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first two lines of yours do not make up a coherent argument
third line wasaddressed by the very blog itself and on the first page. if you keep bringing it up i consider the issue resolved and stop responding to your nonsense
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Shadow Slave Low 1-A upgrade
- Thread starter Seraphor12
- Start date
- Status
third line wasaddressed by the very blog itself and on the first page. if you keep bringing it up i consider the issue resolved and stop responding to your nonsense
LOTM_Historian
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Yeah, the universe being EXPLICITLY described as a 'cage built to contain the Void' is a clear anti-feat for L1-A Shadow Slave.
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nothing you said adressed my explanation, you already jumped and abandoned 3 different arguments that i answered. i am frankly not interested in debating if you keep bringing up strawmans and non-sequiturs
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You mean the "cage" that was only depicted on the murals by people who only had a imperfect telling of the real events? That then it literally containing and surrounding the Void was proven to be wrong as the seal was that the Flame is suppose to be completely isolated from the Void? If the Void is contained by the Flame then it participates under the Flame thus not being isolated from it. Do you not see the issue with that?
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""cage" that was only depicted on the murals by people who only had a imperfect telling of the real events" This is sunny extrapolation from, a conversation with a cursed tyrant from ancient times; also one that made deals with Weaver.
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You mean the cursed tyrant who was intentionally giving a deceptive telling of events (truth mixed with lies, framed in a way to make them despair)? Lmfao.
Also what about the Void remaining eternal and everchanging despite those things supposedly being sealed by absolute laws?
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keep in mind i literally exposed his contradiction 80 replies ago and he ignored that. the argument is disingenious and frankly i might ask an admin to regulate the clogging for not only arguments get regirgutated (the debunked ones too) but also information misrepresented
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I mean isn't Flame literally inside of it? It can't seal Void wholly (it doesn't even have boundaries). It just separates Flame from Void which sealing Void in the sense you're saying won't result like (since Flame isn't outside of it or something).
And none of you examples about defying laws is valid. Sunny "resisted" law of Death? Bro literally died, just tricked the process, but died.
Sovereigns can cut concepts? Like, yeah? What's wrong with that? How's that even related to absolute laws in the first place? So if they have CM, they need to defy laws in conceptual level???
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Disagreeing with book statements is wild with a author like g3 whose writing has never directing statement something not true. The so-called deceptive in that he was talking with him to lower sunny' guard, telling sunny a lie would and could lower his chances of killing sunny.
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They're purposely not putting us in the disagree, lol.
Disagree so far: Sonoftanavast9, LOTM_Historian, Super Nova, Solid
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none of our plebeian blue name votes count
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Supernova literally said he is neutral and "Possibly L-1A" is fine
but i understand it is hard for you not to lie in every message dw
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not wrong tho
LOTM_Historian
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I went back and reviewed everything, you never clearly explained how it's contradictory, and didn't addressed this specific scan. Frankly, you're the one being disingenuous, and it's coming across as disrespectful.
You can't just keep threatening to call the admins every time someone raises a legitimate point.
The way you’re presenting things now makes it seem like I’m the only one disagreeing with this CRT, which is completely misleading, there are several others who share the same concerns.
My advice is just to remove this agree or disagree count on the CRT and only count admins to not mislead anyone.
Also, it's pretty telling how my question about who actually scales to the supposed L1-A void keeps getting ignored. That question alone would expose several major anti-feats tied to this tiering.
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Then you didnt think far enough. You asserted that idea of a cage as combined mixture of desire, nothingness(for which you still didnt bring scans btw) and laws and then you asserted that flame was seperated. I pointed out how cage is flame itself and that it results in contradictory statement as you both asserting that flame remained and was removed at the same time.
Coming across as disrespecful?
Well let me count: you misrepresneted information here, here, here, here, here... almost at any ocasion you strawmanned me such as the example where i explained that relationship between cursed and concepts was used to explain physics-breaking feat and you assumed that i said noone has CM, all the while accussing of lying too.
Don't worry, unlike you, i actually have no need to call up someone from Discord like Supernova who didn't even read SS, or that other dude, and fed them scans to help your argument because you cannot support it on your own
The 'several other people' are dude you called from your discord server, by any chance? We will not mislead by adding people you asked to disagree with CRT
It wouldnt because noone scales to the void
Verezen
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Frankly its clear you are blatantly misrepresenting scans and information, altering context, or pretending to be ignorant of the narrative. Solid also clearly has zero clue what he’s talking about to the point I question whether he even read the novel. “Dream Realm can be seen as Dream God’s dream” is all I needed to see to arrive at that judgement (because it is something that is blatantly negated in novel itself). Supernova has some relevant points but ultimately he has not read the novel and is incapable of making a true judgement, his viewpoint is heavily skewed by you.
Regardless this is dragging too much and has become too heated. I think its best to leave it for the vsb mods now. If they ask for more proof or elaboration both sides can present theres, but with the intellectual dishonesty you are showing, its clear there won’t be any good from a debate. Shadow Slave is not worth getting this heated over
LOTM_Historian
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I know for a FACT you guys know exactly what scans I am referring to but refuse to bring it up on this CRT. But here are a few:
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Damning evidence, there is a lot more than this. But you guys just choose to ignore it to try to trick VSBW staff members into passing this CRT.
Can you actually explain how anything I said is misinformation? You keep accusing me of strawmanning or misrepresenting things, but you're still not addressing any of my actual points. I'm sharing my perspective because, believe it or not, there isn’t just one way to view this. Dismissing that with biased framing is unfair and intellectually lazy...
What?
I never even interacted with Supernova during that argument, I was asleep for most of it... He chose to join the conversation entirely on his own.“Fed him scans”? I literally just asked him some questions on SS, and he independently decided to come here and disagree. This is blatant misinformation, incredibly disrespectful, and borderline report-worthy. It’s honestly disgusting to see someone try to discredit not only my arguments but also others' perspectives in such a dishonest way.
Wow, imagine the audacity of me talking to one other person who's actually read Shadow Slave, meanwhile, you’re all actively debating with him on Discord (in my discord server no less, THE AUDACITY TO CLAIM THIS). How am I the one being called out for asking him something?
Okay make this clear on the CRT as well.
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1)none of your scans prove anything because the entire and whole debunk of your scans is based on the recontext in newest chapters. just ctrl+f word cage or existence and throw it here proves nothing, and the fact that you refuse to actually reconcile those parts is enoughI know for a FACT you guys know exactly what scans I am referring to but refuse to bring it up on this CRT. But here are a few:
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Gyazo
Damning evidence, there is a lot more than this. But you guys just choose to ignore it to try to trick VSBW staff members into passing this CRT.
Can you actually explain how anything I said is misinformation? You keep accusing me of strawmanning or misrepresenting things, but you're still not addressing any of my actual points. I'm sharing my perspective because, believe it or not, there isn’t just one way to view this. Dismissing that with biased framing is unfair and intellectually lazy...
What?
“Fed him scans”? I literally just asked him some questions on SS, and he independently decided to come here and disagree. This is blatant misinformation, incredibly disrespectful, and borderline report-worthy. It’s honestly disgusting to see someone try to discredit not only my arguments but also others' perspectives in such a dishonest way.
Wow, imagine the audacity of me talking to one other person who's actually read Shadow Slave, meanwhile, you’re all actively debating with him on Discord (in my discord server no less, THE AUDACITY TO CLAIM THIS). How am I the one being called out for asking him something?
Okay make this clear on the CRT as well.
2)i extensively explained how you misrepresented what i said...even in the message your replying to. and you still blatanly ignoring it
3)why are you asking questions on SS someone who didnd read it????he himself says he doesnt have full context and then you just do the ad hom
4)you are being called out for asking to present certain opinion, none of us here asked others to come on and agree with a thread
LOTM_Historian
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Wow, what an amazing argument. There is ONE SCAN that YOU PURPOSELY decide to interpret in a way that supports your argument, while it can also mean the opposite. LEGIT, EVERYTHING else we know about The Void in this entire book goes against you.
I can say the exact same thing.
Solid did read SS...
Do you have proof of me asking anyone to disagree? Because this is a clear lie... Here is the actual dms, I legit asked him on how it was sealed to make sure I wasn't in the wrong.
So? You guys are the ones who made this thread to begin with.
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At this point we beg to differ and stop. It's probably best for all parties involved in this specific argument to drop it since it's not gonna go anywhere and agree to disagree.
Verezen
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I really don’t like insulting people too much but this is just incredible.
That dm from Solid proves once more this guy hasn’t read Shadow Slave “they sealed the Void with the bodies of the dead daemons and gods” tf does that mean? Are you saying the realms themselves are seals on the Void? Based on what… blatant misrepresentation of feats. Weaver used the CORES not corpses, of the Gods and Daemons to weave the SPELL which he used to put Dream God (and presumably other void beings) to sleep. Sunny himself says it was on Dream God and not the spell.
Also ALL the scans you used are statements from an unreliable narrator, while the newer chapter Sunny is definitely far more reliable than his old self, and we are also told the spell isn’t reliable. So legit what we have trumps all tbe evidence you present because those were the conjectures of an unreliable narrator who was acting on limited information. You don’t seem to understand this fact (or rather you do but are pretending to not)
So yeah, using debunked scans (by the verse itself, not us) as well as asking 2 people who haven’t read Shadow Slave for their opinion on it is incredible scaling.
I know you are not this bad at scaling, so lets just stop being disingenuous here. You have yet to validate any argument you presented, let alone show how that is against Low 1A. You are misrepresenting scans, getting support from people who are not knowledgeable on the verse, and are (I am certain because I consider you intelligent and not a ******) purposefully ignoring the narrative presented by the story itself. So please, stop bogging down this CRT with nonsense. Anyone who reads through this can tell how bad it is. I mean you literally equated CM type 3 by Sovereigns to then say “they can definitely use CM on the absolute laws” even though we are told NOTHING (as in the word, not the existence in the verse) can achieve that.
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btw I feel like your being constantly disingenuous, your ignoring points and calling them "bad" in some sort of way without disproving them. I'll summarize them below in hopes you'll disprove them without skipping points.
Weaver as a Divine being, was able to create a seal(nightmare spell) for a higher being(forgotten god), that was used as a medium to seal the void from the flame(reality.) The Forgotten god was is the only being able to penetrate reality (the void has never been shown to, nor has there been any conclusive evidence it can.)
The void in nature is corrosive, it has been shown that even knowledge can spread its corruption. So the flame existing in it of itself is against the voids nature, thus the seal which the void is trying to enter; that was sealed by the 7 gods. Goes against its whole nature...This is constantly show in the book, via how corruption works...
This isnt a point what are you talking about. He didnt claim negation? The laws of Space-Time is a absolute law in reality(these Concepts are created by the gods, during their war), but are not apparent in the void. (as the void is Void is the source of everything and it is a dark abyss, its nature is boundless, eternal, endless, everlasting, and everchanging)
Historian's whole point was that these concepts arent universal concepts since you are able to affect them locally.
Lastly The universes cages the void. This is massive statement, big anti-feat.
""cage" that was only depicted on the murals by people who only had a imperfect telling of the real events" This is sunny extrapolation from, a conversation with a cursed tyrant from ancient times; also one that made deals with Weaver.
This was poorly explained by me so I will rephrase. The void is the origin point, it is the initial 'thing' that was sealed by the gods(void being that were born from the flame) using desire the gods sealed the void with the universe(its 7 respective realms.) Using this the seal is maintained with the desire of the beings inside this universe. With the forgotten god also being sealed by the nightmare spell.
LOTM_Historian
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Oh, so a single scan that needs to be interpreted in multiple conflicting ways is somehow more reliable than the entire book? And you're dismissing all of my evidence as mere "conjecture" even though interpreting mystery and lore is exactly how these kinds of stories are meant to be explored. If you're going to call it "unreliable," then explain how it's unreliable. Because just saying it doesn't make it so.
The only person I asked was Solid... Supernova can argue by himself, he doesn't need me.
Literally none of what you said addressed any of my points... Your entire argument is just "you are disingenuous."
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Just to be clear.
This does in no way disqualify them being type 2 or even generic untiered type 1 concepts. The absolute laws explicitly govern all of existence and are even called universal laws. Universal meaning having an all encompassing scope..?
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Currently my stance is more in favor of low 1-A but I'd prefer this thread be closed until more information or elaboration comes since it kinda was prematurely made. Then we'll see if something makes or breaks the supports interpretation. Since it quite literally cannot be ignored by story as the Void is the most important thing in the story and will be talked about eventually.
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Istg SS fan will not read their own novels,
"Which meant that all the other Divine Realms, like Godgrave and Stormsea, were as well. …And the waking world, too. Gods were vast, after all. Vast enough to encompass entire worlds within them, it seemed. But gods were also dead. The Dream Realm, the realm of the Forgotten God, was slowly consuming all the rest."
Verezen
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1. Yes. That single scan (repeated 4 times by 4 different narrator’sOh, so a single scan that needs to be interpreted in multiple conflicting ways is somehow more reliable than the entire book? And you're dismissing all of my evidence as mere "conjecture" even though interpreting mystery and lore is exactly how these kinds of stories are meant to be explored. If you're going to call it "unreliable," then explain how it's unreliable. Because just saying it doesn't make it so.
The only person I asked was Solid... Supernova can argue by himself, he doesn't need me.
Literally none of what you said addressed any of my points... Your entire argument is just "you are disingenuous."
) is FAR more reliable than the older statements, especially cause it is by the same main character and friends who are all far more knowledgeable now. One can also analyze authorial intent to see how G3 repeating this same explanation 4 times in different ways shows he is hammering it in that THIS is our answer. Before our characters were merely stumbling in the dark, speculating with what clues they had. Ofc their guesses and conjectures can be wrong. Ofc this one could also be, but this one is just much more reliable than the previous ones.2. The other have alr addressed how you have misrepresented things, I don’t need to repeat them and clog this up even further. And yes, You are being disingenuous, and rather openly. As for proving your scans are unreliable, the very fact they happen earlier than the book that this one (making them less credible) and the speculations contained within them are from less knowledgeable characters, is enough.
Verezen
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Did you even read what you yourself sent? You replied to me making fun of you saying Dream God’s dream is the dream realm. And you responded by quoting a passage wherw its stated the Gods encompassed worlds within them and that the Forgotten God (Dream God for anyone who doesn’t know SS) is consuming them. What does this do to prove your point exactly? There actually is a scan where its said reality is contained by Dream God’s dream (Outerversal Dream God
) but that has been debunked by the verse itself (both by things that are his dream affecting him, and the fact that it was clarified that he merely dreams of the Void and its corruption, manifesting that corruption into reality, ie Dream God just has subjective reality. Reality is not LITERALLY within his dream.)Anyway I’ve been too toxic on this thread so I apologize but this level of willful ignorance from both of you is insane.
LOTM_Historian
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Please send all the relevant scans and clearly explain how they counter the points I've made. The scans I'm referencing are as recent as Chapter 2349, and I've thoroughly read the latest chapters as well as your entire blog. So far, nothing you've presented has actually disproven any of my arguments.1. Yes. That single scan (repeated 4 times by 4 different narrator’s
2. The other have alr addressed how you have misrepresented things, I don’t need to repeat them and clog this up even further. And yes, You are being disingenuous, and rather openly. As for proving your scans are unreliable, the very fact they happen earlier than the book that this one (making them less credible) and the speculations contained within them are from less knowledgeable characters, is enough.
It’s best to pause this CRT for now and revisit it once we have a concrete scene showing a character clearly above continental level. At this point, we’re relying on vague lore and speculation. With more definitive material likely coming in the next few months to year, it makes more sense to wait for clearer evidence.
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Nephis has a blatant multi-continental feat GG EZ no re.
LOTM_Historian
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Rakih_Elyan
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Ngl, I was lost in Shadow Slave's earlier chapters.
Like, wtf is happening in the plot. Sunny just ******* around like a goddamns chicken.
Anyways, agree.
Like, wtf is happening in the plot. Sunny just ******* around like a goddamns chicken.
Anyways, agree.
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Wait what. Why was this thread reopened?
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OP got the thread closed here because he wanted to wait for more information to come in the novel
https://vsbattles.com/threads/all-purpose-request-thread-new-forum.107534/post-7187063 and looking through his message history he never once asked for it to be reopened so idk what happened.
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