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Skill Debate: Hayato vs Fugil

I don't know much about Fugil other than the stuff listed in the Skill Wars threads, but I'm following in case I come up with some stuff
 
Anyway, let's starts for the basics (although I maybe won't be able to answer in the thread for some time):

Fugil masters every type of Drag-Ride, basically he masters every weapon and martial art there is in the verse.
 
Because every single Drag-Knight learns martial arts on the Academy and each Drag-Ride requires a different style to be used? Using Typhon and using Bahamut are totally different deals due to the movements and intructions needed to use them.
 
Well Hayato scales above just about any martial arts guy in the verse. And he has created his own martial arts too.
 
I mean, Fugil does too and he also is better than any weapon user in the verse. I would say Fugil has the adventage in quantity about mastering things, about quantity, I'm pretty sure Fugil is above anyone with weapons in Kenichi but since Bahamut is not that much martial arts based verse Kenichi should have the upper hand in quantity when it comes to that, so I guess is time for more feats.
 
Ok, the very first feat in the series was Fugil defeating the army of 1200 elite Drag-Knights of the Arcadia Empire, these guys aren't really featless (yay) since they massively scale above a guy who have no openings on his movements and gave problems to 12y/o Lux. And I think it is even implied that he fought againts dozens of them while being 10x slower than them, but that quote is little vague.
 
Multiple, and he scales to basically all others of the verse. Which feats does Hayato even scale to? Does he even use weapons?
 
He doesn't but he scales above people who can fodderize weapon users who can fodderize several weapon users all at once.

So while he doesn't use weapons himself (never shown to use), he sure as hell can deal with them.
 
An Abyss such as a Gargoyle takes at least 3 High Class Drag-Knights/7 of the best Mid Class Drag-Knights to be defeated, and over 10 Low Class Drag-Knights can barely hope to escape alive from said match. Even during the first arc, using only a Wyvern with overweight that made it slower than average, with only 1/3 of its armor and a broken sword, Lux was able to fodderize a Gargoyle. So a pretty simple feat, but I think that's basically what you're saying.
 
That is what im saying but on a FAR higher scale. These are 7 grandmasters that Shigure (the prodigy of swords) was holding back.
 
Well, what I just said is literally Lux on the very first volume of the novel. Fugil scales massively above him even in Volume 19, where he has gotten much more experience, abilities, training, etc.

What exactly is a grandmaster?
 
A grandmaster is basically virtually the highest class you can achieve, because above that even grandmasters will say "doesn't feel like im fighting against humans". In the overall scale it's the 3rd from the highest rank you can have, but number 1 is Superhuman class which is just hayato and another dude. 2nd rank is Advanced Grandmasters who can pretty much trash any grandmaster easily. And 3rd is this, but a grandmaster is basically:

Someone likely in the same league of Fortuna (who as Tanimoto said is basically the garbage of master classes), but significantly stronger (they said he cannot be compared to Fortuna, but they did not compare him to any other master class fighter, so it's likely he's closer to Fortuna than other Master Classes). Can take on 1 Middle class Disciple, 5 very High Class Disciples and 2 Expert Class Disciples at the same time and have a basically non existent chance of losing (their chance of winning against the master class was 1/1 million). And could still deal with Sakaki intruding by attacking him everytime he tried to kill any of them. And Sakaki's pulling him so that their attacks wouldn't miss. Stated to be able to kill all of them in seconds.

^^ This is a simple master class.

Instantly demolished 8 Master Class opponents at the same time effortlessly. Effortlessly demolished 5 master class opponents at the same time. (Above average grandmaster class, but still grandmaster)

As for the feats of each this is basically the reason that a grandmaster can scale above actually everything below them, cus they're so much better, the feats of a high class disciple (which are by no means a joke), are insignificant.

So we can debate feat by feat, so any list of quantifiable skills for Fugil?
 
Earl, you should know no one has any idea what a "quantifiable skill feat" is

Ok, so. Fugil has very good precision due to Critical Hit, to make the technique the user needs to attack a weak point in the weapon of his opponents while using just the tip of the blade, using any other part will make the technique to have no effect or to just be counterproducing.

Lux was able to copy two Senjin techniques after watching them, when even to an elite Drag-Knights take several years to just master one. Fugil also should scale above Sacred Eclipse (since Sacred Eclipse is trash in skill level) who copied Lux's dodgings skill which is basically his main fighting style after seeing him dodge. Fugil also scales above Singlen who can copy techniques by seeing them, which allowed him to fastly learn everything from Zweigberk in a very short time span despite Zweig being a veteran with decades behind his back and being considered one of the best Drag-Knighst of the Blackend Kingdom.

He scales above Lux's in dodging skill that allowed Lux to dodge several hundred of attacks all of them being faster than him even in a small place. There are more dodging feats, but too much to list right now.

Fugil can make techniques such as Quick Draw, which reduces the lag between his movements since with every slash he can instantly pivot the blade and strike back in a different direction over and over without losing momentum.

There are more, but I'm not so well listing feats without listening to the other first.
 
In terms of precision i'd say Korui Nuki is a similar ability. But there are tons of other precision feats, if its with swords, then we have stuff like could cut Kenichi's drop of sweat in half without cutting him. etc

Hayato scales above Ogata who can copy an entire martial arts (that's on a Supermaster/Grandmaster level) during a fight and Akisame who should upscale from Alexander who was capable of copying Ougi by witnessing it once.

I don't think i can find anything that's exactly like that feat, but i have other side approaches to the feat like: Casually starts dodging attacks effortlessly from Kunou who was previously far faster, almost blitzing him. Ryusoi Seikuken can deal with opponents who outclass Kenichi in every way, being much faster and stronger. Furthermore allows Kenichi to lock onto his opponent's moves, predict them and use minimal effort to avoid. Can dodge Shou's ultimate move without even looking at his attacks, just his eyes, he does this by predicting all his attacks by "thinking in his opponent's shoes" (Shou was speed blitzing him before, even after Kenichi went peak speed by removing his protective vest, he barely managed to land a hit from a surprise attack, but shou wasn't even serious before). Other High Class Disciples, Can dodge with milimetric precision. While Grandmasters/Supermasters (same thing) Fight several Supermaster class opponents at the same time all while dodging rain and barrages of arrows from another supermaster class archer. The arrows of which can change trajectory mid air.

Im not sure Quick Draw is anything that impressive, but if it's spinning you want Siegfried exists who uses spins as a way to counter/reflect the opponents attacks, there are tons of feats but here are just some of them: Is unaffected by the attacks of 3 people all at once and defeats them with ease. Can counter even whe he gets attacked by surprise. His counters work even against sharp weapons. And reflects it in the same spots. Reflects even arrows. Can read an opponet's rythym to then use it to become unaffected by attacks and use that power against an opponent

Once we're done with these i guess i can start listing feats since you can't think of any.
 
I mean, with precision there are also feats like Lux hitting the vital spots of his opponents with his sword without cutting them.

I guess they are similar in copying level. Fugil also learned Critical Hit (a technqiue Lux created from scratch) and Break Purge (spcifically the Celistia's version which is a unique version of the technique) and he actually made Break Purge with better eficency than Celistia; the weird part about this is that Fugil never saw those techniques before doing them.

Lux can dodge attacks from people far faster than him too. an great example being his first fight againts Lisesharte, in which she trhowerd 16 attacks all coming from different directions that can home his opponents and all of them being faster than Lux and he did it pretty casually; Lux is also capable of facing opponents that outcalss him in every way, strenght, speed, durability (like the Lisesharte example) and skill (like when he faced Fugil's clone). There is also the feat of Lux defeating Nulph without seeing him and while dodging all of his attacks just by sensing his prescence. The one with the barrages of arrows is similar to the Lisesharte feat above.

I mean, Quick Draw also allows him to attacks people 10x faster than him and also make his attack harder to predict. I mean, Lux was also defeating (until he was interrupted) three opponents, all faster than him due to his handicap which was overweight, meaning he was slower than before and normally he is slower than your regular Drag-Rides, and they weren't capable of attacking him. Lux also countered eight attacks directed towards him from behind without seeing them or a better example is Fugil dodging and countering Singlen's attack even without his senses. Fugil also has a feat of using centrifugal force to reflect and deflect his opponents attacks including bullets while using Typhon. That guy with the hat literally described Senjin Midzuki and Ruten, Midzuki is predicting his opponents action and Ruten is basically letting down your defenses and then reflect the attack in the very instant you get attacked (this is the reason Ruten is considered suicidal if you don't master it).
 
I feel like that's too stupid to match. I have several precision things from Shigure but i will need some context on that cus it looks like actual phasing. If it's just internal damage everyone and their grandmother can do that in Kenichi.

It's not really copying then, it's just developing the technique on his own. So he doesn't copy by seeing it, he just created it on his own, same as Lux did. But Hayato developed a whole martial arts (the best i might add) on his own though.

All of those sound like things that kenichiverse would be capable of, the outclassing in every way is what Tanimoto did, basically defeated an opponent who was better in every way , that only via sensing well: Can gauge everything that's going on in the battle field (5 fights at the same time in different places quite far from each other) through Ki sensing alone. Seikuke. Allows him to sense attacks Kenichi More seikuuken. (Seikuken basically allows him to sense anything that enters his range andinstinctively block, although it worked on a guy who was blitzing him this much [the sensing]). There is also this but this is more on stupid prediction Started crushing Kenichi using only foresight and taking off his glasses which severly worsens his eyesight. (All from disciple class btw)

Kenichi's Mubyoshi (This attack has no rythym and no sign that it will attack. Mubyoshi.) also has resistance to Analytical Prediction (cannot be predicted despite being a move with a ton of startup). The rest of the countering is just more ESP (which i can show a ton of feats of) and countering which Siegfried has shown on the level of (Can counter even whe he gets attacked by surprise) countering a move he doesn't know is coming (basically passive counter). The deflecting bullets seems like what Sieg did to arrows. Reflecting isn't anything new in Kenichi Reflected Shou's attack. Then counters again. even if it's instant. As for the countering, Ogata Predicted and countered a technique even before Kenichi could use it.

What kind of fucky debate is this?
 
I already answered this to you in Discord, so meh.

I mean, no? He was using Celistia's technique, that was what Lux said. Even then, Fugil also created his own battle style (the one he uses, duh) with Bahamut, that was the one he teached Lux. And even then, people who created their own battle styles (such as Mishis) are still inferior to Fugil.

Then they both can defeat opponents who outclasses them in every way. About the sensing, pretty sure sensing isn't really skill, the part of "Can gauge everything that's going on in the battle field (5 fights at the same time in different places quite far from each other) through Ki sensing alone" is just senses, at least he wasn't applying them in combat. Seikuken is, then again, Senjin Ruten. So just block multiple attacks even when he can't see them? Just like what I did mention with the 8 different attacks coming from behind Lux and he blocking all of them?; I don't see how is that blitzing him in any manner, but, ok. Fugil defeated Greifer, literally the most skilled Drag-Knight of his country without even looking at him.

So similar to Quick Draw, just that Quick Draw can attack people faster than him (I guess you will bring sometime when he did that now). No, all others weren't ESP (what is ESP?), and countering when he gets attacked by surprise is something Lux did on the very first volume:

Lux instantly set up his blade diagonally so as to use it like a shield for the bombardment.
He fully poured energy from the Force Core and equipped it on the blade.
Originally, it was an ability to amplify destructive power, but by doing so, he would deflect the power of the bombardment and he himself would also be flipped off from the trajectory of the bombardment.
"Uh, ah…!"
Objects of high speed came flying while aiming at Lux who was blown off and was rotating in the air.
As he quickly swung the partially damaged blade and flicked off the four flying objects, they stopped in the sky and returned to Lisesharte's surroundings.
As she deflected her aim to the side and fired and attracted Lux's attention towards his right side, she threw the <Legion> which she made take a detour from the left side so that they escaped his field of vision; then, she pushed him into the original trajectory of the main armament's maximum output and attacked him.
A one shot kill strategy.
Devil like tactics without any mercy.
What was frightening above all else was that there was no stagnation (moment of pause) at all to this series of actions.
No matter how excellent the tactics were, as long as there was any unnatural movement, it was possible to perceive and avoid them.
I mean, reflecting is pretty much done by Critical Hit and Lux can counter them even with more strenght that they were launched. Countering a technique before it is used just means that he dodged the technique, nothing new to Lux, Fugil or even Singlen, I mean, Singlen countered Quick Draw even before it was used by Lux.

This debate is THE fucky debate.
 
So ugh? Wanna settle for a tie on this?

It really depends on the level of the martial arts (how good it is/the tier of techniques it has).

The sensing is Ki sensing, but that is with skill, you need a ton of skill to sense Ki from people (even though sometimes Ki is used as a synonim for Blood Flow in Kenichi so that's pretty F-ed up). He can apply them in combat, he can sense what happens around him with Ki alone, it's obviously applicable in combat to gauge an opponent's strength etc etc. Seikuken is Ruten? Isn't Ruten a reflection/countering ability? It is blitzing cus even though it's not shown clearly in that, previously (the night before that fight, he was incapable of even seeing Shio's attacks so he had to predict the attack and start the block beforehand). Odin did the same against Kenichi, fighting him while taking off his glasses (pretty distorted vision with it) and using only the inner eye which is basically prediction.

Mubyoshi has been used on everyone and their grandmother so it has nothing to do with faster opponents. If anything Mubyoshi is a slow ass move, it is literally just him placing his fingers on your chest nice and slow then attacking, and iirc it was used even against Shio. Esp is Extrasensory Perception. That's not really "off guard", he was still mid fight, Siegfried literally reflected a kick that hit him while he was writing songs. It's not as simple as an attack to his blind spot or from an angle he did not expect. Kenichi does the same with the "reflecting with more power" using Taihou. He didn't dodge it, more like he neutralized it before it had started.
 
I guess is ok a tie on this.

Well, yeah, it depends. For example, Mishis battle style was created by herself, it is made to counter everyt single Drag-Ride there is and she also surpassed human capacity by creating this battle style, that's one of the reasons she basically skill stomps Syvalles, despite them having multiple feats.

My point still stands that just sensing is not skill, otherwis a Star Wars character would be more skilled because they can sense things from interplanetary distances. So what Seikuken is then? I understand is to counter or block or whatever your opponent's attacks. Oh, so similar to what Singlen did with Lux's Quick Draw, it should naturally blitz him, but thanks to his prediction he blocked it (although Quick Draw shouldn't be able to be blocked by no one since is basically attacking your opponent with an attack 10x faster than them), and even then Lux can counter attacks that can bliz him too just like when Balzeride was using Reload on Fire. Fighting with just prediction is similar to what Singlen did againts Yoruka, he closed his eyes and starting blocking and basically destroying her, by the way, on the senses thing, Singlen can predict his opponents moves by sensing the sound of the rain touching them.

Quick Draw has been used on everyone and their mother too, and that doesn't change the fact that people cannot predict when Quick Draw is going to happen (probably yhe only exceptions are Singlen and Fugil). Ok, it is Extreasensory Perception, but I don't see why those would count as Extrasensory Perception. I mean, if someone attacks you from a blind spot, you are not in guard to counter that attack and attacking from a place he wasn't expecting is also being off guard, you cannot being on guard from something you didn't expected. Neutralized before it had started... so he dodged.
 
Hmm, rather unquantifiable feat on her martial arts i'd say. It scales above other stuff so fair enough, but need feats on what it scales above. Imma say Hayato's 10x amp via martial arts would be superior (among other abilities like Ryusui Seikuken and Seikuken).

It is the ability to control the area when one can attack and defend , it allows user to neutralize anything that enters their seikuken. It even allows people to feel and react to attacks they cannot see (blind spots). Hmm the rest i guess fair enough, but people take this a step further as people like Kenichi can see every possible moves one can make, even if they're more skilled. As for the sound of the rain touching them well, hehe, Lugh exists.

He also has insanely good information anaylsis. Yes, pretty mother f-ing stupid info analysis. And that's without even being able to see, can also use psychological warfrare mid battle. Stupid ass hearing, to the point where it's impossible to attack him without him expecting it. Can sense actually everything. All thoughts, feeling, wishes. More feats. His hearing sense is good enough to find people even if they're a kilometer away. Likely some form of ecolocation, he knows where Takeda is keeping his arm even though he's not making movement. He can also hear the electrical signals people make when moving (though this is a bit wonky as he says Ki and Electical signals are the same thing so ugh)

Ok but my point was on the "Mubyoshi works on everyone including faster people and people with pretty insane precog". Ok but ESP doesn't really compare to Siegfried getting hit like that. It's like saying, if we fight and you don't expect me to do a jab but still block is similar to me coming up behind you and jabbing while you're watching your fav TV show. More like the reduced Kenichi to mush before he could even use the technique (used a counter move to hit Kenichi, because he knew kenichi would do that move).
 
I mean, someone she is superior than Yoruka has enough skill to make Recoil Burst, maybe it is just one attack but it amps you by 30x by making a slash based on your body control and contradictory thoughs and actions. What is Ryusui Seikuken? An improved version of Seikuken?

I mean, I still consider it like Ruten, since Ruten is not only to reflect/counter it can also work to block attacks (I guess that is what they are saying when they say "neutralize attacks"), just like when Dilwy used it, instead of reflecting he was blocking the attacks used towards him, I don't know if it usable againts blind spots, it sounds pretty possible for Singlen or Lux to do it, specially because Lux has already blocked attacks from his blind spots and Singlen without even seeing, but it works againts attacks faster than them. Krulcifer is also able to see every possible move people can make even if they are more skilled (that was the whole point of the match where she did it fort he first time), she can also predict people like Fugil, but since Fugil's prediction is better than hers, she couldn't do much with that info, just like she said "I can see the future, not change fate".

Yet again, I don't consider Information Analysis as skill, its not for dismishing this, but I donn't see why it would be considered skill. Using psychological warfare is something Singlen does, I don't see why it would make it better by not being able to see. Sense what he is thinking? So just like Fugil, he basically read Aeril's mind knowing what she wanted to do and for which reasons. Yoruka is able to see people several kilometers away.

Ok, but Quick Draw does too. No, its like if you are fighting againts some and then that person throws a punch towards you but from behind you another person appears and attacks you, you are off guard againts the second person since you don't know he is attacking, you are not expecting a second person to enter in your fight and if this is not enough I will search for more feats. Oh, so just like when Philuffy used a counter because she knew Lux was going to do Quick Shot.
 
Yeah Ryusui Seikuken is a massively improved version of the Seikuken. It has other properties in general.

Neutralize can mean anything from block, to deflect, to dodge, to stop before it starts etc. But i'd say Seikuken is above Ruten due to how strong it can be against all attacks from any direction under any circumstances and even gives prediction on top of it. Can she see them with skill or ability?

All of these were for the "Can notice people's presences from the sound of the rain". Lugh laughs at basically most hearing feats unless your name is ikki and notice voids in sounds. Information Analysis is skill though, why wouldn't it be? It's the ability to deduce information from minor things the enemy shows. The mind reading for Fugil sounds like a downgraded version of Kenichi's Ryusui Sekuken. And seriously...."can see several km away" that's basic human boyo. Hearing from 5km away is not average human. But if it's seeing you want well: Binocular f-ing eyeballs.

Ok then tie on this point (seriously, we're just playing ping pong on this point "Fugil can do it" "so can kenichi" "well Fugil can do it too" xD). Not really impressive considering Lux has that blocking from blind spots feat, and nah, in a fight it's still different than doing random stuff cus in a fight you're still prepared for fighting. An unexpected punch when fighting and an unexpected punch when trying to go to sleep is not the same, so search for more feats. Tie here too then.
 
So, Ryusei Sekuken works to enter to your opponents rhytm and then make your opponent enter your own? It sounds to me like predicting your opponent to basically know perfectly what they are going to do and make them do the movement you want almost like if you are controling his movements, am I right?

Singlen doesn't need that Ruten give him prediction because he already has prediction on his own, but why a technique giving you prediction makes it better? And the technique should work from every direction since its basically creating a barrier if only Shin Senjin Ruten was more skill based since it was actually shown to work from any directio. Krulcifer is ability, but Fugil is skill, but Krulcifer gets countered by Mishis already.

With Ryusui Seikuken I have the same doubt as in the first paragraph, so answer me in there first then I answer you here and I was mainly comparing that Fugil's feat to the one you give me with Lugh. Well, Yoruka was also capable of hearing the conversation from there, so yes, she can hear things from several kilometers.

Not exactly, if you are fighting againts someone and just againts that person, you wouldn't expect something suddenly appearing from behind you to attack you. Both are unexpected punches, you aren't expecting them to happen. Would you consider if you are taliking with your friend and suddenly you feel someone's prescence and block the punch, would it be taken by surprise? Like this?:

Lisha who didn't know that the Ancient Forest was turned into Avalon sensed the strange atmosphere and muttered, but Lux and Aeril also couldn't tell her.
『Then, I'll free the Abyss with my authority so, Lux-kun please stand guard so that no one will disturÔöÇÔöÇ…-!?』
『Watch out Aeril!』
The moment Aeril reached out toward the object that was the activation device, Lux felt a presence and drove his Wyvern in front of the girl to protect her.
Instantly a single thrust of a lance that moved through the shortest route without any pointless motion was reflexively blocked by Lux's Blade.
 
Yeah pretty much. You don't just feel your opponenet's rythym (like with normal Seikuken) you match and overpower it too, and it's not a whole ball around you, its skin thick seikuken but it allows for some rather....badass Ryusoi Seikuke showings. Anyway a list of what it can do: He peaks all 5 of his senses, gains a 6th sense, and makes movements accurate to the milimeter. After he improves it he learns to read the heart and thoughts of his opponent. "Cooperate with the opponent's movements, then combine with the opponent and finally dominating my own movements over his". Besides just overpowering the opponent's rythym with your own (so basically if you fight a dude who's using Ryusui Sekiken his attacks would dominate because like Shou stated all of his strength was sapped by Kenichi.

Cus it means the technique does all of that and more. Also feat for Fugil doing the technique from Kruc with skilll?

Feat for the hearing from that distance? Also down to the level of hearing electric signals the body sends and the air pressure formed just before someone punches him.

It literally says Lux felt a presence lol. He didn't just get hit not feeling anything.
 
I would say is similar to this, but I'm not too sure:

Lisesharte who caught Lux Arcadia cancelled <Tiamat>'s connection and laughed.
How many humans were there in this place that understood of the fearful Lux Arcadia with the current offense and defense?
『――the signal for the bombardment will be after I raise my sword.』
The first words which he said with the dragon voice's communication.
In other words, that bargaining itself where it was thought that the Gargoyle outwitted Lux Arcadia was the scenario which Lux Arcadia had drawn up completely.
Even the fact that he applied an attack on the enemy and attracted his attention to him (Lux) by making him think "this guy is dangerous".
Even his fighting action in order to protect the audience seats below was also included.
Everything was to drive in a blow with all his might and to make Lisesharte attack at that opportunity――
I mean, peaking the 5 senses is basically what Fugil does when in the novel says that he has superhuman five senses and even better control over them than Philuffy who can actually manipulate all of them, and even then Yoruka has a sixth sense that even allows her to sense invisible opponents. Reading the heart and thoughts of your opponents is what I told you about Fugil and Aeril.

I guess Seikuken is superior to Ruten then, I don't have that much feats from Ruten. I think here:

Looking just from that, it was a weapon with terrifying function, but if they fought in the way that matched each form then there would be a mean of survival for them.
And then, the Sword Device at the waist was behind a barrier and it was hard to aim at, but with Krulcifer's precise sniping that could even pass through the eye of needle and her future prediction, it was possible to hit it.
*Pashi-!*
Just like in the future prediction, Krulcifer's shot sent the Sword Device flying.
The Sword Device that was also the control stick for mind control operation was taken away. If it was destroyed or frozen, the control of Drag-Ride would be reduced by half after that.
"Philuffy! Your turn!"
Krulcifer deliberately called out was to divert Fugil's focus to that way.
Krulcifer herself also didn't pause and fired her freezing bullet toward the sword dancing in the air.
But, the trajectory of the Sword Device suddenly changed. It was pulled back toward Fugil.
"-……!?"
Fugil quickly picked up the Sword Device with his empty hand, next he swept away Pile Anchor with his great sword.
"You can only read the future that far? Stop with the pointless attack. It has no meaning in a fight with me."
Fugil spoke shortly with a composed expression.
"He pulled back the thrown Sword Device with Linker Pulse!? Did he predict our action already!?"
.
Even then, Lux can hypotethize every possibility of counter attack, Singlen can predict whole battles ahead of his opponent

Here it is:

In addition she was also several kl further away from the young man, so Raffi didn't notice her watching everything from start to end.
The distance was insufficient in order to obtain image recording, but it could be said to be enough to report to Lux.
Rather since the young man was captured, she did nothing but focusing on the two's conversation to not miss anything.
She heard their conversation from there. I don't think I have something like hearing the elctrical signals, but again, why are we disccussing "who has the best hearing"?

What about this one?:

While Yoruka was thinking of what to do, a bush suddenly swayed from the wind.
"ÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇÔöÇ"
That in itself wasn't suspicious at all. But,
*Dosu dosu dosu-!*
Her curious intuition worked and Yoruka instantly leaped away. In that instant, countless needles stabbed the ground where she was standing at just now and opening many holes.
"…? How did you dodge? Even if you are a strengthened human who had received Baptism, you should have been completely taken by surprise just now. Can you tell me for the sake of future reference?"
 
I don't see any similarity tbh. Maybe im missing the point but i fail to see a martial arts technique there that works on superceeding the opponent's moves.

Fine on the rest, but i believe you're underestimating "reading the hearts and thoughts here". He doesn't just read minds, he literally understands someone deep inside (example he saw that Sho Kanou despite all his actions was in fact just very very lonely), so the very core emotions of someone.

Ok fair enough on the prediction then. Stalemate here.

That's not hearing, she says "image recording" she's just looking and reading lips. Also we're having a debate on senses so i guess that's why we're arguing here.

Nah, still not, she had her intuition that warned her of the danger. Not actually by surprise.
 
It says in there that the scenario of the Abyss outwitting Lux was the scenario Lux already had, basically what Lux did was making a move to benefit his opponent to make him believe that he would win just to later defeat it because that was part of what he was doing. It was Lux making the actions his opponent wanted him to do like if he was lured to defeat him because in reality his opponent was making what Lux wanted him to do.

Ok, I'll just post a quote of Fugil's ability to read thoughts and let you see:

She was at this disadvantage even with the support of trajectory control from Soffice's Divine Raiment. The countdown of her limit was approaching near.
(Unbelievable. This kind of man has existed even from more than a thousand years ago……!)
It was fine and all that she had sworn to take revenge for her sisters, but it didn't seem like it could be turned into reality with Aeril's strength.
In that case, she had to at least deal a hit as payback. No matter what, she had to stop this man's schemeÔöÇÔöÇ
"What a foolish thinking that is, taking revenge for fools who mistook their path."
Fugil spat out that line expressionlessly as though he had seen through Aeril's resolve.
There was disappointment, disdain, and then hollow scorn there.
It says she couldn't obtain image recording at all because of the distance, the only way she knew what they were talking was either having that good hearing or having that good vision to read their lips, in any case, her senses are better than a camera.

I'm going to keep searching for this, so I go back to this point later.
 
That's just normally tricking the opponent though. I do that to trick ppl all the time Not really Ryusui Seikuken.

Hmm, is that even "mind reading"? Seems like something you'd figure out easily. I mean he killed her sisters and sees her angry trying to beat him, feels like it'd be pretty easy to connect the dots there with the "She's trying to get revenge".

Everybody's senses are better than a camera though. Look at the distance these guys see and read lips from Binocular eyeballs xD.

So at the moment i win?
 
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