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SMT Revisions 2.0

Jaakuace44 said:
Alright. Mithra and Samael would likewise be 2-A, then.
Click to expand...
Samael is fought immediately before Ahriman, and he is the demon that is outright sent to stop you from preventing Ahriman's summoning.

in addition, he's usually one of the strongest members, if not the strongest Fallen race domon in the games.

So yeah, I'm fine with him being 2-A.
 
Principalities should scale to Archangels, seeing as the former are of the seventh order while the latter are of the eight order.
 
I'm aware. I mentioned Devil Survivor because that has actual plot relevant stuff that isn't on the profile
 
On another topic, after revaluation, The other four Messiahs: Aleph, Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei), Neutral Hero (Shin Megami Tensei), and Demi-Fiend like Flyn should just have High-Godly Negation - as explained here. Demi-Fiend defeated Kagutsuchi (Shin Megami Tensei); I don't think that Kagutsuchi (Shin Megami Tensei)'s Regenerationn nor Demi-Fiend's negation should be a downgrade. Pretty much no one in the verse got mid-godly Regenerationn anyway

Satan is also an avatar of YHVH like Kagutsuchi (Shin Megami Tensei) but he can still return to the Axiom also like Metratron's. Lucifer, Mekabah, Krishna, and YHVH are major antagonists confirmed dead in the SMT IV Apocalypse.
 
Yobobojojo said:
I'm aware. I mentioned Devil Survivor because that has actual plot relevant stuff that isn't on the profile
Click to expand...
Can you updated it then? I can unlock the profile. Just tell me when you are done.

It is unlocked, Yobobojojo
 
I don't think any of the Protagonists aside from Flynn and Nanashi should have Observation and Regenerationn Negation included in their profiles.
 
Jaakuace44 said:
Krishna was sealed presumably by other demons, so sealing may go to higher-tier demons.
Click to expand...
I think that fair would be for Demon Gods. The protagonists would also have resistances to sealing as well.
 
Regarding unlisted Regenerationn, I saw on SMT IV Apocalypse profiles. I remove some of them because as such it was unlisted. After some research and playing the game, the Regenerationn would be Mid-Low to Low-mid. It is from Dagda (Shin Megami Tensei)'s powers as he gives it to the phone. I think it would Low-mid in Boss fight against Dalga, Nanashi lost his protection and was suffering from extreme internal bleedings and body/ organs failure as he was dying. When he did get Dagda back, he healed.

I can add these.
 
Messiahs in general are said to be a threat to Massacre Nanashi, who has High-Godly regen at that point. Stephen himself even says this. The other protagonists are straight-up referred to as Messiahs from other realities. If there wasn't a real risk of other Messiahs bumping Nanashi off, Stephen wouldn't have issued the warning at all.
 
Yeah, the other Protagonists are Messiahs, but they never used Observation for anything even in the game itself, only Nanashi could do it, and again, Weaponized Observation wasn't a thing before Apocalypse, so we shouldn't retroactively scale anything, just like how we don't upgrade SMT II Satan to 2-A because of his appearance in YHVH's Universe, two decades and three games later.
 
If Anu have a profile: She would Tier 2-A for her first key and At least 2-A, likely High 2-A for her second key after absorbing Inanna's powers. With her powers she could created another versio of Dagda (Shin Megami Tensei)

Inanna would have two keys: One as a spirit which fought Nanashi after Shesha and the Four Heavenly key boss fight. The others is after Nanashi fought Lucifer (Shin Megami Tensei) and Merkabah where she would be At least 2-A, likely High 2-A for her second key.
 
I'm going to run the changes to Remiel's profile by everyone just to make sure we're all on the same page here, is that fine?
 
Inanna is most likely comparable to Mem Aleph, given their similar natures as Mother Goddesses who birthed all Demons and Gods.
 
Ultima Reality said:
Yeah, the other Protagonists are Messiahs, but they never used Observation for anything even in the game itself, only Nanashi could do it, and again, Weaponized Observation wasn't a thing before Apocalypse, so we shouldn't retroactively scale anything, just like how we don't upgrade SMT II Satan to 2-A because of his appearance in YHVH's Universe, two decades and three games later.
Click to expand...
I would normally agree about it was referred but the latter game referred that Messiahs and Godslayer are still threats to Gods. Stephen explained it and stated in the Neutral Chaos Ending SMT IV Apocalypse.

Also, in the neutral ending, I think it is Flyn that killed Krishna, not Nanashi.

Satan is At least High 2-A for his first key and 1-C for next key. So, 2-A Satan looks outdated after 20 years.
 
Yes, but Godkilling shenanigans are only applicable to Flynn and Nanashi, none of the other Protagonists ever showcased any form of Observation, not even in Apocalypse itself, where Nanashi was the only one who could willingly use it.

Same thing with the Protagonists, Observation before Apocalypse came out was more of a passive phenomena caused by the different beliefs and faiths of all Humans, not an ability that could be actively used to permanently kill Gods by specific individuals created by the Axiom itself in order to off YHVH.
 
Would it be acceptable to give the Messiahs multiple keys like we do for Satan, for their different appearances in Apocalypse? That seems like a reasonable way to address the issue.
 
The request to make a 1-C key for the protags as they appear in the Diamond Realm has already been rejected before, on the reasoning of PIS (mainly in regards to Mid-game Kazuya tanking hits from Stephen; though, that may be due to him being empowered from observing Nanashi's fight with him during the first phase).
 
So, Flynn also gets Regenerationn Negation Up to High-Godly.

The other messiah and god slayers get Regenerationn Negation Up Mid-godly, possibly to High-Godly scaling from Demi-fiend.
 
No, more like they don't get Regenerationn Negation at all. Negating Mid-Godly is already encompassed by the fact they destroy Nonexistence with their normal attacks alone, I think.

And like I said, Boss Order isn't always the best way to scale SMT, whether the Boss in question is optional or not.

@Jordan

That would make a mess out of the Scalling, I think. Kazuya was like, 2-C when he died and was sent to the Diamond Realm, Aleph was killed by the Megido Ark, and Demi-Fiend was killed by Lucifer.

So, no.
 
Mid-Godly Regen Negation should still be listed, with the justification being that it's via Nonexistence Erasure.

We don't have a page for Nonexistence Erasure, anyway. At least not that I'm aware.
 
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