Shijima Mei's Picture Worlds are Universes CRT

[Yeolban]

In Jibaku Shounen Hanako-kun, there's School Mystery No. 4, Shijima Mei. She is capable of painting entire worlds on her canvas, which are currently considered Multi-Solar System in size due to them presenting starry skies.

Oh, by the way, an UES for the JSHK cast was already accepted in another CRT, so this won't have a problem translating into AP.

JSHK has the concept of "lifespans", which are predetermined from birth. In other words, fate and time. With that in mind, Hanako explains that Shijima's worlds are completely cut off from reality: That Shijima Mei's world can make Yashiro live beyond her assigned lifespan, that she can evade her predetermined future, even making her live forever.

Shijima's worlds reflect the wishes within people's hearts, so her world is extremely similar with the real world, with key differences. Even the stars in the sky mirror the real world. The cast repeatedly mentions "The Real World" on multiple occasions.

Her worlds are entirely at her mercy: Shijima explains how they are inside Shijima Mei's Painting. When Yashiro gets out of the Painting, and shows the real Shijima drawing it- Her true self was never in the Picture World, but was the one drawing it. She is even shown drawing other worlds where she imprisons the living. She can control everything inside the worlds she creates: She could make Hanako have the traits of a living human, despite not being one, and get along well with characters that normally hated him. The same case was with Mitsuba, and similarly, Nene did not turn into a fish in contact with water anymore. Even various events within the picture world are orchestrated by Shijima- be it the pool cleaning or the meteor shower. In essence, they're nothing but drawings on Shijima's canvas.

Who would scale?
Now, according to the Universe page, creating universes grants you low 2-C.

• Shijima Mei should be the obvious character who receives this rating first. The question is who scales to her.
• Hanako (Hakujoudai Cloak Key): Shijima Mei stated that if it weren't for him realizing that Nene can live in her world, he would've already destroyed it.
• Minamoto Teru: He is much stronger than Hanako in his Hakujoudai Cloak key.
• Hakubo: He was easily able to defeat Teru and even called him weak.
• Minamoto Kou (Spirit Blade Key): I'd give him a "likely" or "at most" for this, I'm not entirely sure, but he was able to give Hakubo a grievous injury. I'm saying "at most" since Kou should be normally far weaker than Hakubo and Teru. He can normally barely hold out against base Hanako, for reference.
• Likely Hyuuga Natsuhiko: I'm not sure if he counts, but he would scale off Hakubo as well, as he could knock him out. However, Hakubo was already severely wounded, so I'm not sure if he applies.
• Yugi Tsukasa: Shijima Mei doesn't disobey him, despite him not having any authority over her. He was shown to be far superior in combat than the other School Mysteries, and this should include Hanako. The same case is with Hyuuga Natsuhiko.

Agree: @DavidTPPM @Theglassman12 @hiro_is_a_superior_being @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Robo432343 @LephyrTheRevanchist @TISSG7Redgrave @Planck69
Disagree: @Mr. Bambu (neutral to a possibly rating)

 

[Yeolban]

bump

 

[Yeolban]

hello hello another bump

 

[Yeolban]

bump I need to gather more supporters for this verse I swear

 

[DavidTPPM]

Looks good enough

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

i have yet to reach this part of the story I will give my vote when I do

 

[Yeolban]

i have yet to reach this part of the story I will give my vote when I do

alright.

 

[Yeolban]

bump....................................

 

[DavidTPPM]

bump....................................

Rookie mistake. You need to sacrifice at least 3 newborns per staff to get a CRT approved

 

[Yeolban]

Rookie mistake. You need to sacrifice at least 3 newborns per staff to get a CRT approved

something like that

 

[Theglassman12]

Looks fine to me

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

In Jibaku Shounen Hanako-kun, there's School Mystery No. 4, Shijima Mei. She is capable of painting entire worlds on her canvas, which are currently considered Multi-Solar System in size due to them presenting starry skies.

Oh, by the way, an UES for the JSHK cast was already accepted in another CRT, so this won't have a problem translating into AP.

JSHK has the concept of "lifespans", which are predetermined from birth. In other words, fate and time. With that in mind, Hanako explains that Shijima's worlds are completely cut off from reality: That Shijima Mei's world can make Yashiro live beyond her assigned lifespan, that she can evade her predetermined future, even making her live forever.

Shijima's worlds reflect the wishes within people's hearts, so her world is extremely similar with the real world, with key differences. Even the stars in the sky mirror the real world. The cast repeatedly mentions "The Real World" on multiple occasions.

Her worlds are entirely at her mercy: Shijima explains how they are inside Shijima Mei's Painting. When Yashiro gets out of the Painting, and shows the real Shijima drawing it- Her true self was never in the Picture World, but was the one drawing it. She is even shown drawing other worlds where she imprisons the living. She can control everything inside the worlds she creates: She could make Hanako have the traits of a living human, despite not being one, and get along well with characters that normally hated him. The same case was with Mitsuba, and similarly, Nene did not turn into a fish in contact with water anymore. Even various events within the picture world are orchestrated by Shijima- be it the pool cleaning or the meteor shower. In essence, they're nothing but drawings on Shijima's canvas.

Who would scale?
Now, according to the Universe page, creating universes grants you low 2-C.

• Shijima Mei should be the obvious character who receives this rating first. The question is who scales to her.
• Hanako (Hakujoudai Cloak Key): Shijima Mei stated that if it weren't for him realizing that Nene can live in her world, he would've already destroyed it.
• Minamoto Teru: He is much stronger than Hanako in his Hakujoudai Cloak key.
• Hakubo: He was easily able to defeat Teru and even called him weak.
• Minamoto Kou (Spirit Blade Key): I'd give him a "likely" or "at most" for this, I'm not entirely sure, but he was able to give Hakubo a grievous injury. I'm saying "at most" since Kou should be normally far weaker than Hakubo and Teru. He can normally barely hold out against base Hanako, for reference.
• Likely Hyuuga Natsuhiko: I'm not sure if he counts, but he would scale off Hakubo as well, as he could knock him out. However, Hakubo was already severely wounded, so I'm not sure if he applies.
• Yugi Tsukasa: Shijima Mei doesn't disobey him, despite him not having any authority over her. He was shown to be far superior in combat than the other School Mysteries, and this should include Hanako. The same case is with Hyuuga Natsuhiko.

Agree: @DavidTPPM @Theglassman12
Disagree:

This looks damn good, I approve of it

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Low 2-C seems fine to me.

 

[Yeolban]

It would seem I need the approval of one admin for this one

 

[Robo432343]

agree

 

[Yeolban]

bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

JSHK has the concept of "lifespans", which are predetermined from birth. In other words, fate and time.

I don't understand how this relates to Low 2-C, I will require elaboration.

With that in mind, Hanako explains that Shijima's worlds are completely cut off from reality

This would seem to be the criteria for being a Pocket Reality, although said realities are not considered intrinsically Low 2-C, otherwise all feats of creating a dimension with a starry sky would be so.

That Shijima Mei's world can make Yashiro live beyond her assigned lifespan, that she can evade her predetermined future, even making her live forever.

Still unclear on how this relates to AP.

Shijima's worlds reflect the wishes within people's hearts, so her world is extremely similar with the real world, with key differences. Even the stars in the sky mirror the real world. The cast repeatedly mentions "The Real World" on multiple occasions.

While it is possible this is meant to go to Low 2-C, but it isn't concrete proof.

Her worlds are entirely at her mercy: Shijima explains how they are inside Shijima Mei's Painting. When Yashiro gets out of the Painting, and shows the real Shijima drawing it- Her true self was never in the Picture World, but was the one drawing it. She is even shown drawing other worlds where she imprisons the living. She can control everything inside the worlds she creates: She could make Hanako have the traits of a living human, despite not being one, and get along well with characters that normally hated him. The same case was with Mitsuba, and similarly, Nene did not turn into a fish in contact with water anymore. Even various events within the picture world are orchestrated by Shijima- be it the pool cleaning or the meteor shower. In essence, they're nothing but drawings on Shijima's canvas.

All of this can seemingly be true without the paintings being Low 2-C.

 

[Yeolban]

Still unclear on how this relates to AP.

My bad, this verse already has an UES that converts everything related to world creation/governing directly to AP approved. It's why the majority of the characters are 4-A.

My arguments present her worlds being universe-sized which, according to the universe page, would translate into the creator being low 2-C if converted to AP.

I don't understand how this relates to Low 2-C, I will require elaboration.

Yashiro Nene has a predetermined future she cannot avoid. Multiple characters mention how the future cannot be changed. However, Hanako explains that because Shijima's world is completely cut off from reality, time is included in that equation- Yashiro is able to evade her fate and live past her lifespan. Another character even mentions how in this world, Yashiro would be able to grow up and marry Amane when in the real world she would die before she reached 16. I meant to argue that it works on a separate time axis.

While it is possible this is meant to go to Low 2-C, but it isn't concrete proof.

It's more of a supporting argument to the first one, as it's listed as a qualification on the universe page. I understand that it's not enough by itself.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yashiro Nene has a predetermined future she cannot avoid. Multiple characters mention how the future cannot be changed. However, Hanako explains that because Shijima's world is completely cut off from reality, time is included in that equation- Yashiro is able to evade her fate and live past her lifespan. Another character even mentions how in this world, Yashiro would be able to grow up and marry Amane when in the real world she would die before she reached 16. I meant to argue that it works on a separate time axis.

It could be other things without context. I think that's the damning facet of it all.

For now I'd vote against, I think the evidence is a little light.

 

[Yeolban]

It could be other things without context. I think that's the damning facet of it all.

For now I'd vote against, I think the evidence is a little light.

Sure, but what do you mean by "it could be other things without context"?

Though I thought this would fit 2 of the criteria for a world being an universe.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It could be other things without context. I think that's the damning facet of it all.

What else could it be? Nene has a fate dictated by the future which cannot be changed. The picture world allows her to live independent of that predetermined future and is stated to be completely separate from the "real world". This heavily implies the picture world is its own individual spacetime continuum.

Furthermore the PW is stated to be a "world" on many occasions and contains a night sky perfectly mirroring the real world's, proving its a world of significant size. Which is another qualifier for a universe sized realm.

Wouldn't this evidence be at least enough for a "possibly" or "at most" rating? It would be a bit weird to ignore it given the narrative importance of the picture world having it's own future and the manga blatantly going out of its way to show us even things like individual stars in the sky are perfectly identical to the real world.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What else could it be? Nene has a fate dictated by the future which cannot be changed. The picture world allows her to live independent of that predetermined future and is stated to be completely separate from the "real world". This heavily implies the picture world is its own individual spacetime continuum.

Furthermore the PW is stated to be a "world" on many occasions and contains a night sky perfectly mirroring the real world's, proving its a world of significant size. Which is another qualifier for a universe sized realm.

Wouldn't this evidence be at least enough for a "possibly" or "at most" rating? It would be a bit weird to ignore it given the narrative importance of the picture world having it's own future and the manga blatantly going out of its way to show us even things like individual stars in the sky are perfectly identical to the real world.

A limitation of the mechanic, a form of time manipulation in the creation of the pocket reality, etc. To be clear, because there seems to be some issue, I don't take issue with there being time manipulation occurring- I agree the scans reliably establish that. It's just not

The night sky isn't contested. Nor is that a contested element of the Low 2-C rating. If you feel it is necessary to reiterate it all again, though, I guess I don't really mind.

I think it is the status quo of this wiki to award things for very borderline cases, such that people have gotten comfortable with it. I don't think this warrants a "possibly", and certainly not an "at most"- the latter is for cases where a character has a displayed upper limit, not where the rating itself is uncertain. The former is awarded for possible instances, but there must obviously exist a threshold of reliability that must be crossed, otherwise all things are possibly any rating one wants. It is my opinion, then, that this doesn't pass that threshold- although (perhaps obviously, by definition) I am more accepting of it, I'd list myself as only neutral to "possibly".

 

[Yeolban]

I think it is the status quo of this wiki to award things for very borderline cases, such that people have gotten comfortable with it.

Implying that this is a very borderline case, what would a good justification look like? Because scrolling through the universe page's qualifications section, the arguments presented do match with some.

A limitation of the mechanic, a form of time manipulation in the creation of the pocket reality, etc.

This sort of mechanic has never been stated or implied to exist. Hanako, as presented in the scans, straight up says "This fictional place is completely cut off from reality. Yashiro has less than a year left. That is her predetermined future. But here in this fictional world... She can go beyond the limits placed on her lifespan." So I'm not sure how this implies a mechanic that... doesn't exist. He's literally just saying that Yashiro's future in the "Real World" isn't a thing in Shijima's world, therefore she can live far more than just the less than a year she has left.

It is my opinion, then, that this doesn't pass that threshold- although (perhaps obviously, by definition) I am more accepting of it, I'd list myself as only neutral to "possibly".

I updated your stance.

 

[DavidTPPM]

A limitation of the mechanic, a form of time manipulation in the creation of the pocket reality, etc. To be clear, because there seems to be some issue, I don't take issue with there being time manipulation occurring- I agree the scans reliably establish that.

I feel like those just seem like baseless assumptions. The picture world is said to be completely separate from the real world, it manipulating real worlds time would be pretty contradictory to that.

It's also not even slightly implied to be a limitation of the mechanic. If anything all statements seem to point towards this being caused by an aspect of the PW since Hanako specified that HERE in THIS world Nene can live beyond the limitations she had in the real world.

As for it being a pocket reality, that doesn't really matter. A pocket reality could still be universal in size so that possibility shouldn't be a defeater.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I feel like those just seem like baseless assumptions. The picture world is said to be completely separate from the real world, it manipulating real worlds time would be pretty contradictory to that.

This seems to imply you're innately assuming all pocket dimensions are universes, though. We don't follow that assumption, that is in fact the entire reason we require explicit confirmation in the first place- otherwise there'd be little point to the whole "dimension with a starry sky" calc, eh?

It's also not even slightly implied to be a limitation of the mechanic. If anything all statements seem to point towards this being caused by an aspect of the PW since Hanako specified that HERE in THIS world Nene can live beyond the limitations she had in the real world.

Yeah, a limitation of the mechanic that it doesn't operate in said pocket realms.

As for it being a pocket reality, that doesn't really matter. A pocket reality could still be universal in size so that possibility shouldn't be a defeater.

Correct, but it seems you're conflating that with Low 2-C. A pocket reality can be whatever tier, the fact that it is a pocket reality is irrelevant. In this instance, though, just the fact that it is that does not make it Low 2-C, this isn't the baseline assumption.

 

[DavidTPPM]

This seems to imply you're innately assuming all pocket dimensions are universes, though. We don't follow that assumption, that is in fact the entire reason we require explicit confirmation in the first place- otherwise there'd be little point to the whole "dimension with a starry sky" calc, eh?

No I'm not. Because all pocket dimensions don't have entirely separate futures.

Yeah, a limitation of the mechanic that it doesn't operate in said pocket realms.

No? Limitation placed on ON HER LIFE SPAN by the predetermined future.

Not only is the "mechanic having weakness to pocket realms" a completely baseless headcanon, it also straight up makes 0 sense.

It's like seeing a character destroy a planet and saying "hmm maybe the planet was made out of cotton candy so we can't actually say it's planet level"

Correct, but it seems you're conflating that with Low 2-C. A pocket reality can be whatever tier, the fact that it is a pocket reality is irrelevant. In this instance, though, just the fact that it is that does not make it Low 2-C, this isn't the baseline assumption.

I never claimed it being a pocket reality makes it a universe. I said it potentially being a pocket reality doesn't mean it can't be a universe

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We're getting into aggressive territory here, and I don't suspect much more will come of this, so I'll speak this once more and leave my vote as is- against outright Low 2-C, neutral to "possibly Low 2-C" being appended to the status quo.

No I'm not. Because all pocket dimensions don't have entirely separate futures.

You said that because they were separate realities, they were Low 2-C. Maybe it's just a massive miscommunication but I cannot see how that would mean anything other than what I said it meant. Regardless, I find this logic self evidently false.

No? Limitation placed on ON HER LIFE SPAN by the predetermined future.

Not only is the "mechanic having weakness to pocket realms" a completely baseless headcanon, it also straight up makes 0 sense.

It's like seeing a character destroy a planet and saying "hmm maybe the planet was made out of cotton candy so we can't actually say it's planet level"

"The ability can't affect her in here, so saying that's like a limitation is exactly like [completely unrelated thing]"

Like. I'm not even saying it is a limitation, you asked me for hypothetical alternatives and I spitballed off two that came to mind. You're attacking it as though it is the central point when it really isn't, and the way you're attacking it seems disingenuous with what was actually said.

I never claimed it being a pocket reality makes it a universe. I said it potentially being a pocket reality doesn't mean it can't be a universe

Either you did intend that, or you're making a colossal strawman. Nobody ever said it couldn't be a universe because it's a pocket reality. Again, I strongly think you've encountered a miscommunication down the line somewhere, but I'm not really in the headspace to deal with it, and I don't foresee dealing with it changing my point of view (since theoretically it would have been substantiated further if it could be), so.

TL;DR I'm still voting against the rating but will return to neutral in a case of it being changed to a "possibly Low 2-C". Cheers, thread.

 

[Yeolban]

The ability

It's not an ability. As in my presented scans in the original post, in the JSHK verse, lifespans are determined from birth. Every single living being has a predetermined future.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I wanna point out that this limitation is unlikely the case
As Lifespan is directly connected to the person's own time


When a person is about to die they literally do not have enough time beyond their lifespan thus they cannot even be moved to the future as shown in Mirai case of trying to turn Nene's time forward into the future

So The Painter had to do something about that thing that practically governs all that exist in the real world

also it was establish multiple times that future cannot be changed not even by Bookstacks that records all of past present and future into books because he will be erased if he attempts to

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I wanna point out that this limitation is unlikely the case
As Lifespan is directly connected to the person's own time


When a person is about to die they literally do not have enough time beyond their lifespan thus they cannot even be moved to the future as shown in Mirai case of trying to turn Nene's time forward into the future

So The Painter had to do something about that thing that practically governs all that exist in the real world

also it was establish multiple times that future cannot be changed not even by Bookstacks that records all of past present and future into books because he will be erased if he attempts to

Just to confirm that I'm understanding this correctly: You are connecting that these pocket realities contain Low 2-C sizes because each of these worlds can go beyond the "lifespan" of a person, which cannot be changed even by something that records all past, present and future, correct?

 

[Yeolban]

Just to confirm that I'm understanding this correctly: You are connecting that these pocket realities contain Low 2-C sizes because each of these worlds can go beyond the "lifespan" of a person, which cannot be changed even by something that records all past, present and future, correct?

Long story short it pretty much goes like this:

• Each living person has a predetermined future that cannot be changed, set in stone from the day they are born.
• Yashiro Nene's predetermined future is to die before she reaches 16, as by the start of the series she has less than a year to live left. This is confirmed by multiple characters, including Tsuchigomori, who has access to records of everyone's past, present and future, and mentions how the future cannot be changed. He even tested Kou by giving him a sneak peek of the future and challenged him to try to change it, which resulted in failure.
• Mirai, a character with the power to fast forward time, had no time to fast forward on Yashiro because she had no more time left.
• Hanako states verbatim that Shijima Mei's world is completely cut off from reality, meaning Yashiro can live past her predetermined lifespan and live far longer than she was fated to, implying that her world has a different space-time continuum.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Long story short it pretty much goes like this:

• Each living person has a predetermined future that cannot be changed, set in stone from the day they are born.
• Yashiro Nene's predetermined future is to die before she reaches 16, as by the start of the series she had less than a year to live left. This is confirmed by multiple characters, including Tsuchigomori, who has access to records of everyone's past, present and future, and mentions how the future cannot be changed. He even tested Kou by giving a sneak peek at the future and had him try to change it, which resulted in failure.
• Mirai, a character with the power to fast forward time, had no time to fast forward on Yashiro because she had no more time left.
• Hanako states verbatim that Shijima Mei's world is completely cut off from reality, meaning Yashiro can live past her predetermined lifespan and live far longer than she was fated to, implying that her world has a different space-time continuum.

I see.

I agree with Low 2-C then.

 

[Yeolban]

bump

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Seems fine to me.

 

[Yeolban]

Seems fine to me.

With 3 thread moderators and 1 administrator agreeing, I assume it is good to apply?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

With 3 thread moderators and 1 administrator agreeing, I assume it is good to apply?

They are an admin for jokes battle, not Vs Battle. Sorry

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000 @Planck69 @Damage3245 can I get your opinion on this?

 

[Yeolban]

They are an admin for jokes battle, not Vs Battle. Sorry

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000 @Planck69 @Damage3245 can I get your opinion on this?

The higher the rise the harder the fall.................................................. (shed a tear)

 

[Planck69]

Low 2-C is fine to me.

 

[Yeolban]

Then, it's good to apply?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Low 2-C is fine to me.

Thank you

Then, it's good to apply?

Should be fine now, yes