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Shin Megami Tensei: Higher-Dimensional YHVH?

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Matthew_Schroeder

Matthew_Schroeder

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Hey people, making this thread because I feel some characters from SMT may be a lot stronger than we currently rank them as...

As of now, YHVH's true form, the Playble Characters from Apocalypse, Apocalypse Satan and Vishnuflynn are all ranked at High 2-A, due to YHVH transcending the multiverse and being made of infinite heads, when a single one of his heads is At least 2-A.

However, upon further examining the game's end, I feel it might be way more impressive:

When you first arrive into the game's final dungeon, YHVH's Universe / YHVH-Space, this description appears:

YHVH'sUniverse
(Yes, I'm screenshoting from youtube videos)

YHVH's universe is "More infinite and more vague" than everything before it, which includes the entire Amala Network, an infinite Multiverse, and The Expanse, the space in-between all universes. That alone would warrant High 2-A.

However, that is only YHVH-Space's 1st Brane. In truth, YHVH's Universe is divided into 4 Brane-Layers, each being a higher-dimension.

1stBrane
2nd Brane
3rdBrane
As if that wasn't enough, YHVH's Throne is located in an even Higher-Layer, called Non-Euclidian Space.

YHVH Throne
And as YHVH himself states, all this exists only because he exists, as all there is is a part of him.

YHVHQuote
If we accept each of those Layers as a Higher-Dimension, as each is a Higher-Layer of existence, more infinite than the previous, the end result would be thus:

Amala Network: 4D Multiverse

YHVH-Space's 1st Brane-Layer: 5D

2nd Brane-Layer: 6D

3rd Brane-Layer: 7D

4th Brane-Layer: 8D

YHVH's Throne / Non-Euclidian Space: 9D

YHVH Himself: 10D

In addition, I know we shouldn't tie ourselves to them, but ACF Wiki ranks YHVH at 1-C:

http://ru.anime-characters-fight.wikia.com/wiki/%D0%99%D0%A5%D0%92%D0%A5

If this is accepted, we would have...

High 1-C YHVH

High 1-C Endgame Apocalypse Characters

High 1-C Apocalypse Sata

Possibly High 1-C Vishnuflyn

High 1-C Stephe

In addition, The Great Will, the supreme being of the SMT Verse would be rendered as a 11th Dimensional being. It's amazing how that fits with the "scientific" view of the Multiverse.

Do people aprove this or not?
 
Tier 1 SMT again, huh? I remember they were before they got downgraded....forgot what happened that time but it was way while back.

Anyways this seems alright to me from the looks of it.
 
They used to be Tier 1 because the profiles ignored Dimensional Tiering and how it works.

But that was years ago, and before Apocalypse.
 
@Matt: Ah see, that was a long ago man. Can't remember shit like that. Then again i don't follow the series so i shouldn't really say anything about it. ^^;
 
I'm skeptical. The wording doesn't seem to imply that those dimensions are higher. Another plane or another dimension doesn't imply that they are higher.
 
Well, the very fact that they call each layer a "Brane", and describe the first one is "More infinite and more vague" is strong evidence.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology

"The central idea is that the visible, three-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane inside a higher-dimensional space, called the "bulk" (also known as "hyperspace"). If the additional dimensions are compact, then the observed universe contains the extra dimensions, and then no reference to the bulk is appropriate. In the bulk model, at least some of the extra dimensions are extensive (possibly infinite), and other branes may be moving through this bulk. Interactions with the bulk, and possibly with other branes, can influence our brane and thus introduce effects not seen in more standard cosmological models."

By calling each layer a Brane, they are explictly talking about Higher-Dimensions.
 
Not to be rude but your definition of Brane doesn't imply at all that it is a higher dimensions. A Brane is inside a higher dimensional space, but multiples branes doesn't imply multiples higher dimensions
 
It may be best for someone like Azzy or DarLK to comment here as well since they are very knowledgable of Higher Dimension stuff.
 
Mmm. Yeah then again, Dragon does have a point. Azathoth and/or DarkLK should be brought up to here regarding about this...
 
I am also uncertain if branes necessarily imply higher dimensions. In multiverse theory, they are strictly 4-dimensional, as far as I am aware.

I am not good enough at math nowadays to know if non-euclidean space refers to higher dimensions. Perhaps DontTalk, DarkLK, or The Living Tribunal1 would be able to help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry
 
@Ant

It's less about what they are in science, and more of what they are in the game.

The narration explictly mentions "This place is more infinite and more vague than everything you've seen before..." when you enter the 1st Brane. And when traveling to the second Brane, the narration describes that you have to travel to another dimension, another plane of the universe.
 
On my end, I'm still very unsure. The concept of brane seems to refer universes, and both the another "dimensions" and "plane" can also be used to refer to alternate universes. But I'll let the knowledgable peeps decide.
 
Well, okay. You might be right then, but I would prefer more knowledgeable input from the community.
 
It's definitely not alternate universes, considering YHVH's Universe exists above the Multiverse. Hell, one of YHVH's weakest avatars is the Multiverse.

... From the depths beyond the meridian, Beyond the infinite Amala my guardian will come

Existing in that place, it is outside the flow of time A being without even a name...
 
I've messaged DarkLK and Azzy about this. I'm on the fence on this since I don't know if this means Higher Dimensions or not. This is similar to Digimon with the Hyper Dimensions being beyond our current understanding.. I mean this has more things kinda supporting it.
 
@Matt I'm not denying that, I'm saying that the "branes" inside YHVH's universe could simply be other "universes" inside it, instead of being higher dimensions.
 
Again, a "plane" or a "dimension" doesn't imply that those are higher than the previous. Much like several fictions possess alternate planes of reality.
 
Well, Higher-Dimensions are a thing in SMT. It's explictly mentione in SMT IV.


Can you perceive me now, then? Little creature, of lower dimensions...
 
Wouldn't that just be a 5th Dimensional character talking to a bunch of 4-D characters? Or talking to 4-D characters who just reached the 5-D plane?
 
That is Sanat, a being comparable to the Ancient of Days (YHVH) Avatar, talking to humans.

So in that case it's a 4-D being talking to 3-D people. But YHVH is a special case, he is far above and beyond anything else.
 
I think Matt is more likely trying to prove that scientific dimensions exists in the SMT verse. But still, unless the term "dimension" was exclusively used for spatial dimensions, it shouldn't be used to prove that the "dimensions" in YHVH's universe are spatial ones.
 
Well we should wait until Azzy or DarkLK comment here before we make any decisions or take any sides.
 
When and where was this implied? The only thing I can recall is when it was noted his presence existed throughout Creation, however, all other branches of creation are infinitely smaller than his own realm, so I'm curious as to what made you come to this conclusion.
 
YHVHQuote.png
 
YHVH is also the embodiment of Infinity. And his Throne Room exists beyond YHVH's Universe, too.

Shin Megami Tensei uses the word "world" for parallel realities or universes. Like how Maitreya visited 5.657 billion worlds.

SMT never uses the word "Dimension" to mean parallel worlds / realities. Hell, YHVH-Space is the only time they are brought up in the game, alongside Sanat's mentioning of Lower-Dimensions when referring to humans.

And since the narration calls YHVH's First Brane-Layer infinitely larger than everything before it, it's only logical to assume that such a description applies to all of his layers, as each is a new dimension / plane of existence.
 
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