Shovel Knight 2-C

[KLOL506]

Trying my best to keep the thread civil, but without thread mod or admin rights, I can honestly only do so much.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Page 5 woohoo

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Trying my best to keep the thread civil, but without thread mod or admin rights, I can honestly only do so much.

For what is worth, I don't think a warning needs to take place yet

I can at least understand Ziller getting triggered for feeling misunderstood. If something more arises, then I would take action.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I should not be awake currently, but since I am and I can see the recent discussions on here, I'm going to take a moment to say that things are getting far more hostile than they need to be.

We've all seen threads like this time and time again, where it starts with a controversial proposal, moves into a debate, creates greater and greater polarisation and hostility, and eventually someone ends up doing something that ends up on the RVRT.

Please, everyone, have some foresight. We've seen this happen before. If you agree that it's not something that should happen, then do what is necessary to not be the person who ends up on the RVRT. Take a breather, get a glass of water, take some time away from the computer. Whatever suits you.

I am but a mirror, always have been- a mean and bitter old coot who yells when yelled at. Frankly a poor choice for staff but some people just don't listen to good advice when they hear it, harhar.

Regardless, as Ziller has dropped that argument, we're (probably) fine to continue.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And to think we were so close to getting 2-C on Shovel Knight's profile

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I am but a mirror, always have been- a mean and bitter old coot who yells when yelled at.

 

[KLOL506]

Less headaches the better

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And to think we were so close to getting 2-C on Shovel Knight's profile

My advice, just turn this into a crt to slightly change the crossover rules, then proceed to bargain for a 2nd key/possibly rating, then gauge to see who’s willing to go higher at the end of it all. That’s really the only way this gets accepted due to the current roadblock.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

And to think we were so close to getting 2-C on Shovel Knight's profile

my x-men proved to be quite the force, stopping bs upgrades

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Now to scale Kratos to Shovel Knight.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So out of curiosity is anyone gonna bring up all those anti feats?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So out of curiosity is anyone gonna bring up all those anti feats?

The consistent scale of the verse is tier 8 to 7. The verse also showcases quite a low power scale overall ("Urban", as DDM puts it), with no elaboration nor lore to support anything higher. The ultimate weapon as deviced by Plague Knight has at most a 8-A rating, being the thing that collapsed the Tower of Fate, an event that threatened Shovel Knight and Black Knight.

A single feat of tier 2 is, thus, an outlier through a simple data review. You can keep asking for anti-feats, it doesn't change the facts. The verse does not operate at these levels and have nothing to suggest they do.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The consistent scale of the verse is tier 8 to 7. The verse also showcases quite a low power scale overall ("Urban", as DDM puts it), with no elaboration nor lore to support anything higher. The ultimate weapon as deviced by Plague Knight has at most a 8-A rating, being the thing that collapsed the Tower of Fate, an event that threatened Shovel Knight and Black Knight.

A single feat of tier 2 is, thus, an outlier through a simple data review. You can keep asking for anti-feats, it doesn't change the facts. The verse does not operate at these levels and have nothing to suggest they do.

Okay, then let me rephrase
There are a lot of tier 8 or 9 feats, sure, now I was looking for something that suggests or implies that it can’t be much higher is all. Specifically, I’d like examples that don’t really go against the way we treat destructive capacity.

 

[Armorchompy]

So out of curiosity is anyone gonna bring up all those anti feats?

shield knight struggles to match some random big blade mounted on a piston, first one i could think of, here you go

 

[Armorchompy]

(and that's disregarding shit like "several bosses use completely conventional explosives in their fights")

 

[KLOL506]

Now to scale Kratos to Shovel Knight.

Nah. High 1-B it shall be.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

now I was looking for something that suggests or implies that it can’t be much higher is all.

Unfortunately, that's not how we operate as a wiki. We go with the low-ball assumption, as it's safest, unless we have reason to go with the high-ball. Considering you yourself have not brought a single reason to suggest such a high statistic when compared to the rest of the verse and its scale, I rest my case.

 

[KLOL506]

I think it is pretty evident that neither party will be convinced of the other's arguments, so just agree to disagree, vote, and move on.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

shield knight struggles to match some random big blade mounted on a piston, first one i could think of, here you go

1. that’s LS, which doesn’t mean much. Goku’s ass is shown to struggle with shit like thousands of tons actually
2. She easily pulverizes it a second later

stuff like this could potentially become a pattern if more of these anti feats are brought up, so I was actually quite excited for more of these to come up

Unfortunately, that's not how we operate as a wiki. We go with the low-ball assumption, as it's safest, unless we have reason to go with the high-ball. Considering you yourself have not brought a single reason to suggest such a high statistic when compared to the rest of the verse and its scale, I rest my case.

we actually tend to put the highballs as possibly values, actually, we do that literally all the time, especially when there’s no anti feats.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I think it is pretty evident that neither party will be convinced of the other's arguments, so just agree to disagree, vote, and move on.

but we’re just getting to the good part

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

we actually tend to put the highballs as possibly values, actually, we do that literally all the time, especially when there’s no anti feats.

No, we don't. Whoever is applying that is getting away with something that shouldn't be the case. And that's me taking your word that it's a similar case here and they have no reason to suggest said scale.

 

[Armorchompy]

1. that’s LS, which doesn’t mean much. Goku’s ass is shown to struggle with shit like thousands of tons actually

If she was 2-C she could literally just walk through it LMAO

Also Kratos is Immeasurable LS anyways

2. She easily pulverizes it a second later

She doesn't "easily" do anything, she seriously struggles to disable it by breaking (NOT pulverizing) it after seconds of effort

 

[KLOL506]

we actually tend to put the highballs as possibly values, actually, we do that literally all the time, especially when there’s no anti feats.

That's assuming there's a justifiable reason for this to actually happen. Which I honestly don't see anything for TBF.

Again, even with the canonicity stuff being settled, it now ultimately falls down to whether this is a massive outlier or not. From the looks of it, it very clearly seems to be likely.

 

[DaReaperMan]

my x-men proved to be quite the force, stopping bs upgrades

Lmfao

Also Kratos is Immeasurable LS anyways

You show me in the fight where Kratos and Shovel Knight enter an LS clash. I'll wait.

 

[Armorchompy]

You show me in the fight where Kratos and Shovel Knight enter an LS clash. I'll wait.

Several GoW characters are rated as Immeasurable without any actual grappling involved, just by saying "scaling to [category of characters]". I don't see why this wouldn't be the case for Shovel Knight.

And this is secondary to the argument anyways.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If she was 2-C she could literally just walk through it LMAO

Also Kratos is Immeasurable LS anyways

She doesn't "easily" do anything, she seriously struggles to disable it by breaking (NOT pulverizing) it after seconds of effort

Well in that case
8-C character can still break a goofy piece of metal anyways.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well in that case
8-C character can still break a goofy piece of metal anyways.

There's a bit of a gap between "character struggles with something that's a dozen times under their AP" and "character struggles with something literally more than infinitely under their AP", you can't hope for perfect consistency in battle-boarding, that doesn't mean that you should throw the very concept of it to the wolves.

Also every SK character is threatened by a large tower collapsing on them in the ending of the first game so like, lmao

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Also every SK character is threatened by a large tower collapsing on them in the ending of the first game so like, lmao

stop cherry picking, buster

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

There's a bit of a gap between "character struggles with something that's a dozen times their AP" and "character struggles with something literally more than infinitely under their AP", you can't hope for perfect consistency in battle-boarding, that doesn't mean that you should throw the very concept of it to the wolves.

Also every SK character is threatened by a large tower collapsing on them in the ending of the first game so like, lmao

2-c feat right there.

 

[KLOL506]

Slowly comment by comment Option A doesn't seem to be such a bad compromise anymore, at least that way Kratos gets a new SK image on his profile and his SK key is basically Norse Kratos but no Norse gear on

 

[DaReaperMan]

Slowly comment by comment Option A doesn't seem to be such a bad compromise anymore, at least that way Kratos gets a new SK image on his profile and his SK key is basically Norse Kratos but no Norse gear on

I mean it'd be based either way

 

[ZillertheBucko]

There's a bit of a gap between "character struggles with something that's a dozen times their AP" and "character struggles with something literally more than infinitely under their AP", you can't hope for perfect consistency in battle-boarding, that doesn't mean that you should throw the very concept of it to the wolves.

I am pretty sure bending thin pieces of metal is more than dozens of times below their AP
and also, kratos tree level.
I honestly can’t name a single time an infinite character is really portrayed properly in any verse either. Even in a situation where an infinite character just gets their neck slightly budged after taking a hit from a finite dude is completely unreasonable logically, but we just conclude that because they’re shown to be greater anyways, the exact power gap isn’t really relevant to it,

Also every SK character is threatened by a large tower collapsing on them in the ending of the first game so like, lmao

Which is vastly below 8-C as well, cause funny surface area of rubble.
and remnant of fate was still in the middle of ******* exploding, so the tower collapse itself isn’t really important regardless.

 

[Armorchompy]

and also, kratos tree level.

listen i don't know how to make it clearer that i have no clue what any of you mean when you talk about god of war, for all you know i'd think kratos is 9-B and yall are just wanking him if i played the games

I honestly can’t name a single time an infinite character is really portrayed properly in any verse either. Even in a situation where an infinite character just gets their neck slightly budged after taking a hit from a finite dude is completely unreasonable logically, but we just conclude that because they’re shown to be greater anyways, the exact power gap isn’t really relevant to it,

So why were you even asking for anti-feats if you're now just going to discard the very concept of them? Pretty ****** sus

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah, I disagree with the OP based on arguments everyone else before me said.
these threads have been made so many times im considering making a discussion rule about making crts where you scale shovel knight to kratos or the 2-B stuff from blade strangers

 

[ZillertheBucko]

listen i don't know how to make it clearer that i have no clue what any of you mean when you talk about god of war

You say that as if I’ve ever touched god of war either
I am starting to hate tier 2 verses. And I don’t want to see them again. Minus shovel knight.

So why were you even asking for anti-feats if you're now just going to discard the very concept of them? Pretty ****** sus

Strawman
I’m saying that characters who are vastly superior to something may still be shown not one shotting or not blitzing or stuff like that, so anti feats like that are a little shaky.

 

[KLOL506]

I honestly could care less about what people rate GoW at, as long as they don't engage in disingenuous and egregious downplay with some of the worst arguments known to mankind (Because believe me when I say this, that a lot of the arguments against rating GoW at cosmic tier are just borderline horseshit and just a pathetic showcase of extreme and utter disingenuousness). But honestly that's massively derailing at this point and isn't even tackling Shovel Knight's own feats or even the "outlier" argument we were supposed to deal with a couple comments ago.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This is one of those cases where even the people disagreeing know 100% for sure that the devs of god of war and shovel knight would look at our rating, say “that’s wrong”, and then be ignored.

 

[Shmooply]

This is one of those cases where even the people disagreeing know 100% for sure that the devs of god of war and shovel knight would look at our rating, say “that’s wrong”, and then be ignored.

Why should we care about off-site opinions of our site?

 

[Lou_change]

So I want to point out this might actually be reasonable looking at other feats shovel showdown has the cast seemingly destroy an alternate dimension, the ultimate potion is a concoction which is said to grant the unfathomable power to reshape the world to one's wish to whoever drinks it and the knights essence is used to create it. It being used to only destroy the tower is likely due to that being what plague knight and Mona wish to use it for.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So I want to point out this might actually be reasonable shovel showdown has the cast seemingly destroy an alternate dimension, the ultimate potion is a concoction which is said to grant the unfathomable power to reshape the world to one's wish to whoever drinks it and the knights essence is used to create it. It being used to only destroy the tower is likely due to that being what plague knight and Mona wish to use it for.

Okay I think I’m gonna look at this because wtf