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Shanoa vs Dusknoir (pmd) (complete)
- Thread starter Waka1979
- Start date
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Following, Dusknoir has his optional stuff?
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Same as before, plus Martial Arts (Focus Punch, Brick Break), Energy Projection (Focus Blast), Telekinesis (Psychic), Weather Manipulation (Sunny Day), Power Nullification (Taunt), Electricity Manipulation (Charge Beam), Duplication (Double Team), Empathic Manipulation (Attract), Earth Manipulation (Earthquake), Statistics Amplification (Calm Mind), Forcefield Creation (Protect), Damage Boost (Facade), Transmutation, limited Absorption, Healing, Teleportation, Afterimage Creation, Fear Manipulation, Clairvoyance, Attack Reflection, Sleep Manipulation, limited Durability Negation, Resurrection, Resistance to Sleep Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement
Valiant_Abyss
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Who has the AP advantage?
Dusknoir is Low 2-C from being able to harm Primal Dialga who is Low 2-C with its heartbeat. I know nothing about castlevania though.
Dusknoir is Low 2-C from being able to harm Primal Dialga who is Low 2-C with its heartbeat. I know nothing about castlevania though.
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Shanoa should have a good scaling chain I think lemmie get back to you
Valiant_Abyss
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A few questions about Shanoa. How does her supernatural luck work? What level is her regeneration? How often does Shanoa make use of her soul manip and Danmaku? and finally, how smart is she?
I ask the last question because Dusknoir is a cunning mastermind who is well aware of his own weaknesses and trains to deal with them, he's able to formulate detailed plans on the fly that end up being mostly successful, and consistently outsmarts notably intelligent and experienced people such as the protagonist and groovyle.
I ask the last question because Dusknoir is a cunning mastermind who is well aware of his own weaknesses and trains to deal with them, he's able to formulate detailed plans on the fly that end up being mostly successful, and consistently outsmarts notably intelligent and experienced people such as the protagonist and groovyle.
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Alright so I think I've got an idea of Shanoa's scaling chain
Shanoa(W Dominus) >>>>>(One Shot) Dracula (OoE) >>>>>>(No sold) Shanoa >> Death (OoE) = Alucard (SoTN) > True Form Dracula (SoTN) > Dracula (SoTN) > Galamoth >>>>> Shaft (Feat above Baseline) > Richter being controlled by Shaft > Richter Belmont > Dracula (RoB) > Simon Belmont > Dracula (CV1) > Trevor Belmont > Dracula (CV3) > Leon Belmont > Dracula (LoI) >>> Death (LoI) >> Time Reaper => Low 2-C
Should say Shanoa using Dominus results in her dying, only reason she didn't in story was cause of deux ex machina stuff.
For her other things. Supernatural luck I think mostly just ties to her being more likely to score critical hits and item drops I think. Soul Manip ought to be similar to the Belmonts basically Shanoa just hits your soul directly with her attacks. I was told back with Simon vs Grovyle that the latter has a feat of resisting Soul Manip, not sure that will scale to Dusknoir however so I'll need a citation here to see if Dusknoir can scale to that.
Danmaku is basically just her flinging several meteors and magical arrows, considering she's a magic user by nature Shanoa tends to prefer ranged combat for the most part.
Shanoa should be pretty intelligent given she's listed as High, she was raised from birth pretty much to be a monster slayer and studied the art of glyphs and magic usage in order to combat Dracula and his minions for the day they should return.
Shanoa(W Dominus) >>>>>(One Shot) Dracula (OoE) >>>>>>(No sold) Shanoa >> Death (OoE) = Alucard (SoTN) > True Form Dracula (SoTN) > Dracula (SoTN) > Galamoth >>>>> Shaft (Feat above Baseline) > Richter being controlled by Shaft > Richter Belmont > Dracula (RoB) > Simon Belmont > Dracula (CV1) > Trevor Belmont > Dracula (CV3) > Leon Belmont > Dracula (LoI) >>> Death (LoI) >> Time Reaper => Low 2-C
Should say Shanoa using Dominus results in her dying, only reason she didn't in story was cause of deux ex machina stuff.
For her other things. Supernatural luck I think mostly just ties to her being more likely to score critical hits and item drops I think. Soul Manip ought to be similar to the Belmonts basically Shanoa just hits your soul directly with her attacks. I was told back with Simon vs Grovyle that the latter has a feat of resisting Soul Manip, not sure that will scale to Dusknoir however so I'll need a citation here to see if Dusknoir can scale to that.
Danmaku is basically just her flinging several meteors and magical arrows, considering she's a magic user by nature Shanoa tends to prefer ranged combat for the most part.
Shanoa should be pretty intelligent given she's listed as High, she was raised from birth pretty much to be a monster slayer and studied the art of glyphs and magic usage in order to combat Dracula and his minions for the day they should return.
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Dusknoir low diff. Power null, telekinesis, ice manip that can freeze souls
Valiant_Abyss
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That scaling chain is long af. how much is one >? Is it like, "I edged you out slightly in combat" or is it like "I kicked your but pretty hard with some effort"
Dusknoir put Groovyle in a spot in between 4 special crystals that exert electric energy that destroys one's soul, leaving their body an empty shell. The spot that Groovyle stepped in had the highest energy exertion and he resisted it for an extended period of time to the point where there was an entire conversation between him and Dusknoir. While Groovyle's entire body was cloaked in the electricity, Dusknoir pushed him out of the way (meaning he had to touch him and knowing the properties of electricity, he should've made contact with it but ended up unharmed).
I don't think Dusknoir shouldn't have too hard of a time dealing with that considering his intellect and the fact that he has long ranged attacks of his own.
Dusknoir should have his fair share of combat knowledge, training, and experience considering he's spent a very long time working for Dialga and attempting to stop Groovyle/The protagonist from changing the future out of extreme fear of his own erasure. But given the master strategist side of Dusknoir, I'd say it's pretty fair to give him the edge in intellect.
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Shanoa resists Dracula's powers which does include Power Null (see Curse Manip) fair on TK her LS is crap. That sounds like soul Manip which she resists
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Its a bit of both tbh. Its established within the lore that Dracula was more and more powerful each time he came back to life. To the point where Alucard sat down with people and they were like "Yeah we can't keep killing him cause he'll eventually be too powerful for us to deal with" hence why he was defeated and sealed for good in 1999 via a prolonged and prepared ritual after Julius killed him. Even then he just reincarnated as Soma Cruz. Regardless each protagonist managed to defeat him and hence scale above his iterations (Shanoa had to use Dominus to defeat that version of Dracula for good more due to his invulnerability than anything else, when she did she one shotted him)
Valiant_Abyss
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Hmmm. Shanoa seems to have a pretty solid AP advantage here. Primal Dialga is baseline low 2-C with its mere presence and Dusknoir downscales from being able to harm Primal Dialga, but Primal Dialga still kind of whooped Dusknoir in a one-on-one. Dusknoir was caught off guard but Primal Dialga kinda knocked him down and beat the shit out of em. At best Dusknoir was able to overpower the protagonist and their partner who were able to heavily wear down a much healthier Primal Dialga, but the beatdown from future Primal Dialga is kind of difficult to ignore.
The scaling chart sort of looks like this: (note that the later stage Primal Dialga is in, the more berserk and self preservational, but unhealthy he is)
Weakened Dusknoir, weakened Grovyle, weakened Celebi >>> Weakened (verge of death) late stage Primal Dialga
Rested late stage Primal Dialga >>> Mostly healthy Dusknoir >= Grovyle > Protagonist and partner >>> angry but off guard early stage Primal Dialga = Baseline Low 2-C with presence.
Shanoa does have notably higher AP here. While both their hax mostly cancels each other out, and Dusknoir's intelligence does give him an edge, the AP difference + danmaku and homing attack is pretty hard to ignore. I'll vote for Shanoa for now, though my vote can be swayed.
The scaling chart sort of looks like this: (note that the later stage Primal Dialga is in, the more berserk and self preservational, but unhealthy he is)
Weakened Dusknoir, weakened Grovyle, weakened Celebi >>> Weakened (verge of death) late stage Primal Dialga
Rested late stage Primal Dialga >>> Mostly healthy Dusknoir >= Grovyle > Protagonist and partner >>> angry but off guard early stage Primal Dialga = Baseline Low 2-C with presence.
Shanoa does have notably higher AP here. While both their hax mostly cancels each other out, and Dusknoir's intelligence does give him an edge, the AP difference + danmaku and homing attack is pretty hard to ignore. I'll vote for Shanoa for now, though my vote can be swayed.
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- Thread starter
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Not sure I should add this since tk is the only one shanoa doesn't resist
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TK might not really do a whole lot I guess, ragdolling is kinda moot
Valiant_Abyss
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Dusknoir doesn't lead with tk anyways. He might use it down the line because he is a very good and strategist who's aware of his own arsenal, but Shenoa could easily have him downed by then.
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Shanoa doesn't resist BFR so that can work
Valiant_Abyss
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Use his intellect to form a strategy to take victory, ragdoll with telekenesis, or BFR with time portals.
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Anyway chalk me down for Glyph Girl. Greater AP edge that can be amped, homing attacks to ensure she can connect, can reflect attacks and null Dusknoir via curses. Far higher stamina to outlast if need be. Its gonna be a messy fight and Shanoa is likely to come outta this battered and bruised among other things but I believe she can pull this off.
Valiant_Abyss
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Well he has 2 types of BFR. One being dimensional/spiritual BFR that his cannon counterpart has, but he's never been seen using, and the other being BFR with time travel portals which he's only attempted to do twice under specific orders. So not very likely, but it's still a wincon that he has, so this isn't a stomp.
Valiant_Abyss
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Weird.
I could've recalled Dusknoir creating one on at least one occasion, but I guess not. Regardless, he still has dimensional/spiritual BFR.
I could've recalled Dusknoir creating one on at least one occasion, but I guess not. Regardless, he still has dimensional/spiritual BFR.
Valiant_Abyss
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Not dragging people to other dimensions.
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Can shanoa resist ice manipulation that can freeze souls or concepts like dialga
Valiant_Abyss
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Stop bringing up abilities that aren't on profiles or haven't been approved on CRTs. Yes, ice type moves can hit ghost types. That's merely NPI, not some kind of special soul based ice manip. Ice manip has only affected Dialga in his avatar state, not as the embodiment of time. Please stop doing this.
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I don't think it needs to be stated directly on the profiles though, cuz its common knowledge that dusknoir can attack ghost types with ice? Like any pokemon?
Valiant_Abyss
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That's called non-physical-interaction. Not some kind of durability bypassing ice manip that ignores a body and attacks the soul directly.
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Ain't that spiritual ice? You telling me ice that can affect souls ain't spiritual?
Valiant_Abyss
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Did you click the link that I put in the message? The ability is called NPI. You know, the thing that lets you interact with intangible beings such as ghosts?
NPI =/= spirit based attacks
Being able to hit a ghost does not mean that when you hit a normal person, you'll be hitting their soul directly.
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Yes. Because that's how it is treated in Pokemon.
It's just standard ice manip, that can interact with spiritual entities.
NPI, that's what the ability is.
There is some spiritual based pokemon attacks, and there's even some abilities that can "freeze" opponents that are indeed spiritual in nature, but Dusknoir doesnt have em.
Even then, spirit based pokemon attacks have absolutely NOTHING to do with concepts. Thinking on it, i dont think there's EVER been a time where Dialga has been hit while in his noncorporal state.
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Dialga always is a conceptual being isn't he? Don't know why he doesn't have AE type 1 on the profile
Valiant_Abyss
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His physical avatar is not a conceptual being.
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Yes. But he isnt always noncorporal.
He can be, and we've seen him become a weird ass spatial mess before, but he still has a physical body 95% of the time. Though that isnt to say that actually hurting him or effecting him isnt impressive, it is impressive, it just isnt concept manip.
