Servants Physical Strength

[Alakabamm]

There are three versions of Aoko, all from parallel universes:

KnK (unseen) (confirmed by Nasu's comments on Touko/Dead Apostles)

Fate/Tsukihime/Melty Blood (main canon one for most people)

Mahoyo (sort of like a prototype one, Nasu is usually vague on its distinction from anything but KnK)

 

[Promestein]

At least Town level, likely higher, may be best for Aoko. Probably for Prime Roa and Powered Ciel, too.

On that note, one of the Fate guidebook things apparently says that members of the Burial Agency can fight on par with Servants, which would get Ciel upgraded if it's valid. May or may not be; it could very well just be more contradictory garbage.

 

[Inoue211]

Hm I don't really agree. I think Aoko(as of MB) and Kouma should be City level because of Gae Bolg being city level.

I think Ciel should be left as it is until someone finds something(or not)


And Roa should be the same as whatever powered Ciel ends up being, town level for now. Prime Roa(with a fragment of Arc's powers) should be left in "uknown, higher" and add the fact that he beat Altrouge as proof.

 

[Inoue211]

Oh and going a bit off-topic but since we're on a Fate thread. I think Avenger should be changed to Unknown.


As everyone here should know this verse is clearly not made for powerlevel debates because it operates under it's own meta rules that make no sense in other verses. You can stretch it for majority of characters(and the profiles are still never fully accurate) but Avenger is one of the worst offenders, he will always kill humans because he has conceptual advantage going on. As he says in HA it doesn't matter if the strongest human in history were to fight him, he'd still win.

So characters like Shirou or Shiki would lose despite being "stronger". Meanwhile someone like Akiha that's not entirely human could tear him apart.

Similar example in the verse is Perseus. He will always win against Medusa because he was born to do so.

As an add, I haven't read Garden of Avalon but there's apparently a part where Gawain starts talking about Dragons and he mentions something similar, he says that Dragons are unreachable beings to humans and that the heroes that kill Dragons are still much weaker than them but able to do so because it's their destiny.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hmm. @KamiYasha: Yo dude, has there been enough input to set the changes? Just making sure here....

 

[KamiYasha]

Pretty much everyone agrees.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Pretty much everyone agrees.

Again, just making sure.

 

[Inoue211]

Wait there. I was looking around(because it makes no sense that one of Lancer's trump card, an overcharged magical Nuke is the same as his normal blows) and found this which invalidates the whole B rank strenght thing:

Fate/complete material III: World Material - The Servants of the Fifth Holy Grail War: Saber

Mana Burst: A

"The ability to reinforce one's weapon and body through the infusion of magical energy. By reinforcing the ability of the body to a great extend using magical energy, the physically fragile Artoria was able to fight head on with monsters such as Berserker. At rank A, even a stick can become a weapon of great power."


So yeah It confirms that this scaling is wrong, Saber is a unique case because of her unique skill, this doesn't apply to other servants.


Now i'm not saying other servants can't be City level(they should, via Noble Phantasms and the line) i'm just saying that B rank doesn't mean City. Unless i'm missing something here in that case feel free to point it out.

 

[Alakabamm]

Because Prana Burst doesn't actually boost her strength to A, it boosts it probably a half rank.

The reason we know this is because even with Prana Burst, she cannot harm God Hand (in the VN). Disregard the newest anime series, it took several liberties it should not have.

 

[Yamatohime]

Hm I don't really agree. I think Aoko(as of MB) and Kouma should be City level because of Gae Bolg being city level.

Offensive C-rank NP is equal to A-rank STR parameter.

The reason we know this is because even with Prana Burst, she cannot harm God Hand (in the VN). Disregard the newest anime series, it took several liberties it should not have.

Prana Burst do not increase Attack Power directly though. It increase overall physical stats. Otherwise Berserker can send Saber flying even if she perfectly block his attack.

 

[Inoue211]

@Alakabamm "Because Prana Burst doesn't actually boost her strength to A, it boosts it probably a half rank."

It's described as a great boost that makes her able to fight monsters like Berserker.

"'By reinforcing the ability of the body to a great extend using magical energy" "'At rank A, even a stick can become a weapon of great power"

I didn't say a thing about the anime, i'm posting what the materials say about her ability.

 

[Inoue211]

Hm I don't really agree. I think Aoko(as of MB) and Kouma should be City level because of Gae Bolg being city level.

Offensive C-rank NP is equal to A-rank STR parameter.

I was just going by what this wikia has Cu's thrown GB at.

 

[Alakabamm]

And what occurs in the VN should be more important than the materials. We know it isn't A-rank. It's likely boosted B-rank.

 

[Yamatohime]

And what occurs in the VN should be more important than the materials. We know it isn't A-rank. It's likely boosted B-rank.

B+ rank attack can inflict more damage compared to A rank attack (via some additional effects probably). But GH do not care...

 

[Alakabamm]

B+ rank attack can inflict more damage compared to A rank attack (via some additional effects probably). But GH do not care...

Except that Nasu also said that Lancer - with a B-rank NP and runes - can bypass GH.

 

[Inoue211]

That's because he has runes that can rank Gae Bolg's mistery up to A

Q. Lancer, Caster, Assassin, and True Assassins; all with normal attack and Noble Phantasms of B or lower. If they fought against Berserker, wouldn't it be a one-sided fight? Or are there any of them that can match up against him?

A: Assassin and True Assassin by themselves wouldn't even be a fight. Lancer can use his runes and Noble Phantasm together to temporarily raise the rank to A, but it'd still be a very disadvantageous fight but "one with some chances".


God Hand is not about power at all, like Saber says even if a NP were to destroy the planet if it's less than A rank he'll be fine.

 

[Alakabamm]

But that necessarily means that her strength is still "B-rank," just boosted B-rank.

Saying it is more powerful than enhanced Cu would be wrong. Nasu says nothing about "mystery" in that quote.

 

[Inoue211]

But that necessarily means that her strength is still "B-rank," just boosted B-rank.

Not really

Saying it is more powerful than enhanced Cu would be wrong.

Nasu says that the runes can rank up Gae Bolg to A rank, it doesn't say that their purpose is giving it more destructive output. If it was just destructive output it would rank to B+ since it's way higher than A. Hell C+ is higher than A. Destructive output is useless against God Hand, what you need is the superior rank, a higher mystery(which is what Saber says).


Nasu says nothing about "mystery" in that quote.

It's just what the ranks are based on. You don't need to use the word though.

 

[Alakabamm]

Yes really. It's not A-rank, it's boosted B-rank. Undeniable.

Our system works based off feats. A servant with D rank power is not 2/5 of an A rank servant in our system.

I understand what Nasu said but it doesn't fit. And the ranks are based off power as well.

 

[Yamatohime]

Except that Nasu also said that Lancer - with a B-rank NP and runes - can bypass GH.

Runes are divine-like magic though... It's superior to modern magecraft and not so far from Medea's magecraft.