. Mikako who is supposed to be a human but yet shown as an angel who hacked Ikaros after she attacked Babylon. It was stated Ikaros malfunctioned when flying back to Synapse but never why.
6. Chaos never had an adult form when she fought Ikaros, Nymph, and Astraea
7. The last fight in season 2 of SnO didn't even happen in the manga with Chaos vs angeloids
8. Hiyori took the collapse of space-time to a higher dimension. Meanwhile, in the manga, she was under the control of the Lord of Synapse and had the power of weather manipulation.
9. Nymph evolved into Pandora mode and freed Hiyori from Lord Mino's control in the manga. In the anime, Nymph only achieved pandora mode off-screen when she hacked Zeus. Hiyori had a dimensional self-destruct from using space-time all at once. Nymph could try to hack it because if she failed Hiyori along with space-time would fade. Nymph was in base form and didn't achieve pandora.
10. Chaos was in the home chilling with everyone as if nothing happened. In the manga after fighting the angeloids she spent most of time in Japan trench.
11. Astraea doesn't transfer to Sorami Middle School, but she does in the anime.
12. In the manga, the scene where Nymph's wings grow back after hearing Tomoki saying "I'll be the master" is after first Chaos' battle. However, in the anime, it occurs in the middle of the second Chaos' battle. That second fight doesn't happen in the manga at all.
13. When Hiyori's avatar died Synapse warped the planet of her avatar's existence so everyone forgot about her. However, in the anime, Tomoki resisted this warping of the rule. In his sleep, he was fighting that warping in pain. In the manga, it was actually him in pain in sleep because Hiyori was turned into an angeloid and with her weather powers lowered the pressure to her return to Earth.

Meaning that while the anime does follow the main continuity it branched off into its own ever since Chaos debut. Her debut and onward are completely different from the manga.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Meaning that while the anime does follow the main continuity it branched off into its own ever since Chaos debut. Her debut and onward are completely different from the manga.

The thing you quoted was for canonical alternate universes. What you posted wasn't an alternate universe but an adaptation of a work being different from the original.

For point 3 to be valid you'd have to show that the anime is a canonical parallel world.

 

[Freedomstar]

Sorry I meant number 4
"4) Franchises which contain non-canonical spin-offs/movies/videogames, et cetera, each with their own continuities and feats, yet not to the extent that Marvel and DC Comics do, should only be allowed profiles for notable original characters from said spin-offs, and not alternate versions of canonical characters, unless they are very prominent and notable.

Ex: Main villains from non-canonical movies of Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, One Piece and the like can be allowed profiles, yet most versions of Son Goku contained in games such as Shin Budokai should not, as the only difference they hold from Canon Goku lies in their extent of power. However, given the prominence and popularity of Dragon Ball GT, alternative versions of Goku and Vegeta from this continuity have been allowed. If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created."

This would apply to the SnO movies only which is everything I posted about is related to.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This would apply to the SnO movies only which is everything I posted about is related to.

It wouldn't be allowed for them though. It would be for character's unique for that movie and maybe an anime specific profile if scaling is needed.

 

[Freedomstar]

It wouldn't be allowed for them though. It would be for character's unique for that movie and maybe an anime specific profile if scaling is needed.

The rules don't say it has to be a unique character in those movies. It just says here is an example. "yet most versions of Son Goku contained in games such as Shin Budokai should not, as the only difference they hold from Canon Goku lies in their extent of power." It is stated as an example most game versions of Goku are basically his canon self and the only difference is their extent of power. It says GT characters are accepted due to popularity and Sora No Otoshimono is a popular anime. It always says "If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created." The movies aren't canon to the manga despite the writer showing them in the manga.

Unless..... You want to go by the writer acknowledging he approves of the anime and movies in the manga and making a whole chapter about it.

Or him mentioning he oversees the anime

Or the company of Sora No Otoshimono said the final movie is canon to the manga

 

[Qawsedf234]

It says GT characters are accepted due to popularity and Sora No Otoshimono is a popular anime

GT Characters are accepted because of the entire run being an unique storyline and characters also being different. GT Goku acts and functions as a different person the DBS Goku.

Unless..... You want to go by the writer acknowledging he approves of the anime and movies in the manga and making a whole chapter about it.

The former doesn't make them in the same canon and the later referencing them also doesn't make them into the same canon. The fact that you can name multiple plot differences and changes already means they couldn't both be telling the same story.

Or the company of Sora No Otoshimono said the final movie is canon to the manga

I can't read Japanese so this means nothing.

 

[Freedomstar]

GT Characters are accepted because of the entire run being an unique storyline and characters also being different. GT Goku acts and functions as a different person the DBS Goku.

The former doesn't make them in the same canon and the later referencing them also doesn't make them into the same canon. The fact that you can name multiple plot differences and changes already means they couldn't both be telling the same story.

I can't read Japanese so this means nothing.

What was mostly named above was the anime series. The movies are non-canon. They are like DBZ movies their own continuity is based on the anime/manga is not canon to that manga.
However, given the prominence and popularity of Dragon Ball GT, alternative versions of Goku and Vegeta from this continuity have been allowed. If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created."
DB GT still plays off the continuity of DBZ. It is expected due to the storyline which makes it its own continuity. The same reason SnO movies play the continuity of the manga/anime series but it is its own continuity due to the movies branching off and telling their own story.

So let me get this straight... The angeloid Clockwork and My Eternal Master can't get a page for non-canon movies. But non-canon pages can be created for DBZ characters who have pages already like Cell, Frieza, etc. I hate to do it but I think you're being biased. Have you ever watched the movies? I'm asking a serious question. Because you can't be in a place of power on this site saying yay or nay if you haven't watched them.

In fact looking Toei DB
"The official TV adaptation of the Dragon Ball manga continuity, the main Dragon Ball Z anime follows a relatively similar plot to the manga, with Son Goku and his friends and children protecting the Earth and the universe from villains threatening to destroy or conquer them. Several new original storylines are added to its continuity in the form of anime only content and thirteen theatrical films, some of which are integrated into the main anime, and others following alternate timelines and scenarios"

This is literally the same thing SnO has with movies. Both were theatrical releases and have new storylines added to its continuity while following a relatively similar plot to the manga.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So let me get this straight... The angeloid Clockwork and My Eternal Master can't get a page for non-canon movies. But non-canon pages can be created for DBZ characters who have pages already like Cell, Frieza, etc. I hate to do it but I think you're being biased.

Well that was my point here:

It would be for character's unique for that movie and maybe an anime specific profile if scaling is needed.

An anime key itself for a movie isn't a justification. You can have an anime version of a character if its a requirement for a movie only person for scaling, but on their own you need to show a healthy difference in source material to justify an anime version. Its why Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy or Deku don't have anime keys. Because those are just source adaption without enough plot changes for it to mean anything.

This is literally the same thing SnO has with movies. Both were theatrical releases and have new storylines added to its continuity while following a relatively similar plot to the manga.

The most this would do is allow the creation of an anime only character page. You wouldn't be able to give a manga / anime key on the same page.

 

[Freedomstar]

Well that was my point here:

An anime key itself for a movie isn't a justification. You can have an anime version of a character if its a requirement for a movie only person for scaling, but on their own you need to show a healthy difference in source material to justify an anime version. Its why Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy or Deku don't have anime keys. Because those are just source adaption without enough plot changes for it to mean anything.

The most this would do is allow the creation of an anime only character page. You wouldn't be able to give a manga / anime key on the same page.

I was mistaken I thought some profiles were given anime keys for the versions

Yes, I was trying to get something created solely for the anime not scaling from the manga.

 

[Freedomstar]

bump

The page for example

Ikaros (Sora No Otoshimono movies)

Attack Potency: At least Low Complex Multiverse (Held back fighting in base mode against Hiyori using Time and Space too much all at once that the continuum was going to disappear. It was stated that all dimensions share the same Space-Time continuum connected to Synapse. Hiyori stated she was about to see countless pasts and infinite futures) | Low Complex Multiverse (Ikaros is even stronger with Pandora Mode. Synapse created a Hyperdimension filled with parallel dimensions with infinite pasts and futures. Hiyori stated in one future Synapse destroyed all the worlds. Minos created Zeus as Synapse's strongest weapon to be able to deal with Pandora Ikaros.)

This movie scaling would only go for Ikaros and Astraea as they are the most popular characters instead of creating a lot of pages.

 

[DarkMatterEnergy254]

bump

The page for example

Ikaros (Sora No Otoshimono movies)

Attack Potency: At least Low Complex Multiverse (Held back fighting in base mode against Hiyori using Time and Space too much all at once that the continuum was going to disappear. It was stated that all dimensions share the same Space-Time continuum connected to Synapse. Hiyori stated she was about to see countless pasts and infinite futures) | Low Complex Multiverse (Ikaros is even stronger with Pandora Mode. Synapse created a Hyperdimension filled with parallel dimensions with infinite pasts and futures. Hiyori stated in one future Synapse destroyed all the worlds. Minos created Zeus as Synapse's strongest weapon to be able to deal with Pandora Ikaros.)

This movie scaling would only go for Ikaros and Astraea as they are the most popular characters instead of creating a lot of pages.

Where are the scans that proofs that the Hyperdimension is actually a Higher Dimension? I want to know, yeah a bit late xd