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SMT Revisions 3.0

I will focus on updating them. Also, for Devil Survivor, I will add a Tier 8-C for Beginning of Game which the scale to Pixie (Shin Megami Tensei) or Early Game Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei).

They also would get At least 7-B from fighting against Anguished One from mid-game.

I will change the early key durability to their respective keys: At least Multi-City Block level, possibly Multiverse level (Resisted the Akashic Record's multiversal power).

They should lose possibly Multiverse level rating I played the game and they only resisted they Akashic Record's multiversal power when they were fighting Polaris not before.
 
Yobo Blue said:
Miyako Hotsui shouldn't be so low. She has casual 2-A feats before you even fight her.
Click to expand...
I think she should be At least 2-A for her keys earlier because she powerscaled to the casts who killed Polaris before Triangulum Arc. I can make the changes
 
This reminds me that even the weakest Demons should be upgraded from 8-C to 8-C+ thanks to being able to cast spells like Zio, which are basically natural lighting.

While the lighting standards have changed, and tanking lighting isn't 8-C anymore, being able to cast it and to fully concentrate its power on a target still counts as 8-C+ AFAIK.

Regardless, since demons are also able to dodge such spells, this would give them either Massively Hypersonic or Massively Hypersonic+ levels of speed.
 
I agree with your points, DMB 1. According to the Lightning Feats page, the average speed of lighting is Mach 1294 so it would give Massively Hypersonic+ because its range is (Mach 1000-8810.2) from the Speed's page.
 
Something to perhaps note is that in Devil Survivor 2, the cast can fight Beelzebub on the 6th day as a bonus boss, if we're scaling Abel to beating Lucifer, we should probably scale the DS2 cast to beating Beelzebub. There's also a Lilith fight on day 4.
 
If I have to be honest, I disagree with scaling from optional boss if the ending is contradicted. Lucifer is cannonically one of the most powerful demons (level 99) in the game and all the games lorewise surpassing Metatron (Shin Megami Tensei), the final boss. Capable of killing Lucifer even before absorbing the powers of Belberith and Babel- both Belberith and Babel are just 2-A scaling to (Jezebel (Shin Megami Tensei)) being even inferior to Beelzebub (Shin Megami Tensei) who only followed Belberith (Shin Megami Tensei) under Lucifer (Shin Megami Tensei) - hence powerscaling and lore contradiction.

Protagonist (Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor) was still comparable and superior to Metatron (Shin Megami Tensei) in the ending.

Why Merkabah is even in the scaling, also especially since it didn't exist as a demon?
 
Anyway, it's like ignoring the fact that Overclocked happened at all. It's just a different path in the story. If we ignore Lucifer's fight, we have no reason to acknowledge the 8th day routes at all, which makes no sense.
 
Also, I have no idea where you got Beelzebub being stronger then Belberith. They're comparable at best, and that's if we ignore the fact that Belberith has Bel's memories due to being the strongest demon Bel.
 
Yobo Blue said:
Exactly. Thank you for proving my point.
Click to expand...
My point is make no loresense to use the Lucifer (Shin Megami Tensei) since the protagonist can defeated by 2-A characters/bosses, still fearful of defeat in some of those boss fights like Jezebel's and the final boss just give at At least 2-A rating at best.

Also, where is Belberith (Shin Megami Tensei)'s statement that said he absorbs Baal?

Also, I misspoke there is Baal's avatar who is 2-A and comparable to Beelzebub (Shin Megami Tensei) at best - which was most likely absorbed.

Baal needs both Beelzebub (Shin Megami Tensei) and Baal's avatar to manifest at full powers.
 
Except we don't scale bosses by order for a reason. SMT has always been inconsistent in power levels over boss levels. We'd be cherry picking examples if we suddenly said no because Belberith comes afterwards.

During the battle at the Hills.

I believe that was only in the first few SMT games. Part of the issue is that duplicate gods and contradictory entrance methods are caused by Observation.
 
Belberith is essentially the combination of every demon whose name is and/or comes from "Baal". And True Baal is even shown to be directly part of him.

So yeah, it makes sense for him to be superior demonized Beelzebub.
 
I am not scaling boss order, I am scaling the characters tiers who is At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A in those bosses fight, Yobo Blue. One boss is something, but when most major bosses are a lower tiers 2-A, still comparable to the protagonist as they can defeat them, and the characters still wary of them up up to the final boss. There is major contradiction in the scaling.
 
Elizhaa said:
I am not scaling boss order, I am scaling the characters tiers who is At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A in those bosses fight, Yobo Blue. One boss is something, but when most major bosses are a lower tiers 2-A, still comparable to the protagonist as they can defeat them, and the characters still wary of them up up to the final boss. There is major contradiction in the scaling.
Click to expand...
Except if we acknowledged the fact that they defeated them, then we would have to ignore the fact that we do not take into account the possibility of defeat in any other protagonist's page or any demon's for that matter. It is also simply more feasible that it is a result of the inherent inconsistency of SMT boss order.
 
The defeat is not really aproblem as it could be game mechanics. The problem is the wariness of defeat that contradict the tier, Yobo Blue.

Scaling from Lucifer (Shin Megami Tensei) would be scaling from an Outlier because all the other major feat are 2-A up until the final boss which give At least 2-A.

I proposed starting from beginning and having different keys per major events instead like profiles such as Nanashi (Shin Megami Tensei).

From what I see it could go: 8-C scaling from weak demons like Pixie (Shin Megami Tensei) | 2-A scaling the Four Devas and demons like Jezebel | At least 2-A scaling from demons like Metatron | At least 2-A, likely High 2-A scaling from being able to go to war against heavens; like Demi-Fiend's last keys
 
Except that still would imply that we're recognizing the defeat in some manner. Otherwise it wouldn't be an outlier as there are only relatively easily done feats, and no anti-feats.
 
Yobo Blue said:
Except that still would imply that we're recognizing the defeat in some manner. Otherwise it wouldn't be an outlier as there are only relatively easily done feats, and no anti-feats.
Click to expand...
The problem is the scaling is contradicts all the ways to the end which shouldn't be overlook.
 
Except is does not. Multiple endings place Abel above higher 2-A characters like Metatron and the Archangels, and many statements place Abel above Lucifer and close to YHVH. All other supposed contradictions have been debunked.

While we're at it, I'll just point out that going on 1 contradiction still would be nonsensical. By that logic, we'd have Michael at High 2-A for casting out Lucifer and beating him 1v1 and Satan at 2-A because he's equal to Therion who is below Lucifer.
 
Something to note is that it is stated in DS1 that the original Bel was comparable to YHVH, so I don't see why him being stronger than Lucifer would be a problem.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
Something to note is that it is stated in DS1 that the original Bel was comparable to YHVH, so I don't see why him being stronger than Lucifer would be a problem.
Click to expand...
Lorewise, I am fine for it in the last key I posted above.

Scaling from the specific ealier bosses I am not since it highlight boss placement with even before absorbing the powers of Belberith and Babel - in this part of the story and until the final boss, the protagonists just have 2-A feats.
 
Wouldn't that just show that Abel is that strong on his own though? His power doesn't all come from Bel juice. If anything, that might be a feat for Belberith and Babel, not an anti-feat for Abel.

Babel is quite likely to be stronger than Lucifer, it does contain the original power of Bel after all.
 
I mean if we start from begining story feat he would start at 8-C after getting the demon summoning devices like other major protagonists like I have above. I don't think he is any more special in the begining to mid games where he would be 2-A when compared to other protagonists
 
None of the protagonists are really special in any way except Demi-Fiend and Nanashi, and maybe Aleph depending on how we interpret origins.
 
Yeah, but the point I was making is that the Bel power isn't the sole reason for his power, given how other non-Bel humans can reach his level of power as well.
 
Regarding the Merkabah thing, wasn't the specific requirements to form Merkabah that the four Archangels and a "son of man" (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LXfSXDZVrwk around 12:15), if so then Metatron + the four archangels isn't necessarily more powerful (especially considering they were all acting separately and not as a fused being).
 
Yobo Blue said:
None of the protagonists are really special in any way except Demi-Fiend and Nanashi, and maybe Aleph depending on how we interpret origins.
Click to expand...
I mean, Abel is special, being the reincarnation of Bel. Most SMT protags don't get stuff like that.
 
The Divine Phoenix said:
Yobo Blue said:
None of the protagonists are really special in any way except Demi-Fiend and Nanashi, and maybe Aleph depending on how we interpret origins.
Click to expand...
I mean, Abel is special, being the reincarnation of Bel. Most SMT protags don't get stuff like that.
Click to expand...
Abel still start started as a normal human up until he got the demon summing device though.

 
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