Shalltear Bloodfallen vs Charizard

[Rocker1189]

Woah this got active again. But my notifications arent picking them up...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

You said ski. Not skin, body, muscles, bones and every other bit of the body designed to protect you.

Skin on its own is much less durable than an entire organ.

 

[Akreious]

Yes, I said skin. But my point was that external durability does NOT scale to internal durability. I can tank as much baseball hits as I want, but my heart imploding would kill me outright.

You said that Charizard could tank internal TK when in almost all of fiction, it's the complete opposite. Internal durability does not scale with External durability.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Durability of internal organs is never ridiculously below the durability of the external body though. Or do you think you could kill superman by tapping his exposed brain?

Charizard is at least High 6-C scaling to people who only need to be 1.3 times stronger to be Small Country level.

Shaltear is slightly less than half way into 6-C

Charizard is around 50 times stronger than her. Don't think that sounds like too much? She is 0.02 times as strong as him.

Do you really think that the internal organs (and note that she's trying to implode his entire body at once, not just specifying a single individually vulnerable organ like the heart) are so much weaker than Charizard as a whole that she can overcome a difference of probably over 50x times?

 

[Schnee_One]

Shalltear is halfway through 6C?

I thought she was Baseline.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

She's somewhere over 6.423x1019 joules, Island level starts at 1.79912x1019 joules and ends at 4.184x1020

 

[OneShotYourFave]

@monarch like its been said, internal damage ignores dura

 

[Belyompusct]

Why Shalltear's mind manipulation gettin ignored all over again? Also, I can't come up with a clue how Charizard will be able to handle [Mist Form], which is pretty much spatial intangibility at Shalltear's disposal.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@monarch like its been said, internal damage ignores dura

It doesn't though. Internal organs are slightly more vulnerable to damage than the body as a whole, but A) Shalter is still affecting the body as a whole with implode and B) She is at least 50 times weaker than him

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I can't come up with a clue how Charizard will be able to handle [Mist Form], which is pretty much spatial intangibility at Shalltear's disposal.

Mist form sounds a lot more like elemental intangibility

 

[Belyompusct]

I can't come up with a clue how Charizard will be able to handle [Mist Form], which is pretty much spatial intangibility at Shalltear's disposal.

Mist form sounds a lot more like elemental intangibility

In the novel, she warps her original body to the astral plane, while the false (physical plane) body got transmuted into a mist phenomenon. Something like that.

 

[Maraderchik]

I can't come up with a clue how Charizard will be able to handle [Mist Form], which is pretty much spatial intangibility at Shalltear's disposal.

Mist form sounds a lot more like elemental intangibility

Nah, it's spatial.

Shalltear sensed the mines and assumed her mist form to evade them as they flew toward her. This skill transmuted the body into mist, and it was quite a flavourful skill for vampires. However, it did not transform the body into the physical phenomenon called mist, but instead phased the body into the astral plane. Thus she could use it to completely avoid attacks in the physical world — the three explosions which resulted.

"Naive!"

After Ainz's shout, he followed up with a [Maximize Magic - Astral Smite]."

That spell could strike astral entities, and it found its mark on Shalltear's body, whose defense had been somewhat reduced after taking mist form.

My vote for Shalltear, because Charizard have no means to counter her Charm, Mist Form or hinder her maneuverability in any ways, like prevent teleportation or paralyse her (because Paralysis Invalid).

She can win this even with hit'n'run tactic, because Charizard haven't any Regenerationn ability.

And Implosion still a thing.

 

[Akreious]

@monarch like its been said, internal damage ignores dura

It doesn't though. Internal organs are slightly more vulnerable to damage than the body as a whole, but A) Shalter is still affecting the body as a whole with implode and B) She is at least 50 times weaker than him

Dude, stop. Internal durability does NOT scale with external durability, period. It doesn't matter if I can tank attacks 50x stronger than other people, if my guts implode on itself, I'm dead even if the force is 50x weaker than it would be normally. Ever heard of internal hemorrhaging? A small wound inside could kill someone in mere minutes if left untreated.

And you seem to be viewing this lens of "Organs are as durable as the rest of you" and that he could simply tank everything when it's the exact opposite; you have to prove that Charizard's lungs and organs have the same durability as his external durability, not the other way around. I'll say it once and I'll say it again; Internal Durability does NOT scale with External Durability no matter what you think and it has to be proven with feats.

And even if Charizard is capable of tanking internal attacks via scaling from external durability, a crapton of internal micro-damage at any major veins would cause him to eventually pop open like a blood sprinkler as we seem to be applying real life physics to Pokemon now.

 

[Rocker1189]

So

Shalltear is now at 4 votes

to Charizards 1.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Your internal durability is not 50 times weaker than your external durability. Characters do not have 8-C skin and 9-A everything else.

Implode does not attack internal organs, it causes the body to collapse on itself. Which still requires the force to affect the entire body, internal and external, and make it collapse in on itself.

 

[Maraderchik]

There such a problem just collapse target brain (or another part of it's body) instead of whole body? I didn't think so.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If implode was simply a technique than an independent spell working by Yggdrasil game mechanics, I might agree.

But implode is a specific spell with the specific function of "cause the targets body to collapse inwards". Not "cause a specific part of the target's body to collapse inwards". She can only target the entire body, not a specific organ

 

[Maraderchik]

>spell working by Yggdrasil game mechanics

Honestly i can't completely agree with this. Just think about Ainz TGOALD and his confusion about how it's working in the NW.(but this kinda speculative, because we didn't see how exactly every single spells work now and how they work in Yggdrasil).

 

[Belyompusct]

In any case, i doubt that implosion-thing contains enough energy to affect someone like Charizard.

Shalltear utilized this spell only once, on a dozen non-named fodders, under influence of which their bodies puffed up like rubber balls and collapsed. End. Therefore, i assume that the spell itself is not so strong, because its impact is spread right away to a multiple targets. It is unlikely that it will work 1v1 on someone equal or superior to her durability-wise.

 

[Maraderchik]

Well, my point in implosion topic is that, she can use it on particular part of body. I didn't say she can collapse whole Charizard.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

And my point is that she cant use it on a particular part of the body. The spell works on the whole body.

 

[Akreious]

Why wouldn't implode work on a specific part of the body? And even then, wouldn't affecting the entire body mean the same thing since "Entire Body" also encompasses the brain? At this point, we're literally arguing semantics.

"Therefore, i assume that the spell itself is not so strong, because its impact is spread right away to a multiple targets. It is unlikely that it will work 1v1 on someone equal or superior to her durability-wise."

Please show me a description where durability somehow negates implosion with the game mechanics, not a "I assume". I'll seriously wait.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Because that is literally not how the spell works?

• Implosion: 10th tier magic. Causes the target to collapse or burst inward.

Because we're talking about a force pushing inwards on the entire body vs a force pushing inwards on individual organs. Of course the body's durability as a whole is going to be what matters rather than the durability of a single organ.

 

[Akreious]

No offence, but that's literally ******** on so many levels. Specific parts of me is going to tank a weaker force fine like my bones or spleen and such, but sensitive organs such as the brain, spine, intestines, etc. will be horribly affected. You're literally saying that my jugular vein is as durable as say, my femur bone.


You have to PROVE that Charizard's internal organs are equal to his normal durability. Not the other way around. What you THINK is not what matters, it's the fact that we treat internal durability as a separate entity from External Durability on here. If you want to argue against this, make a thread about it.

 

[Belyompusct]

@Akreious

Imagine spherical gravitational collapse. Implosion term is just an energy manipulation with internal/external pressure in 60/40 proportions (just an example, internal is always dominant in this case) that deforms (imploding) body from within.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Akreious, you're not even reading my arguments at this point apparently.

 

[OneShotYourFave]

Akreious is right. all Shalltear would need to do is cause something like advanced heart arrhythmia, or disrupt bloodflow and charizard dies.

Again, fiction always shows your durability as your durability on the outside. not on the inside. two completely different things and that is the way they are treated. Too my knowledge this is the way it is treated on every versus battle site i've been on. I don't think VsB is the exception.

 

[Maraderchik]

• Implosion: 10th tier magic. Causes the target to collapse or burst inward.

What can stop her from targeting particular part of the body? For example eye or paw.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Because it's only ever been shown to target an entire person, never a single internal organ, and just about every time "target" is mentioned in an Overlord offensive spell, it is referring to the person as a whole, not their internal organs.

 

[Maraderchik]

Because almost all of them make external damage if you exclude instant death spells.

Edit: Thinks about this more, that's make implosion utterly garbage in any kind of battle because 6-C AP and durability pretty much the same, and while you can (i'm pretty sure you can) significantly damage any high level Player 6-C with this spell, you can't do shit with ANYTHING in the battle thread.

And that's very confusing.

 

[Belyompusct]

Anyway, Shalltear wins via mindhax and intangibility.

It's better to end nowhere resulting discussion about irrelevant options.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I mean, Shaltear does probably win

It's just sure as hell not going to be through imploding him.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Edit: Thinks about this more, that's make implosion utterly garbage in any kind of battle because 6-C AP and durability pretty much the same, and while you can (i'm pretty sure you can) significantly damage any high level Player 6-C with this spell, you can't do shit with ANYTHING in the battle thread.

And that's very confusing.

Uhh, no?

It's not working here because Char is 50x stronger than her.

Against someone with comparable AP/Dura it would be another way of damaging them. Not oneshoting, but it would def do something.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

>Destroying someone from the inside is not durability negation.

Pretty sure we have long accepted it as such. From what I've seen each time an ability like this is used, it is counted as Durability Negation. You're gonna have to make a thread on that one.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

A) Implosion is not destroying someone from the inside

B) Certainly not true durability negation. Internal organs might be less durable, but they would still be in the same range. Or do you think you could kill superman by tapping his brain?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

B) From what I've heard from Sera and other users, along with how we've long treated such a thing, it is. And yes, I do when he's not a living universe. Or if he has the regen to comeback from such a thing.

 

[Maraderchik]

Uhh, no?

It's not working here because Char is 50x stronger than her.

Against someone with comparable AP/Dura it would be another way of damaging them. Not oneshoting, but it would def do something.

So... where the line between oneshot, damaging, and completely immune to this?

Btw, i'm still thinking she can freely target any part of opponent body.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

5 times advantage in dura gives you overall immunity to attacks exept a very few places.

10 times plain out makes you immune to them unless hax is involved

 

[Rocker1189]

Shalltear 5 votes.

Charizard still 1.

 

[Akreious]

5 times advantage in dura gives you overall immunity to attacks exept a very few places.
10 times plain out makes you immune to them unless hax is involved

I don't think that logic applies to durability of your internal organs...?

Like, If you put me inside of a Blue Whale and tell me to **** up its organs, I can probably do it. The organs are vulnerable enough for me to **** them up despite the durability to ap difference being AT LEAST 56.5x (From 10-B to 9-B). However, if you tell me to go into a straight fight with the Whale, I'm probably dead.