Shadow Slave Revision: Low 1-C Upgrade + Information Type 2

[Seraphor12]

This is about Low 1-C and Information Manipulation in Shadow Slave verse. This is the blog which explains Low 1-C argument in detail and below is a summary of it.

Spell's innerworking

vsbattles.fandom.com

Spoiler: Low 1-C

Terminology:​

Reality: It is the universe which includes realms like war realm and dream realm which is accepted as 2-C in last CRT
Dream: Dream refers to nightmares. In ss nightmares refers to an entirely different world where humans go and have to solve a conflict to rank up.
Spell: It is a system like thing which sends peoples from reality to nightmares and helps them in ranking up. It's innerworkings exists in a space between reality and dream (in this place it sends peoples also where they rank up and gets appraisal from it.) and it is like several constellations.

Spell's innerworkings space is described as the Space Between Dream and Reality. And the spell is made from the strings of fate. These strings of fate are described as connecting all of the existence including every being, object, thought, concept, dream, nightmare, and universe that has existed, exists, or will exist. So, Strings of Fate “connect everything in existence” and “all of the universe as it had existed, was existing, and was going to exist.” Which means it has uncountably infinite numbers of the entire universe connected within it. These strings of fate extends into every direction as well into past present and future. This implies that there is infinite distance in every direction. Even seeing the infinitesimal part of it's existence is enough to derive any lower dimensional being mad. Which suggests that it is infinitely above lower dimensional things. This space mentioned above is also called as endless which indicates that it's size is infinite. In last CRT it was accepted that the concept of space is innately connected with the concept of infinity which should make the realms in reality to be potentially infinite in size.

According to tiering system FAQ:

“One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."

"Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status.”

• This “Space Between Dream and Reality” exists outside all realms in “Reality” and the entirety of “Dream". This places it beyond the 4D spacetime continuums. It's also similar to brane cosmology where 4D spacetime is a brane inside a higher dimensional “bulk” (hyperspace/subspace).
• Strings of fate are described as “stretching infinitely into every direction” (spatial) and “into the past, present, and future” (temporal). This implies each direction being an infinite real number line and so there is infinite distance in every direction.
• Strings of Fate connect everything in existence including temporal axis(past/present/future.)
• The text explicitly says even an infinitesimal fraction of its informational content instantly destroys any living being except possibly a god. Given its embedding all of time and existence, this destruction should be the result of an infinite gap.
• The last CRT already accepted the “Reality” as potentially infinite in size. The “Space Between Dream and Reality” exists above this layer and is directly connected to the concept of infinity in-verse.

This is the blog for more better explanation on it

Spell's innerworking

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, will this space be low 1-C? As well those strings of fate and spell?

And for information:

Spoiler: Information

And for information manipulation type 2

Names have power, Rain. A quite literal power — you will learn about it while studying Shaping — but a more obscure power, as well. A True Name is an anchor of one's self, and knowing yourself is the first step of walking the Path of Ascension.

After Lost from Light managed to remember his name, it acted as an irresistible anchor that slowly pulled other things from the darkness of oblivion that shrouded his true self. Not actual memories, but far more useful things… skills, fragments of knowledge, insights, patterns of thought…
Just like a body had a memory of its own, a soul had one as well. Knowing one's name, the true name, was a key to unlocking it.

Those with True Names were connected to the mystical side of the world much closer, would be influenced by the hidden powers of the world much more... and be able to exert greater influence in turn.

"Before Hope invented writing, the most common type of sorcery used by mortals, even more blindly, was the Sorcery of Names. You see, Sunless, everything that exists has a name. In fact, you might even say that a thing only starts to exist after it is given a name. A flower is just a flower, one among many, until you call it a rose. Then, roses are suddenly different from all the other flowers, and so, they come to exist."

Sunny frowned, not sure that he understood what the hell Noctis was talking about. Wouldn't roses exist even if they were not called roses? Well… in a sense, they wouldn't? Flowers that looked like roses would, but they would not be called roses, and so, there would not be roses…

'How confusing…'

The sorcerer, meanwhile, ignored his befuddlement and continued:

"However, not all names are equal. Some are simply given and aren't worth much, while others have to be earned… and those names, the true names of things, hold power over them. Names are a powerful thing, Sunless… and so, a long time ago, people who learned those names could share in that power. However, their authority was obscure and fleeting, since it was only invoked when someone said the names aloud… and saying them with a mortal mouth was not an easy feat."

He suddenly smiled.
"But that was what made Hope's invention so ingenious, you see! Once writing appeared, one with enough knowledge could connect the names to material objects, granting the invocation permanence. Of course, it is not that simple… in fact, knowing the names of things and how to shape them into songs and phrases is incredibly hard, because with the knowledge of names comes the knowledge of everything."

Having studied Shaping for a while now, Rain had come to believe that there was one true language out there, woven into the very fabric of existence, a language where every word was a True Name.
The language of the gods.
Unlike the human languages, which had been invented, this one was inherent to reality, both shaped by the world and shaping the world. Therefore, speaking the words of that language was no different from reshaping the world. That was what Shapers did.
By channeling True Names and assembling them into Verses, they could change the world in accordance with their will. However, not just anyone could become a Shaper.
The knowledge of True Names was esoteric and lost. Anyone could learn the True Names as long as they found one, though, and yet, very few could actually speak them. After all, these Names were never meant to be spoken by a human. They were meant to be spoken by the gods.
Most people simply did not have the talent to master the True Names, but rare individuals like Rain and Lady Nephis could, to a degree. Still, it wasn't easy.

Names are tied directly to existence and identity. A True Name acts as an anchor for the soul, allowing one to recover lost skills, knowledge, and memories. Everything that exists has a name, and in a sense it only begins to truly exist once it is named. Ordinary names are weak, but True Names hold power over the thing they belong to. In shaping sorcery, it works by invoking the one true language woven into reality itself, where every word is a True Name. Speaking this language reshapes the world, since it is the same language the gods use. By channeling and assembling True Names into verses, Shapers can alter reality. Mortals normally cannot handle this knowledge, since True Names were meant for gods, but rare individuals with talent can partially wield them. Writing made this even more effective, since it allowed Names to be permanently anchored to objects. Even concepts have true names as it is shown that Nephis can learn the true names of Fire, Destruction which are type 2 concepts. So, does this qualify for type 1 or 2?

Agree: @FinePoint, @Celestial_Pegasus, @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Floxy178]

You took Reality as 4D but shouldn't Reality itself be Low 1-C in the first place? It's capable of containing many seperate space-times(which are infinite in size, both spatially and temporally), and since every direction should be infinite in Reality, 5th axis will also be infinite.

With that, space between Reality and Dream should be 6D (if time exists there, but Fate exists so maybe it'll help?). This place is also called different plane of existence where souls, soul cores and weaves inhabit.

 

[Seraphor12]

You took Reality as 4D but shouldn't Reality itself be Low 1-C in the first place? It's capable of containing many seperate space-times(which are infinite in size, both spatially and temporally), and since every direction should be infinite in Reality, 5th axis will also be infinite.

With that, space between Reality and Dream should be 6D (if time exists there, but Fate exists so maybe it'll help?). This place is also called different plane of existence where souls, soul cores and weaves inhabit.

I think it would need to be shown that reality itself has a 5th axis.

 

[Floxy178]

I think it would need to be shown that reality itself has a 5th axis.

You took Reality as 4D but shouldn't Reality itself be Low 1-C in the first place? It's capable of containing many seperate space-times(which are infinite in size, both spatially and temporally), and since every direction should be infinite in Reality, 5th axis will also be infinite.

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Eh, seems kinda vague, ill stay neutral on this. Waiting on others to give their own input.

 

[Seraphor12]

It's capable of containing many seperate space-times

@Floxy178 I didn't ignore it, and yeah it can contain multiple separate space time continuums, but I think it needs to be shown that there is a sub-space between those realms. So that's why I didn't included that as it is just a possibility for now.

 

[Floxy178]

@Floxy178 I didn't ignore it, and yeah it can contain multiple separate space time continuums, but I think it needs to be shown that there is a sub-space between those realms. So that's why I didn't included that as it is just a possibility for now.

It's not something needed to be shown though.

 

[SuperNova55555]

You took Reality as 4D but shouldn't Reality itself be Low 1-C in the first place? It's capable of containing many seperate space-times(which are infinite in size, both spatially and temporally), and since every direction should be infinite in Reality, 5th axis will also be infinite.

I’ll give my thoughts on this CRT later but this is not Low 1-C; simply containing multiple space-times shouldn’t be a qualifier for a higher tier if you can’t prove that Reality is uncountably larger than all the other space-times. (An anti-feat to this would be if the “space-times” are more than infinitesimal in comparison to Reality)

 

[Seraphor12]

I’ll give my thoughts on this CRT later but this is not Low 1-C; simply containing multiple space-times shouldn’t be a qualifier for a higher tier if you can’t prove that Reality is uncountably larger than all the other space-times. (An anti-feat to this would be if the “space-times” are more than infinitesimal in comparison to Reality)

Please read the blog, I never said it is Low 1-C just because it contains multiple space times and stuff like that. That was floxy's argument

 

[SuperNova55555]

Please read the blog, I never said it is Low 1-C just because it contains multiple space times and stuff like that. That was floxy's argument

Yes, Im responding to Floxy’s argument; not yours.

 

[Floxy178]

I’ll give my thoughts on this CRT later but this is not Low 1-C; simply containing multiple space-times shouldn’t be a qualifier for a higher tier if you can’t prove that Reality is uncountably larger than all the other space-times. (An anti-feat to this would be if the “space-times” are more than infinitesimal in comparison to Reality)

You can't contain multiple infinite sized 4D Realms without 5th axis. I didn't say that it qualities with this alone, because we also have context for every direction being infinite.

Please read the blog, I never said it is Low 1-C just because it contains multiple space times and stuff like that. That was floxy's argument

That's a reply to me.

 

[SuperNova55555]

You can't contain multiple infinite sized 4D Realms without 5th axis.

Not really, no. Any arbitrary collection of things is not higher dimensional.

This is also true with uncountably infinite structures; look at the Cantor Set, it is composed of an Aleph 1 amount of points and is still completely 0-dimensional.

Higher dimensional tiers are more concerned with ontology than simply size—it’s why a lot of “hyper-time” bs is founded on stuff like time travel.

 

[Floxy178]

Not really, no. Any arbitrary collection of things is not higher dimensional

True mathematically. If I take two copies of R^4 and put them in a set , I don’t magically get a 5D space. It’s just a set with two elements.

But physically containing is different.
If you want a construct that contains both while still treating them as extended physical realms, then you need to distinguish them within a single framework. That framework requires an extra axis. Otherwise they'll overlap/coexist.

This is also true with uncountably infinite structures; look at the Cantor Set, it is composed of an Aleph 1 amount of points and is still completely 0-dimensional.

Kinda confused how cardinality is relevant to the topic. My point doesn't rely on uncountable infinite difference anyway. Additional 5th axis should be infinite as I said, so "hypothetically we can make uncountable infinite number of those 4D and still not reach Low 1-C or 5D" is completely irrelevant.

 

[Seraphor12]

guys can you argue about mathematics stuff in your msg walls and when you reach to a conclusion then give a summary here.

 

[SuperNova55555]

True mathematically. If I take two copies of R^4 and put them in a set , I don’t magically get a 5D space. It’s just a set with two elements.

But physically containing is different.
If you want a construct that contains both while still treating them as extended physical realms, then you need to distinguish them within a single framework. That framework requires an extra axis. Otherwise they'll overlap/coexist.

Kinda confused how cardinality is relevant to the topic. My point doesn't rely on uncountable infinite difference anyway. Additional 5th axis should be infinite as I said, so "hypothetically we can make uncountable infinite number of those 4D and still not reach Low 1-C or 5D" is completely irrelevant.

The point is that there is no need for an additional axis, since structures can still be contained within a structure of the same dimensionality—a structure doesn’t simply have 2 temporal dimensions because it contains multiple timelines within it.

The Cantor Set is to show that you can have a structure of the same size as another structure and still have different dimensionality. (I.e a set with multiple timelines does not need to be mapped out in an additional dimension.)

 

[Floxy178]

The point is that there is no need for an additional axis, since structures can still be contained within a structure of the same dimensionality—a structure doesn’t simply have 2 temporal dimensions because it contains multiple timelines within it.

If structures are infinite in size, then no it's impossible. Also I didn't say anything about 2 temporal dimensions?

The Cantor Set is to show that you can have a structure of the same size as another structure and still have different dimensionality. (I.e a set with multiple timelines does not need to be mapped out in an additional dimension.)

Not same size, but same cardinality. They're different.

 

[SuperNova55555]

If structures are infinite in size, then no it's impossible. Also I didn't say anything about 2 temporal dimensions?

Not same size, but same cardinality. They're different.

I never said you said anything about timelines; that was simply an analogy.

And no, “infinity” means nothing here: simply having multiple “infinite lines” doesn’t mean the overall structure extends into the second dimension; all of them are equally infinitesimal to the 2D plane the same way the Cantor Set is in relation to a line (even though it contains an uncountably large amount of points)

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with possibly Low 1-C

 

[SuperNova55555]

I never said you said anything about timelines; that was simply an analogy.

And no, “infinity” means nothing here: simply having multiple “infinite lines” doesn’t mean the overall structure extends into the second dimension; all of them are equally infinitesimal to the 2D plane the same way the Cantor Set is in relation to a line (even though it contains an uncountably large amount of points)

Actually, let’s leave this discussion for another CRT, since it isn’t actually being proposed in the OP and it only hinders the progress of what they’re actually tryna accomplish here.

 

[Lycenum_lycopersicum]

i mean, i guess it can work?
The FAQ says this: "Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."
Although they didn't provide a principle for why this must be the case as general rule,you can easily have cosmic inflation(it doesnt need to be consistent with actual theories whatsoever either) or expansive non-dimensional nothingness separating them. so instead of examining whether series favours the bulk space embedding case by case, tiering system already presupposes this favour for any series as general rule unless directly contradicted in the series itself,for which i struggle to find a justifying principle,and it is easily exploitable.
I assume it can fit into current standard based on provided argument, although i remain wary of the standard

 

[Floxy178]

I never said you said anything about timelines; that was simply an analogy.

Okay.

And no, “infinity” means nothing here: simply having multiple “infinite lines” doesn’t mean the overall structure extends into the second dimension; all of them are equally infinitesimal to the 2D plane the same way the Cantor Set is in relation to a line (even though it contains an uncountably large amount of points

You do know I'm talking about structure that physically contains them, not collection of timelines right? Because otherwise your point doesn't make sense.

Actually, let’s leave this discussion for another CRT, since it isn’t actually being proposed in the OP and it only hinders the progress of what they’re actually tryna accomplish here.

Sure.

 

[SuperNova55555]

i mean, i guess it can work?
The FAQ says this: "Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size."
Although they didn't provide a principle for why this must be the case as general rule,you can easily have cosmic inflation(it doesnt need to be consistent with actual theories whatsoever either) or expansive non-dimensional nothingness separating them. so instead of examining whether series favours the bulk space embedding case by case, tiering system already presupposes this favour for any series as general rule unless directly contradicted in the series itself,for which i struggle to find a justifying principle,and it is easily exploitable.
I assume it can fit into current standard based on provided argument, although i remain wary of the standard

After giving it a read, I agree with this take.

As for info manip, maybe Type 3 CM fits better.

 

[Seraphor12]

After giving it a read, I agree with this take.

As for info manip, maybe Type 3 CM fits better.

yeah it also looks like a cm but it is very much like info manipulation. And spaceman also thinks it is info manipulation

 

[SuperNova55555]

yeah it also looks like a cm but it is very much like info manipulation. And spaceman also thinks it is info manipulation

It’s pretty debatable. The Name stuff is very esoteric so a lot of hax could fit it

 

[Verezen]

This is about Low 1-C and Information Manipulation in Shadow Slave verse. This is the blog which explains Low 1-C argument in detail and below is a summary of it.

Spell's innerworking

vsbattles.fandom.com

Spoiler: Low 1-C

Terminology:​

Reality: It is the universe which includes realms like war realm and dream realm which is accepted as 2-C in last CRT
Dream: Dream refers to nightmares. In ss nightmares refers to an entirely different world where humans go and have to solve a conflict to rank up.
Spell: It is a system like thing which sends peoples from reality to nightmares and helps them in ranking up. It's innerworkings exists in a space between reality and dream (in this place it sends peoples also where they rank up and gets appraisal from it.) and it is like several constellations.

According to tiering system FAQ:

• This “Space Between Dream and Reality” exists outside all realms in “Reality” and the entirety of “Dream". This places it beyond the 4D spacetime continuums. It's also similar to brane cosmology where 4D spacetime is a brane inside a higher dimensional “bulk” (hyperspace/subspace).
• Strings of fate are described as “stretching infinitely into every direction” (spatial) and “into the past, present, and future” (temporal). This implies each direction being an infinite real number line and so there is infinite distance in every direction.
• Strings of Fate connect everything in existence including temporal axis(past/present/future.)
• The text explicitly says even an infinitesimal fraction of its informational content instantly destroys any living being except possibly a god. Given its embedding all of time and existence, this destruction should be the result of an infinite gap.
• The last CRT already accepted the “Reality” as potentially infinite in size. The “Space Between Dream and Reality” exists above this layer and is directly connected to the concept of infinity in-verse.

This is the blog for more better explanation on it

Spell's innerworking

vsbattles.fandom.com

So, will this space be low 1-C? As well those strings of fate and spell?

And for information:

Spoiler: Information

And for information manipulation type 2





Names are tied directly to existence and identity. A True Name acts as an anchor for the soul, allowing one to recover lost skills, knowledge, and memories. Everything that exists has a name, and in a sense it only begins to truly exist once it is named. Ordinary names are weak, but True Names hold power over the thing they belong to. In shaping sorcery, it works by invoking the one true language woven into reality itself, where every word is a True Name. Speaking this language reshapes the world, since it is the same language the gods use. By channeling and assembling True Names into verses, Shapers can alter reality. Mortals normally cannot handle this knowledge, since True Names were meant for gods, but rare individuals with talent can partially wield them. Writing made this even more effective, since it allowed Names to be permanently anchored to objects. So, does this qualify for type 1 or 2?

1. Low 1C looks fine, no issues that I can think of.
2. Its clearly type 2, as type 1 would simply be a manipulation of what people know or understand, whereas this is clearly something more fundamental to existence and capable of altering and shaping existence. CM doesn’t really work as they’re not altering the concept of a name, rather invoking the name to cause an affect.

 

[Seraphor12]

It’s pretty debatable. The Name stuff is very esoteric so a lot of hax could fit it

yeah it is very haxed in story aswell. Although there is not enough context from story on it for now

 

[Seraphor12]

2. Its clearly type 2, as type 1 would simply be a manipulation of what people know or understand, whereas this is clearly something more fundamental to existence and capable of altering and shaping existence. CM doesn’t really work as they’re not altering the concept of a name, rather invoking the name to cause an affect.

yeh nephis got some good hax finally

 

[Seraphor12]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Unsure if this is enough to qualify for Low 1-C

 

[Seraphor12]

Unsure if this is enough to qualify for Low 1-C

uh agnaa said that these four are the conditions for qualifying for tier 1. And it is also said on tiering system faq. it have infinite distance in all directions and is also infinite in size so idk it should qualify?

 

[FinePoint]

Seems more like BDE Type 1.

There's really nothing in the original scans implying a 'higher' plane, just an 'outside' one.

Info Type 2 seems fine.

 

[Seraphor12]

Seems more like BDE Type 1.

There's really nothing in the original scans implying a 'higher' plane, just an 'outside' one.

Yes, it exists outside of spacetime continuums but idk if it exists outside of them in "ontologically different" way which is BDE type 1. It exists outside of reality in the way a hyperspace would be, and this is implied when it is called as a space between reality and dream. Reality here is 2-C which was accepted here in this crt. Dreams are "Nightmares" which are the past events which takes place on a different place, and they have to solve a conflict which changes the timeline in it to conquer those nightmares and rank up. So, this place exists between these timelines, and so a space between timelines should be 5-D? And then there are strings of fate which are stretching infinitely into every direction and transfix all of the universe including its past, present and future. It is a force which connects everything together and exists in this place, this implies they contain uncountably infinite instances of entire universe and the information in them is also this much high that even an tiniest or infinitesimal part of it can destroy any living being's mind and the way they are shown it should be on a scale infinitely above what lower-dimensional beings could handle? So this should imply a higher power level? These strings of fate superimposed themselves above the world while connecting everything. Which should imply it exists on a higher plane? And this all exists in this place, and it is also implied to being infinite/endless in size so it should be low 1-C?

Info Type 2 seems fine.

Sure

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Yes, it exists outside of spacetime continuums but idk if it exists outside of them in "ontologically different" way which is BDE type 1. It exists outside of reality in the way a hyperspace would be, and this is implied when it is called as a space between reality and dream. Reality here is 2-C which was accepted here in this crt.
Dreams are "Nightmares" which are the past events which takes place on a different place, and they have to solve a conflict which changes the timeline in it to conquer those nightmares and rank up. So, this place exists between these timelines, and so a space between timelines should be 5-D? And then there are strings of fate which are stretching infinitely into every direction and transfix all of the universe including its past, present and future. It is a force which connects everything together and exists in this place, this implies they contain uncountably infinite instances of entire universe and the information in them is also this much high that even an tiniest or infinitesimal part of it can destroy any living being's mind and the way they are shown it should be on a scale infinitely above what lower-dimensional beings could handle? So this should imply a higher power level? These strings of fate superimposed themselves above the world while connecting everything. Which should imply it exists on a higher plane? And this all exists in this place, and it is also implied to being infinite/endless in size so it should be low 1-C?

Idk if I’m missing something, but how exactly are nightmares another timeline? I thought it was just illusions of the past the spell made. Also, this "space between dream and reality" has stars within it? Are we sure this is like a real place outside the space-time continuums?

 

[Seraphor12]

Idk if I’m missing something, but how exactly are nightmares another timeline? I thought it was just illusions of the past the spell made. Also, this "space between dream and reality" has stars within it? Are we sure this is like a real place outside the space-time continuums?

Yes, they're just a copy of a particular time period in past events. And for illusion part it's not exactly known if they're illusion or not as this guy says that they assume they're illusions because it is easier to kill monsters or peoples in them by assuming that they're illusions and not real. And for those stars they're the souls of peoples.

 

[Seraphor12]

Unsure if this is enough to qualify for Low 1-C

Btw do you agree with info type 2?

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Yes, they're just a copy of a particular time period in past events. And for illusion part it's not exactly known if they're illusion or not as this guy says that they assume they're illusions because it is easier to kill monsters or peoples in them by assuming that they're illusions and not real.

So what points to them actually being different spacetimes rather than just illusions?

And for those stars they're the souls of peoples.

I see

 

[Seraphor12]

So what points to them actually being different spacetimes rather than just illusions?

They might be illusions or might not be it's unclear as all these seed of nightmares are a dream of forgotten god. And no I didn't meant they're different spacetimes, just meant they go in that copy of the world and have to solve conflict and change history or outcome of the nightmare from what actually happened in past for their survival.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

They might be illusions or might not be it's unclear as all these seed of nightmares are a dream of forgotten god. And no I didn't meant they're different spacetimes, just meant they go in that copy of the world and have to solve conflict and change history or outcome of the nightmare from what actually happened in past for their survival.

I think they're just real, also considering how VTB was able to steal Sunny's fate within a nightmare and it had tangible effect on reality, and the fact the souls are just as real. Also don't forget that whatever the forgotten god dreams essentially warps reality or comes into existence.

 

[Floxy178]

They're physical copies. People travel to nightmares physically, their bodies literally disappear after entering them (except 1st nightmare, but we know that Spell is capable of creating a second body for it, so it's not a problem I guess).

Also they literally affect people as killing creatures give you fragments for example.

 

[Seraphor12]

Anyway they might be real, but the main point here is that this place exists outside of reality like a bulk but not in an ontologically different way like aspatial and atemporal which would be BDE type 1.