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Does Gajeel have DF without any time limit during the fight?
If so I vote for him FRA, plus his stat amps and versatility.
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Shadow Magic vs Shadow Magic
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
If so I vote for him FRA, plus his stat amps and versatility.
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Yeah, OP never specified a time limit for DF so I'd assume there's none
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Then I vote for Gajeel FRA and for the stuff I said.
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I disagree, Madness Manipulation and Corruption is a huge concern. You and I know very well that it did not take long for Nero to succumb to it.
So I’m voting Nacht via Madness Manipulation and Corruption. Willpower is not enough to circumvent turining into an ancient demon and losing your mind especially when the more negative mana Gajeel absorbs, the less likely Supernatural Willpower becomes less relevant.
Nacht can also use Felis mode to dodge incoming attacks and can also amp his stats by using two devil unions. Nacht will use Mana Zone to enhance his already broken stealth mastery and if Gajeel absorbs mana zone with all its magic that’s so large and dense enough to block out light. He is turning to a bird.
Nacht takes this pretty easily if Gajeel keeps absorbing his devil magic.
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You act as though he's gonna instantly turn into an Ancient Demon the moment he gets a taste of Nacht's Shadow Magic 
Gajeel's a smart combatant. If something's off when he's eating that magic, he'll stop. And again, even if he doesn't eat it, he's still immune to it.
Gajeel's a smart combatant. If something's off when he's eating that magic, he'll stop. And again, even if he doesn't eat it, he's still immune to it.
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You act as though he's gonna instantly turn into an Ancient Demon the moment he gets a taste of Nacht's Shadow Magic
I never implied it’s instant tho. You just keep poisoning the well by saying I implied such when I never did. I clearly said it did not take long. It’s simply faster for him to turn to a bird than to turn to an ancient demon.
Licht who turned to ancient demons already had resistance to it… probably even compared to other elves who had resistance… and he had taken in a shit ton of negative mana.
Secre who had absolutely 0 resistance and only used negative mana twice before turning to a bird for 500 years. And those were not spells of the highest level, those were lower level ass forbidden magic spells
Nacht has the necessary spells and stamina to outlast Gajeel. If you’re so hell bent on Gajeel eating devil shadow magic, then that’s his fate after some time.
Where does his immunity to shadow magic come from then if not by eating Nacht’s devil shadow magic? Nacht’s starting moves in this key are Mana Zone spells. So once he eats Mana Zone spells that have way more magic power than regular spells… he better spit it out or it’s wraps in a few min if not less.
Like I said Nacht has the necessary spells and stat amps like Felis Mode and Double Devil Union Modes and stamina to outlast Gajeel during his corruption process.
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Mainly gonna focus on this
Dragon Slayers are immune to their elements, regardless of whether or not they eat them. For instance, a fire attack would do absolutely nothing to Natsu, even if he doesn't eat it. Eating the element simply lets them replenish their magic or take on the properties of the element they're eating if it has any special properties (i.e. Natsu eating Eclipse Leo's black flames and gaining black flames himself)
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How many layers is that?
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I don't think it's layered. Though I also don't think Nacht's Shadow Magic is layered either, so it kinda levels out
Natsu gains a layered resistance to his element, as he's able to consume fire that bypasses his initial resistance at some point in Fairy Tail, but idk if that translates over to Gajeel
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Forbidden Magic spells far exceed the capabilities of Regular Magic spells. Hence why things like curses, healing, sealing, etc.. are stronger when they’re used. The only way only way Regular Magic spells can surpass Forbidden Magic spells is via an insane amount of magic power.
For Nacht’s case he’s guaranteed at least 1 layer via using devil power. Only 1 cuz he has not shown layers with his regular magic power. For those who don’t know, forbidden magic spells are spells that make use of devil power
For Nacht’s case he’s guaranteed at least 1 layer via using devil power. Only 1 cuz he has not shown layers with his regular magic power. For those who don’t know, forbidden magic spells are spells that make use of devil power
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I know Forbidden Magic > regular Magic in potency but idk if that's considered an extra layer. We don't see Forbidden Magic overcoming resistances that its regular counterpart can't break through iirc
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Gajeel, as well as other dragon slayers, has shown time and time again to incorporate aspects of what they eat into their own magic, despite not resisting the effects of said magic in the first place
For all we know Gajeel can eat it and end up assimilating Devil magic into his own body while ignoring the negative effects
Nacht doesn't have access to high level Forbidden Magic, nor does his regular magic contain devil abilities. If he uses his regular spells Gajeel will eat them without difficulty
Nacht doesn't have any amps in his key since his High 6A is already using Devil Union and is his strongest key. Double Devil Union mode doesn't double his AP
Why doesn't literally everyone in the verse have resistances to mind and madness manip then? Half the cast has fought against or used Devil magic before, yet their profiles don't have anything of the sort
Also, what's stopping Gajeel from spamming his own Shadow magic and corroding Nacht out of existence? I don't see resistance to corrosion inducement on Nacht's page. Gajeel needs to enter Iron Shadow Dragon Mode in order to eat shadows, and if he attacks back it's kinda over
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Oh we see that quite often… we talked about this a while back, couple of months ago. Where you agreed they’re layered.
For example, regular Curse Magic can be overridden but Forbidden Magic Curses can’t. Nero’s Sealing won’t work for Zagred but Forbidden Magic Sealing will. There’s just that guaranteed 1layer to Forbidden Magic spells.
Then using more powerful Forbidden Magic spells grant additional layers like bypassing Elf resistances to its effects and Megicula bypassing Anti-Curse. So yeah simply using Forbidden Magic grants at the very least 1layer over magic resistance.
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That's fair enough. I suppose eating Nacht's Shadow Magic is off the table then, which I'd honestly say makes this a more interesting fight
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NLF. I doubt Gajeel can incorporate any and all effects. So prove he can ignore a corrupting effect of forbidden magic. Has he ever absorbed magic that could corrupt him otherwise?
Btw it’s also literally a side effect of assimilating Devil Magic and using it.
Nacht has negative magic power beyond even that of Ancient Demon level corrupting spells. His double devil Union allows him reach supreme devil level of power for crying out loud.
Edit: Since he has no resistance, regular spells will work just like it did on Nero who had no resistance.
Still an amp regardless. It boosts all his physical stats from Mid Ranking Devil hierarchy to Supreme Devil Level.
Fighting against Devil Magic ≠ Absorbing and using Devil Magic
Can dodge attacks from those faster than him using Felis Mode. Couple that with his double Devil Union and Mana Zone stat amps and his Stealth Mastery… it’s gonna be damn near impossible to land enough hits to take him out.
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Wasn't Natsu weakened by eating a strange flame in that bow of eclipsed spirits ? Gajeel shouldn't be able to clear any debuffs if he consumes the shadows.
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1. Dragon Slayers like Natsu have been able to eat all sorts of things that have nothing to do with his own element and can still incorporate it into his body. Other Dragon Slayers, especially the First Gen, are portrayed as having similar physiology and feats. Assuming that it's a NFL basically translates to not being able to Adapt to anything at all, which isn't true. We don't KNOW if it's true, but it's happened before, so it's an idea we can entertain.
2. Nacht was still completely bodied and toyed with actual Supreme Devils such as Lilith and Naamah even before they fused. So no he's not as strong as Supreme Devils
3. He's not Supreme Devil level, but yeah I'm reading on his page that he does get stronger so that's fair
4. Lieb's resistances to Devil hax come from being exposed and attacked by it when he was a toddler. This should apply for other characters damaged by Devils as well.
5. if Gajeel sees Nacht use shadow magic he will immediately start using Iron Shadow Dragon Mode in order to attempt to abuse his shadow absorption. At this point, anything he does can 1 shot Nacht just by touching him or any of his attacks or even his aura, since both characters's magic power will permeate the air, Nacht via Mana Room and Gajeel via pretty much just powering up or using any of his AOE. Not to mention, Nacht doesn't start with Felis, which is bad since A. 1 hit is enough to corrode his entire body, and 2. Nacht doesn't just ultra instinct in character
After doing a lot more research and basically rereading Black Clover, it doesn't seem like Gajeel will have a good time if he gets madness manip'd unless h manages to anime protagonist the power into his body. As mentioned in #4, every character in Black Clover should have resistance to Devil hax due to taking hits from Devils. Since Gajeel resists noe of that, once Nacht uses Mana Room he imediately goes insane and there's not really anything he could do. Sure he could 1 shot with Shadow corrosion but he needs to activate that mode first, and that's not happening before Nacht uses Mana Room
switching my vote to Nacht
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I see
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I say this now, but I don't remember that arc that much, but natsu started out losing like always.
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Nope, sorry i can't let you vote for Nacht for these reasons either..
Liebe's resistance came from him being a literal devil. Devils aren't affected by their own magic so Liebe shouldn't be affected either if he had magic.
Simply being exposed to Forbidden Magic isn't enough to get corrupted by it. One has to actually assimilate it into the body or use it's power. Its like a toxic drug not a toxic weapon. So only those who can handle its effects should be fine.
So Gajeel can survive in Mana Zone, as long as he doesn't eat his Mana Zone.
Although Nacht can still win here so vote Nacht for his enhanced Stealth Mastery and stat amps as i mentioned earlier, The high risk of madness manipulation, Devil Shadow Clones, paralysis via sound manipulation and restrain Gajeel and/or remove him from the battlefield with Higher LS and Shadow portals.
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I went back to see if I was right and I really was, episode 215 at minute 04:35 begins to say that Natsu started to have a high fever and was weakened to the point of not being able to fight for having absorbed Loki's fire magic of darkness . however, even if he turned bad, that was only after he defeated Loki with his magic.
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Devils only have that resistance in the first place because they aren't affected by other Devil's corruption even though they are being exposed to it externally. I used Liebe in this example because he literally has no mana, and thus should be the prime candidate for corruption, yet still isn't. He's not corrupting himself, and he's also not being corrupted by others
Basically speaking, Devils only get the resistance because they don't corrupt others of the same species via their offensive attacks. Therefore, anyone who has also facetanked these attacks should get the same resistances for the same reason
With this in mind, Gajeel can't even survive in Mana Zone
As for the Stealth Mastery, it mostly comes from him suppressing his own mana so Gajeel can't sense him, so it's not like he can just dodge everything with it. But Mana Zone can darken his surroundings so he can use it in TANDEM with his mana suppression, so that's definitely fair
As for stat amps, Gajeel has them too, no? His current AP is a bit higher than Nacht's by using Dragon Force, and he can stack ISDM on top of that which is portrayed as equal to his Dragon Force
Kazuma_kuwabara
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Natsu got ill eating etherion, Gajeel eating something so cursed would give him the worst case of diarrhea ever, so he could become stronger but only for a limited amount of time before being weakened for eating something that his body should not consume
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Okay this is a cool match up, but I want to clear of some misconceptions on how Slayer Absorption works. Through their absorption based power mimicry Slayers and Gajeel specifically can also gain above baseline resistance to the aforementioned elements and the specific abilities tied to that element that they take in as long as they share an elemental type. Many slayers have done this like Natsu with god slayer magic and atlas flames hellfire magic, gray with invels ice magic, and gajeel is no exception. For instance in gajeels fight with torafuzar, his water was able to poison natsu to unconsciousness who has resistance to poison. Gajeel countered this by absorbing the carbon atoms in the water turning him into steel which allowed him to completely resist the poison that was killing him moments ago. Gajeel himself also was able to absorb Magic barrier particles which destroy magic to a point of death for most mages. Dragon slayers like Laxus were able to resist this effect due to his special lungs that all slayers possess but even that protection wasn't going to save him from Magic barrier particles. Despite this Gajeel could filter out the magic barrier particles due to them containing trace amounts of Iron. Since the negative mana is being absorbed through shadow magic, gajeel shouldn't have many problems with its effects. Basically it's very difficult to harm a Slayer with their element.
Slayers also Amp their magic potency when they absorb a stronger version of their element. As when Natsu fought zancrow, Natsu was susceptible to zancrow's fire magic and couldn't bypass Zancrows own fire resistance and absorption. However after absorbing it he was able to one-shot zancrow with his own God flame despite slayers having stonewall resistance to their own magic.
As far as Wincons for Gajeel, what's stopping him from corroding and transmuting Nacht into pure shadow via an Iron Shadow Dragon roar?
Slayers also Amp their magic potency when they absorb a stronger version of their element. As when Natsu fought zancrow, Natsu was susceptible to zancrow's fire magic and couldn't bypass Zancrows own fire resistance and absorption. However after absorbing it he was able to one-shot zancrow with his own God flame despite slayers having stonewall resistance to their own magic.
As far as Wincons for Gajeel, what's stopping him from corroding and transmuting Nacht into pure shadow via an Iron Shadow Dragon roar?
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Slaye magic works exactly as you say. They suffer from the effects of what they eat before eventually assimilating it into their bodies after a period of time. Problem is, Gajeel goes insane immediately after consuming it, which either ***** him immediately or gives Nacht enough time to abuse the stunlock
As for the Corossion, he doesn't start with it. If he goes ISDM after seeing Nacht use shadows, he's probably going to eat his shadows at first opportunity before actually fighting, which will result in his loss
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The resistance that they gain is basically instantaneous as a nearly dead gajeel was able to immediately resist torafuzars poison and bloodmans magic barrier particles which can basicially insta kill mages via magic deficiency disease and gajeel was able to counter both of them near instantly upon absorbing them.
If he sees nacht use shadows he'd go into Iron Shadow Dragon mode to stonewall his magic attacks. And shadow Dragon Slayer magic itself has the effect of corrosion and transmutation, it isn't a special ability gajeel has to activate, and it isn't ooc either since gajeel goes for the kill in most of his fights unless he can't like in the grand magic games.
Edit: won't be able to respond for a while for work
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The Nacht’s Devil Magic’s madness manipulation and corruption is inherent to the type of mana and not the element of Shadow. So Gajeel absorbing Nacht’s shadow magic has negative side effects due to negative mana.
Note: the examples you gave are not layered resistances. They are different forms of resistance. Gajeel just resisted poison manipulation differently than usual. For example: Gajeel has to resist poison manipulation the same way Natsu usually does for his resistance to be layered. Gajeel’s resistance is different but more effective but it’s still not layered. Obviously messing with the chemical structure of the water will ruin its poisonous properties but he has to survive the poison for his body’s resistance to be layered above Natsu’s.
Nacht has speed amps (Felix Mode, Mana Zone and Double Devil Union) and Stealth Mastery as mentioned in the thread already.
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to be fair, Gajeel also has speed amps via ISDM
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Yeah that’s fine but Nacht has more with one of the amps being able to react to those faster than him. And the Stealth Mastery too with Mana Zone: Hunting Ground. His regular Stealth already blocks magic sensing, so imagine if all senses are cut off.
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His speed amp allows him to react to people faster than him?
isn't that the definition of what a speed amp is?
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Well… yeah lol. But let me be more detailed
The supreme devils blitzed Dante and Jack… but Nacht who is comprable to Dante could dodge a danmaku from both Naamah and Lilith. So that puts things into perspective.
Then the more amps the faster he is. And with stealth it’s quite impossible to tag him with corrosion.
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that's fair but Gajeel has a shit ton of AOE
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The first attack Nacht dodged from the devils was a big AOE attack… but Nacht can just move into the shadows to avoid it if it’s too big.
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Since Nacht has answer to Gajeel’s wincons it’s safe to say Gajeel gets outlasted during the corruption process (we know Gajeel will try to eat Nacht’s shadow).
We've established Gajeel can’t gain resistances outside the realms of NLF since there is no iron component in Nacht’s spells nor in devil power.
And in case Gajeel doesn’t eat Nacht’s shadow right off the bad.. it’s still extremely difficult to kill a guy with a good as shit stealth mastery, mana zone, paralysis, speed amp etc, just ways for Nacht to land and avoid attacks if they slug it out.
Oh and BFR
So while Gajeel’s corrosion makes this not a stomp, I’ll just go ahead and vote Nacht.
We've established Gajeel can’t gain resistances outside the realms of NLF since there is no iron component in Nacht’s spells nor in devil power.
And in case Gajeel doesn’t eat Nacht’s shadow right off the bad.. it’s still extremely difficult to kill a guy with a good as shit stealth mastery, mana zone, paralysis, speed amp etc, just ways for Nacht to land and avoid attacks if they slug it out.
Oh and BFR
So while Gajeel’s corrosion makes this not a stomp, I’ll just go ahead and vote Nacht.
Kazuma_kuwabara
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Bump
Arnold lost to dread's worst version brawlhalla, she soloed him
Arnold lost to dread's worst version brawlhalla, she soloed him
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