Small DBS upgrade

[Orange]

Well, well, well.
Zeno here erased the entire future timeline, including the WoV of that timeline.

We consider the world of void to be...well a void, he should get limited void manipulation for it.
We know zeno's EE is potent enough to erase even The WoV, super shenron should get Void manipulation because he restored erased universes.

Both dub and sub use the world "restore."
restore: returning something to its original state.
Conversion to existince : The inverse of Existence Erasure. The user may be able to move something from a state of nonexistence to existence, such as reversing the effects of the aforementioned power through their innate control over nothingness. Note that this alone is not justification for Void Manipulation as much as it can be a side-effect of having it. Like conversion to nonexistence, this may be limited in scope, such as only being able to conjure physical objects as opposed to minds, souls, or concepts.
Long story short: Zeno gets nonexisten interaction and void manipulation for being able to erase entire voids. SS for being able to restore Erased objects, that were erased by Zeno.
another addition : Zeno should get resistance bypassing for his EE, gods can resist EE and void manipulation, but they were still erased by him.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Zeno is fine, but why does shenron restoring the universes mean that he can manipulate voids? I don't see the correlation.

 

[Orange]

Zeno is fine, but why does shenron restoring the universes mean that he can manipulate voids? I don't see the correlation.

Zeno can erase voids, ss can restore things that were erased by an attack that can erase voids. I don't think creation or matter manipulation covers that, so it's either void manipulation or some else.
in void manipulation , it says there is an ability that converts Things from non existence to existence, which is what ss did. Converting/restoring erased/non existence universe to existent universes

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Zeno can erase voids, ss can restore things that were erased by an attack that can erase voids. I don't think creation or matter manipulation covers that, so it's either void manipulation or some else.

Shenron isn't restoring the void, the world of void still exists, he's just placing the universes back were they were, he isn't manipulating any voids while doing that, this is already covered by reality warping.

 

[Orange]

Shenron isn't restoring the void, the world of void still exists, he's just placing the universes back were they were, he isn't manipulating any voids while doing that, this is already covered by reality warping.

I edited the comment, it should be clearer now

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yea, this is kind of covered under Existence Erasure; no need to belabor the obvious.

 

[Orange]

Then it should be listed as such, no harm to being accurate

 

[Thelastmlg]

Maybe, but disagree with shenron, being able to erase voids doesn't mean you'll always do so, at best that's just zeno's EE being able to hit NEP type 1, like NPI, but shenron gets nothing out of it since this EE doesn't make it harder to bring them back

 

[Orange]

Conversion to existince: The inverse of Existence Erasure. The user may be able to move something from a state of nonexistence to existence, such as reversing the effects of the aforementioned power through their innate control over nothingness. Note that this alone is not justification for Void Manipulation as much as it can be a side-effect of having it. Like conversion to nonexistence, this may be limited in scope, such as only being able to conjure physical objects as opposed to minds, souls, or concepts.
taking Exactly from void manipulation page.
Shenron was ablet to restore The universe From a nonexisten state, to an existence state. which is a sub power of void manipulation.
[Context: In T.O.P, zeno used his EE [which can erase void itself] to erase losing universes [it's on his profile], After U7 wining, 17 asks shenron to restore the erased universes, aka turning them from a nonexisten state to an existent state].
and what do you mean by "erasing voids doesn't mean you'll always do so"?

 

[Thelastmlg]

That's like saying someone who can punch concepts will always hit you at a conceptual level, even if your damage doesn't imply it.

Taking a text from superpower wiki doesn't really help the case here.

Restoring them can easily be done with creation and ressurection, both of which shenrons are know for doing

 

[Orange]

1- I really don't understand your point here, what does that have to do with anything ?
2- I checked on the dub, and sub, both actually say "restore". Restore by definition is: bring back to a re-established or return to a former condition or state.
Exactly matches the detention of Conversions to existence , which is just changing state from a nonexisten to an existence.
Super shenron restored the erased universes, both stated in dub and sub. aka he re-established or returned them to their existence state, to their previous state.

 

[Orange]

Bump?

 

[Hasty12345]

Question: Did the GP create the stage in the WoV, or the WoV and the stage in the ToP arc?

 

[Orange]

We only see him creating the stage, let me see if I can find it.

 

[Orange]

We see him opening his palm, causing a transparent white ball to emerge with a black dot in it [later revealed to be WoV], it's either was just a montage or he actually created the WoV.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

We see him opening his palm, causing a transparent white ball to emerge with a black dot in it [later revealed to be WoV], it's either was just a montage or he actually created the WoV.

From the video, he did stated he created the stage, but not WoV ngl.

 

[Hasty12345]

Hmmm, well I have no objection to GP creating the WoV (I don't know what everyone else's opinion on this is), I don't see a reason the timeline Zeno erased should have a WoV if they didn't have a ToP (I could be wrong on my interpretation of the above scene though).

So I don't think Zeno should have void manip or NPI for destroying the FT timeline, that being said, I see 0 reason why Zeno shouldn't get the ability given he's stated to be able to destroy everything in the verse (which equates to at least 1 timeline) which should include anything the GP can make.

So I agree with the upgrade, but not for the reasons in the CRT. Of course assuming the GP did create the WoV here.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

There’s no proof he created the WoV

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Hmmm, well I have no objection to GP creating the WoV (I don't know what everyone else's opinion on this is), I don't see a reason the timeline Zeno erased should have a WoV if they didn't have a ToP (I could be wrong on my interpretation of the above scene though).

So I don't think Zeno should have void manip or NPI for destroying the FT timeline, that being said, I see 0 reason why Zeno shouldn't get the ability given he's stated to be able to destroy everything in the verse (which equates to at least 1 timeline) which should include anything the GP can make.

So I agree with the upgrade, but not for the reasons in the CRT. Of course assuming the GP did create the WoV here.

I not gonna lie I don’t see GP creating WoV as we can clearly see the stage being created, but not WOV in the background watching it the full video.

 

[Hasty12345]

I not gonna lie I don’t see GP creating WoV as we can clearly see the stage being created, but not WOV in the background watching it the full video.

He creates a white ball in his hand, a black dot appears (the WoV), then he expands it, then he starts building the stage.

I'd say him creating it is the interpretation with least amount of assumptions. unless you can prove it's pre-existing, or provide some other evidence for him not creating it?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

He creates a white ball in his hand, a black dot appears (the WoV), then he expands it, then he starts building the stage.

I'd say him creating it is the interpretation with least amount of assumptions. unless you can prove it's pre-existing, or provide some other evidence for him not creating it?

Here you go as it was before GP created the stage and keep in mind, the very same video Orange posted. GP stated “I am creating the stage.”

 

[Hasty12345]

Sure, then it's pre-existing and Zeno can destroy it.

I agree with the upgrade.

 

[Orange]

Actually looking back at the video. It does seem like the world of void Gets created by him?
If he created it: GP will get void manipulation for creating it, SS and zeno will get void manipulation, zeno because he can erase it, and Ss because he can restore erased universes [which I explained in my previous posts.]
If not : then the reason that are stated in the upgrades will be used, if it gets through.
So basically the changes are just giving GP void manipulation , and changing the reasons for zeno, keeping the reasons for SS. Or the reasons sta the same and GP doesn't get it.
maybe we should make a vote or something?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Actually looking back at the video. It does seem like the world of void Gets created by him?
If he created it: GP will get void manipulation for creating it, SS and zeno will get void manipulation, zeno because he can erase it, and Ss because he can restore erased universes [which I explained in my previous posts.]
If not : then the reason that are stated in the upgrades will be used, if it gets through.
So basically the changes are just giving GP void manipulation , and changing the reasons for zeno, keeping the reasons for SS. Or the reasons sta the same and GP doesn't get it.
maybe we should make a vote or something?

Are you forgetting something? We were first introduced to the WoV before GP create the stage as it is a bigger assumption of him creating the WoV rather than creating just the stage ngl.

 

[Orange]

Are you forgetting something? We were first introduced to the WoV before GP create the stage as it is a bigger assumption of him creating the WoV rather than creating just the stage ngl.

Aha I see I see, then I agree.
I'll just reword the OP a bit, do you agree with the upgrades?

 

[Sus]

I think it should be noted that zeno can erase voids in his EE justification, no need for void manipulation

 

[Orange]

I think it should be noted that zeno can erase voids in his EE justification, no need for void manipulation

Or EE and void manipulation and NonexisNonexisten interaction [Capeable of erasing entire universes and voids with his hakai]

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Quite iffy, there is no indication that he erased the WOV.

 

[Orange]

Quite iffy, there is no indication that he erased the WOV.

He erased the future timeline which holds the world of void, he can also erase everything , which includes the world of void

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

He erased the future timeline which holds the world of void, he can also erase everything , which includes the world of void

Hmm.., that's a heavy assumption, as far as I'm aware the WoV is outside the 12 universes, we don't know if Zeno's erasure reached there.

We have 0 proofs....

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

And also, the WoV is not a real void, as it has space-time, Hit was able to use time stop there, which debunks the notion of "lack of space-time", and also, we clearly see some matter in the WoV's sky, like clouds.

AKM also commented this on a previous thread.

 

[Orange]

It is a real void, because toppo got void manipulation because of it. it's stated to be devoided of space and time, filled with eternal a nothingness.

Hmm.., that's a heavy assumption, as far as I'm aware the WoV is outside the 12 universes, we don't know if Zeno's erasure reached there.

We have 0 proofs....

Also you are correct, the null is outside of the multiverse, but zeno would still get void manipulation because he can erase it. Since he can erase anything, and was stated to be capable of erasing the entire existence in a blink of an eye, which would obviously include The WoV.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

And also, the WoV is not a real void, as it has space-time, Hit was able to use time stop there, which debunks the notion of "lack of space-time", and also, we clearly see some matter in the WoV's sky, like clouds.

AKM also commented this on a previous thread.

That's an inconsistency, the world of void is still stated to have nothing with no space or time. It's also not created by the GP.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

That's an inconsistency, the world of void is still stated to have nothing with no space or time. It's also not created by the GP.

An incosistency, more like a statement contradicted by the own Plot showings. We can't just try to justify plotholes.

And, there is nothing more on the show that supports lack of space-time.

And again, we can see Matter like clouds in the Sky of the WoV.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

And if it's really an incosistency, then we should better take away Jiren's time stop resistance.

See, we can't, when Hit's inclusion on the TOP was to show how Jiren's is resistant to his Time stop abilities and how he got defeated after.

 

[Orange]

Or or simply, Hit either can use his time abilities in a world without time, or the stage has time and space.
Also the background is literally just a background, And artistic choice. You better make a downgrade to WoV because we accept it as such.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Or or simply, Hit either can use his time abilities in a world without time, or the stage has time and space.
Also the background is literally just a background, And artistic choice. You better make a downgrade to WoV because we accept it as such.

Wydm?, the "stage" alone can't have space-time, and the rest of the void not, lol. there is no proof that It works on layers, nor statements to back it up, we are just going by assumptions.
And, no, without space-time, is impossible to use your time based abilities. Becouse without time, literally time doesn't work, is none existant.

We can't just justify a blatant miscosception of how Time-space works simply becouse the writers probably don't even know how It works.

Statements can be contradicted.
The lack-space time statement is simply contradicted, this is fairly common on fiction, nothing new about this.
So, this shouldn't be the exception.

 

[Sus]

What's being discussed here? Why would the stage have a space-time?

 

[CR_Catinho]

I was asked to comment here so I'll just say my piece and go .
The stage clearly has time and space in it during the tournament, Don't know if everything outside of it is a void or not but that doesn't matter .
Because since the tournament didn't happen in the future then GP didn't have to induce time and space into it to hold the ToP , Meaning that in the future it's still a true void.

So this this should be fine to apply

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

The stage clearly has time and space in it during the tournament, Don't know if everything outside of it is a void or not but that doesn't matter .

What??....., that's a huge assumption, is there proof that the space-time time is layered to only the stage?, NO.
We just don't have further context for It to work.

What kind of reasoning is this?.....,there isn't any statement nor evidence of what you are talking about.
The whole void does indeed have space-time time, Hit proves, this is just a contradiction that's all.
How did you get to the point that space-time is only limited to the stage???

Statements can be contradicted, and this happens on fiction very often.

Lol, trying to justify a incosistency.

At this point, you guys are just making stuff up.