SMT Revisions 2.0

[Elizhaa]

Changed End-game to Mid-game.

Fair.

 

[Elizhaa]

Just tell me when you guys are done with the profile edit so I could lock it.

 

[Jaakuace44]

The text formatting is still a little messed up, and I'm not quite sure how to fix it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Jaakuace44, you gotta to used source editor:

• Kindly utilize source mode editing. You can change this to your default editing mode in the preferences settings. Feel free to overview this image to observe a basic example regarding how to properly write profile pages in this editing mode.

 

[DMB_1]

I'm done with Ahriman.

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm done with Ahriman.

Thanks!

 

[Jaakuace44]

Alright, thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind should I wish to create pages in the future.

 

[Elizhaa]

Alright, thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind should I wish to create pages in the future.

Common editing mistakes better summarize the mistakes and the solutions. Jaakuace44, I am glad that you are willing to improve, it is awesome!

 

[Extreme123dz]

Someone remember if in SMT explain what is Magic in general and specific way?

 

[Elizhaa]

Someone remember if in SMT explain what is Magic in general and specific way?

Quick question, did you ever play any of games?

Edit: My mistake, I thought you meant something else regarding magic.

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Magic

 

[DMB_1]

I believe we have a case of circular scaling:

In Noah's profile, this is the AP justification:

• Attack Potency: Multiverse level+ (Should at least be superior to demons such Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel. Contended with a Mid-game Demi-Fiend, who would have fought Beelzebub and Metatro before climbing the Tower of Kagutsuchi on the True Demon Route)

Meanwhile, in Metatro's profile:

• Attack Potency: At least Multiverse level+ (Vastly superior to Kagutsuchi and is one of YHVH's primary and most powerful Avatars, representing his Mind and Voice. His voice alone was compared to the infinite Amala Multiverse administrated by Kagutsuchi. Acts as the last boss of Devil Survivor Overclocked, having battled with Abel after he had absorbed the power of all Bel Demons and became the Overlord, although he was still outclassed by him after he had fully awakened as the King of Bel)

So basically, if I'm understanding this correctly, the profiles are basically saying:

Metarton > Kagutsuchi > Ahriman and Noah > Metatron and Beelzebub.

You see the issue?

 

[Jaakuace44]

Ah, damn. Yeah, that's a pretty big issue.

Just cut that part out, really. Don't know what I was thinking there, honestly.

 

[Elizhaa]

Kagutsuchi

At least Multiverse level+ (The master and overseer of the Amala Network, where Infinite Universes exist, of which billions of Universes are created and destroyed every second. His death led to the entire Amala Network being destroyed and all of time ceasing to be. As stated in the Prophecy of Miroku, his death led to the destruction of Sangai [Past, Present and Future], meaning that the Amala Network was destroyed across all points in time, simultaneously erasing infinite iterations of universe universes that possessed an eternal cycle of Death and Rebirth administrated by Kagutsuchi)

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I am really unsure on scalling Metatron and Beelzebub to Noah and the other Reason Gods too, boss order isn't the best way to scale things in SMT sometimes, especially when it contradicts the already establish scalling, like how Vishnu comes before Asura and Michael in SMT I.

 

[Extreme123dz]

Yep, a lots, and NP, but i want some explanations like Magic in Tensei Slime or Demonbane as example, IDR any explanation what is Magic or his origin, how to use, the risk/price to pay or the virtues, etc, Only that is something can harm demons even in conceptual/information/data level, warping reality, logic, comon senses, physics and Demons can teach humans to use them and learn from them

 

[Jaakuace44]

Both of them should still be superior to the Archangels, so I figure that's decent enough justification for the ranking.

 

[Elizhaa]

Kagutsuchi was 2-A at this time:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kagutsuchi_(Shin_Megami_Tensei)?oldid=2707693

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Metatron_(Shin_Megami_Tensei)?oldid=2703822

 

[Jaakuace44]

I am really unsure on scalling Metatron and Beelzebub to Noah and the other Reason Gods too, boss order isn't the best way to scale things in SMT sometimes, especially when it contradicts the already establish scalling, like how Vishnu comes before Asura and Michael in SMT I.

That won't be necessary, thankfully. Scaling them to the Archangels is definitely more reasonable.

 

[Jaakuace44]

I believe it goes like: Metatron > Kagutsuchi > the Reason bosses > Raphael, Uriel, and Gabriel collectively (pseudo-fiend Chiaki is able to command them even before becoming Baal Avatar)


Not sure where Beelzebub would be placed.

 

[Elizhaa]

I believe it goes like: Metatron > Kagutsuchi > the Reason bosses > Michael, Uriel, and Gabriel collectively (pseudo-fiend Chiaki is able to command them even before becoming Baal Avatar)

Not sure where Beelzebub would be placed.

Beelzebub (Said to be the strongest and most powerful of the Demons who fell from Heaven, leading hordes of them alongside Lucifer Himself. Vastly stronger than Michael and Asura, as well as the Three, Cardinal Archangels and their combined might, having fought against the Demi-Fiend after he had defeated The Three Archangels fighting simultaneously against him)

 

[Extreme123dz]

Above Kahutsuchi, also i think that Michael > Kagutsuchi

 

[Jaakuace44]

I'm just not sure whether he'd be placed above or below Kagutsuchi.

 

[Jaakuace44]

No, Kagutsuchi is far above Michael. Just checked the powerscale chain on UR's blog post.

 

[Elizhaa]

Above Kahutsuchi, also i think that Michael > Kagutsuchi

Kagutsuchi is far above Michael- I agree

(Michael is the highest angel in the Heavenly Hierarchy, and is by far the strongest of the Four Cardinal Archangels who lead God's army, being superior to both Raphael and Uriel to the point where he could do battle with Aleph immediately after he had defeated both of them simultaneously, although despite his position, he is still vastly weaker than Avatars of YHVH such as Kagutsuchi and Metatro)

 

[Jaakuace44]

This is the powerscaling chain in question (mind you, I'm not sure exactly how much of this Ultima still agrees with, so take it with a grain of salt unless they say otherwise)

"YHVH = Brahman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satan >>> The Kuzuryu (Nine-Headed Form) >>> Krishna >> Shesha (Third Resurrection) >= Lucifer (Walter Absorbed) and Merkabah >> The Kuzuryu (One-Headed Form) > Lucifer (Regular Incarnations) >>> The Shekinah >>> Empty Mem Aleph >> Mem Aleph >>> Yaldabaoth (Merged with Metatron) >>>>> Yaldabaoth >>>>>>>>>>> Combined Power of the Four Cardinal Archangels > Metatron >>> The Names of YHVH and the Ancient of Days = Kagutsuchi ∞>>>>>>>>>> Fake YHVH >>> Michael = Asura >> Gabriel, Raphael and Uriel = Lilith and Maya >= Tiamat > Ouroboros"

Note: YHVH is in his High 2-A form here.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

>Tfw I still haven't got around to updating the scalling chain part

It is mostly the same, though, just remove YHVH, Brahman and Satan and take out the excessive amount of ">>"s

 

[Jaakuace44]

That reminds me: I don't think we ever got your opinion on Thor's scaling. Does any of that check out, or are you unsure?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I am a bit unsure, yeah, but I might check how consistent 2-A Thor would be first, before an upgrade is applied.

 

[Elizhaa]

Krishna (Shin Megami Tensei) would be At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A for his first key since Krishna is so powerful that his entrance that Merkabah and Lucifer had to form a temporary alliance to deal with him who both whave the rating. He also would be At least 2-A, possibly High 2-A, likely 1-C for his last key.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Not sure if Vishnu-Flynn would really scale to YHVH, given he was soundly defeated by Nanashi in the Anarchy Route, way before the latter fought with Satan and YHVH.

I am planning to work on his page later, though, since it is one of the few that were left out of the revisions.

 

[Jaakuace44]

The part of his entrance that made Merkabah and Lucifer so spooked was Shesha, I feel.

 

[Jaakuace44]

Yeah, Vishnu-flynn's likely 1-C tier was always a little dubious to me.

At least 2-A, likely High 2-A is defo more accurate. Even if he couldn't beat Nanashi in that form, he was at least somewhat comparable.

 

[Jaakuace44]

Have we fixed the circular scaling on Ahriman and Noah yet?

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, Vishnu-flynn's likely 1-C

likely Complex Multiverse level (Immensely more powerful than before. Is his Godslayer self, created with the purpose of killing YHVH himself, which he believed capable of doing upon attaining the form)

 

[Jaakuace44]

Nnnnno, I meant I always found that claim dubious. Sure, he was made to do so, but there's a lot of room for doubt. Krishna is pretty arrogant, and Vishnu-flynn could barely keep his power under control.

 

[Jaakuace44]

Speaking of tiers, there may be evidence to suggest Beginning of Game Demi-fiend is a higher tier. I'll post some stuff about that here in a bit.

 

[Elizhaa]

Speaking of tiers, there may be evidence to suggest Beginning of Game Demi-fiend is a higher tier. I'll post some stuff about that here in a bit.

Cool, I am willing to wait!

 

[Elizhaa]

I will update Toki (Shin Megami Tensei); her first key should be 2-A as she is comparable to the group of the protagonists after they defeated Ananta Shesha (Shin Megami Tensei). Her At least 2-A will become At least 2-A, likely High 2-A scaling from the groups and Lucifer (Shin Megami Tensei). I will update her resistances.

 

[Elizhaa]

Now, I think about it, the main protagonists would have Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation since they could learn the skills that give the abilities in games. Life drain, i.e., falls under Life Manipulation; and there are numerous instant death abilities like Mudoon. I can add this to their profiles.

 

[DMB_1]

Power Bestowal should be added too since things like buffs and debuffs apply to the entire party, multi-target healing spells like Mediara, Forcefields like Tetrakarn and Makarakarn.