Small High School DxD Revisions

[Touhou_ranfuku]

So in the Larcade vs Issei thread there's the problem of Penetrate not working as intended due to wording. Here is the scene in vol 18.

Xenovia and Irina directed their swords towards Lucifer, but they had just defeated Yamata-no-Orochi, and shortly before that they released a lot of their energy, so the duo's stamina had not fully recovered yet! Faced with attacks from two holy swords — he used his two fingers to block their attacks!


"A little devil girl and angel attacking me simultaneously! How cool! But but, with this kind of attack, there's no way you can hit this old man yo!"

He radiated demonic energy from his hands, and sent the duo flying!


With blood dripping from the corner of her mouth, Xenovia was still slashing at high speed, with an incredible destructive power! Although she occasionally used the mimicry ability, she was also predicting and avoiding the enemy! Eventually, it changed into a blade in the shape of a whip which was stopped by his bare hands. Xenovia was pulled closer then took a kick to the stomach!

"Uh ah…!"

Taking the impact of the kick, Xenovia was sent flying a far distance!

"Xenovia! How dare you!"

Irina increased the holy aura output of Hauteclaire, and slashed it down towards Rizevim. However, reaching his hand, it became nothing.

"To be honest, your technique isn't bad. Really. In order to defeat Yamato-no-Orochi, you expended too much energy though. But, even if you didn't it's not enough."

After Rizevim said so, he snatched the holy sword from Irina's hands, then thrust his hand into her abdomen.

But after Issei used Penetrate Rizevim is hurt despite being able to block holy sword barehand before. This suggests Penetrate doesn't just ignore unnatural defense such as Sacred Gear Canceler but also the body toughness.

["Penetrate!!"]

He took the blow straight on, and from the impact of the hit he was sent flying backwards! Rizevim fell to the ground.

"……How, this is…"

He said with a tone of disbelief, rubbing his face while lying down. It looks like blood from his nose had been sprayed all over his face. I slowly approached him as he lay on the ground, pulled him up by his hair, then punched his face again. He tumbled onto the ground again, still in disbelief. As I walked over to him I said

"—This is one of Ddraig's abilities when he was alive, 'Penetrate'. The power of my attack was transmitted directly to your body."

I want change the description on the profile as Penetrate doesn't just bypass anything that gets in a flesh wound but more than that.

EDIT: To add another matter it's about Trihexa core, it didn't die when Sirzechs destroyed half of the island so it can't be just Mountain level in durability. Both Issei and Sirzechs were at their strongest forms to face Trihexa core so I see no reason for them to lower down their attack level. Trihexa core should be at island level in durability, you would need that kind of attack and more than that to finish if off completely.

 

[Akira1298]

From what i understand that's exactly what's written on his profile, let's just say for an example someone tries to block his attack, it would go trough their defenses it has nothing to do with normal defense, Issei could ignore durability is wrong.


For a better understanding let's say he punches someone, when the punch comes in contact with an barrier or block that would make his attack hit the person anyways, but it doesn't ignore durability or he would have punched right through Rizevim which didn't happen.


For him being able to block attacks from Irina and Xenovia would indicate that they are weaker than him since if you look at the character profiles in here they are some tiers below Issei.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That's a better title if you want people to comment. And as I said this seems more like bypasses unnatural defenses and not Durability all together.

 

[Akira1298]

Yes, basically if he could ignore durability he would've turned Rizevim's face to mush with a single punch as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Now the Trihexa Core is another problem as he mentioned.

 

[LazyHunter]

From those snippets and the description of the ability, it looks like it just bypasses defenses and not durability. If it bypassed durability I'd expect Issei's punch to easily go through his enemy's head as it would offer no resistance to the fist, not to send him flying with a broken nose like a regular blow would do. As for why the punch hurt him and not the other attacks, Issei's punch could simply be strong enough to do so or the enemy might be covering/enhancing his body with demonic energy to increase his natural durability, something that Penetrate would just go through from what I understand.

As for the Trihexa core, it would be better if you could provide the dimensions of the island so that the feat could be calculated. If the island is small enough it might not be as good as a feat as you think it is, though I'm unaware of the feat in question since I dropped the series a while ago.

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

From those snippets and the description of the ability, it looks like it just bypasses defenses and not durability. If it bypassed durability I'd expect Issei's punch to easily go through his enemy's head as it would offer no resistance to the fist, not to send him flying with a broken nose like a regular blow would do. As for why the punch hurt him and not the other attacks, Issei's punch could simply be strong enough to do so or the enemy might be covering/enhancing his body with demonic energy to increase his natural durability, something that Penetrate would just go through from what I understand.

Penetrate bypasses the defense and durability, otherwise Rizevim would be affected by holy sword which is a bane to devil, even a devil as strong as Issei was getting a headache just by hearing quotes from bible, Rizevim took absolutely no damage from this.

Issei's Penetrate punch did bypass the durability, if he wasn't then with there's no way to harm Rizevim with just Penetrate seeing that not even holy swords could. At that point he was weaker than both Irina and Xenovia and he fought barehand. His punch didn't go through the bones and skull because he didn't have enough strength to break it, noted that this is the skeleton of a devil which is much much stronger than a normal person, if Issei had punched Rizevim in his Scalemail with Penetrate likely he would break him in half. See in vol 20 Belial was dodging every single attack with Penetrate.

The way I see it Penetrate lowers down the durability of the opponent down to one tier.

As for the Trihexa core, it would be better if you could provide the dimensions of the island so that the feat could be calculated. If the island is small enough it might not be as good as a feat as you think it is, though I'm unaware of the feat in question since I dropped the series a while ago.

No description of the island in the book, but if an attack that could destroy half an island couldn't finish off Trihexa core no reason to put it on mountain level, that is like Dante being stabbed by a mook at the start of DMC3 has lower durability because no one factors his Regenerationn in.

 

[Antvasima]

Does anybody else have any comments regarding the validity of this?

 

[LazyHunter]

@Touhou ranfuku

Except that's not the ability description nor what the quotes you posted indicate. A Durability Negation attack is not one that lowers Durability or simply causes more damage. By its very nature, a Durability Negation attack negates conventional durability, that's what makes them so dangerous. So in order to withstand a Durability Negation attack you need a counter or specific resistance to it. If Issei's punch was negating durability, it would not have just stopped at breaking Rizevim's nose, it should have carved it away or punch right through his entire face with ease. If Issei's power in that scene doesn't fit what he should display, then it could be just an outlier or plot stupidity to make the skill look more powerful than it is and allow him to defeat the villain.

If you don't have a size for the island then you can't claim that destroying half of it would be island level.

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

But you can't deny that holy swords did nothing to Rizevim while barehand with Penetrate did, look at the scene again: Issei was punching a supernatural strong devil barehand, if he didn't have Penetrate he wouldn't be able to harm Rizevim just like the holy swords did nothing to his fingers. If you want different wording then Penetrate is the ability to remove defense to the point that it makes the target become extremely vulnerable, so that he looks like a normal human and thus his durability gets lowered down.

That is still an island, for comparison both Vali was vaporizing 5000m mountain casually in his strongest mode, Sirzechs and Issei get scaled to this and they spam tons of attacks against the Trihexa core, no reason to assume why it didn't have island durability given that it could regenerate from everything they threw at it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Just because it's an island doesn't make it island level. Islands vary in size. Tenrou Island was only big enough to warrent High 7-A. So this island had to only be Mountain sized to get said rating.

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

What's the standard for island level? How big is it?

About the Penetrate matter Issei hasn't used it much, could be that it allows him to bypass the surface but not the inside. We will need more information to see what can it do but I still stand on my opinion that is Penetrate doesn't just bypass unnarutal defense but allows the user to harm the target even with much lower attack level against high durability character.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

4.3-100 Gigatons

 

[Antvasima]

Here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Lina_Shields/Mountain_level_and_Island_level

 

[GoodDaySir]

About Penetrate, it' one of Ddraig old abilities that grant the user the ability to bypass/ignore a shiled/barrier or even an ability that would otherwise stop his attack. so yeah, penetrate DOES NOT ignore natural durability from the said target.

About Rizevim casually tanking holy sword it's actually because he has enough demonic energy to do so, just like Sirzech suppressing the holy aura from a shrine using his demonic energy. think of it like you covering yourself from a flamethrower using nothing but wood, not effective but still possible if you have enough wood(Demonic Energy)

Issei harming Rizevim in the first place because Rizevim is quite arrogant and little insane plus he was not expecting that Issei has Penetrate, so it's like Goku getting pierced by lasser.

PS

Sorry for late response

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

That doesn't explain why Rizevim didn't get cut by touch the edge of the sword even if his demonic power might stop the holy effect, like how you can't stop a bullet from piercing your bulletvest.

Again devil is tough, Issei after revived as a devil demonstrated durability above a normal human. Rizevim as an old devil could tank Michael's lightspear could not do anything but taking damage from Issei's barehand attack who, at this point was weakened and didn't have holy sword to eat away his demonic energy. Issei could already harm Rizevim who was at least stronger than Euclid (tanking Infinity Blaster and still alive, Infinity Blaster being equal to Longinus Smasher or above) with barehand so no reason to assume Penetrate can't lower down durability to an extend.

 

[GoodDaySir]

Again it's because Issei manage to surprise him in the first place.

As for Rizevim tanking Michael attack, it's because he saw it caming and as for the fact of how he manage to tank Michael's attack it's because that is just how weak Michael compare to him.

Remember insane as he is, Rizevim is still a Super Devil even though weaker then Ajuka and Sirzech while Michael is like what? on par with BB Azazel(based on feat so far, which is zero btw)

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

Surprise factor doesn't mean suddenly your flesh toughness drops like fly.

Michael's attack was strong enough to blow up the place and he had to cast barrier to protect everyone else, on top of that he was using holy light which is fatal to devil.

Rizevim being in Super devil tier because he can make Sacred Gear useless, seeing that both Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing house two top 10 strongest beings that's how he got into that tier, besides that at best he would be Euclid tier, in fact Belial Diehouser might be much stronger than him given feat.

 

[GoodDaySir]

Surpise factor does matter, because you won't prepare for it, after all Rizevim is just playing around all the time, hell there is actually no reason for him to attack the heaven in the first place.

even though his ability is the main reason of how he get into the tier, Rizevim still tough enough on his own. because remember, it took the entire Sirzech's peerege/group (excluding Sirzech) to stand up to him.

Sirzech's group is also pretty strong, one of them is Grayfia who is on par with Serafall and then Grayfia still need other member to stand up to him

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

Surprise factor doesn't really matter in this case, yes Rizevim was playing around but suddenly he became as weak as a normal human (or devil)? That doesn't make any sense. In fact a barehand Issei, if Penetrate doesn't actually lower down Rizevim's durability, would only make Issei hurt his fist when he punched Rizevim.

Remind me where's the quote that it took Sirzechs' Peerage to stand up to Rizevim, I was under the impression that Grayfia alone could fight him to a draw because Euclid was as only a little bit weaker than her.

 

[GoodDaySir]

"Do you know why Sirzechs-kun's group is made up of non-Sacred Gear possessors? Well, there are many reasons behind it. But the biggest reason among them is because they won't be useful when they fight me head to head, you now? Now do you understand? I-T I-S I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E, okay? Thanks to that I can't carelessly touch the Holy Grail directly though!"

"So that's also the reason behind it huh. In order to stand up to this guy they purposely didn't add a member with Sacred Gear among them."

This line from volume 16

 

[Touhou_ranfuku]

That doesn't mean they all need to stand up to Rizevim in order to win, given that the Peerage is created to protect and to work for a devil lord. I don't see any contradiction that each of them can't fight against Rizevim when other members are busy elsewhere or Rizevim flatout said that he could stand up to Sirzechs or Ajuka, or Serafall and Falbium.

Rizevim also doesn't have many good feats to put him on Sirzechs level even without his true form. No speed feat, one destruction feat that comes off as unquantifiable as it didn't do the job.

 

[GoodDaySir]

there is no feat, yes but we can still do a powerscale that should be close with the fact.

First we know that Rezevim should be, at least, on par with Issei's True Queen. so the scale basically goes like this:

Diabolos Dragon > Rizevim >= True Queen > Euclid = Grayfia = Serafall

Note: Euclid is at least on par with Grayfia this is not even taking into account his Boosted Gear Replica which would make him even stronger.

 

[HaouJudai52]

The penetration definitely reduces the durability of Rizevim

Issei hit him without bringing his armor. He only had his Boosted Gear. That blow should not tickle Risevim.

Issei only took Risevim by surprise only once. Then he landed more hits on Risevim.

Issei alone with his gauntlet + Penetrate (vol 18):

["Penetrate!!"]

He took the blow straight on, and from the impact of the hit he was sent flying backwards! Rizevim fell to the ground.

"……How, this is…"

He said with a tone of disbelief, rubbing his face while lying down. It looks like blood from his nose had been sprayed all over his face. I slowly approached him as he lay on the ground, pulled him up by his hair, then punched his face again. He tumbled onto the ground again, still in disbelief. As I walked over to him I said...

Issei DxD mode without Penetrar +D∞D boost:

" <<[ D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D D∞D !!!!!!!!]>> "

Rizevim intended to use his left hand to grab my fist! The wings of Lucifer on his back all expanded, and increased his strength. In order to block my fist, Rizevim used his Canceller…. I didn't use [Penetrate], but the momentum of my fist didn't weaken, and the aura enveloping it wasn't eliminated; Rizevim cried out in surprise 'what is this!?'

"First is a punch!"

Using my fist's momentum, I drove a direct punch towards Rizevim! Struck by that single blow, that bastard was flung onto the ground. Despite that, Rizevim immediately stood back up, and felt the part of his face that had been hit. From the looks of it, that blow just now was pretty good; his nasal bridge had been knocked crooked, and he had an incessant nosebleed. After Rizevim forcefully pushed his nose back into place and stopped the bleeding, he glared at me.

┬┐What do you think Issei's gauntlet power is comparable to the power of DxD mode? Obviously the penetration weakened the durability of Risevim.

PD: Sorry, my english is bad.