Serious Broly upgrades

[Eden_Warlock99]

Broly Also was a Universal threat

The difference is Broly, unlike Frieza (who can live for how long) and Buu (immortal) will die when he gets old, Saiyans Die after 100 or so years, and Broly is stated to be a universal threat 4 times, unlike that one Frieza statement.

 

[KageSakaDark]

I really don't think this will be going anywhere lol

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I should add 3-A canon Kid Buu to the list along side the Tier 7 Arceus downgrade

 

[AwkguyDB]

That would be the day

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Funny thing is, even 3-A Manga Kid Buu is more legit than this considering Goku actually implied he'd destroy the universe instantly.

I believe we have nine statements that implies Majin Buu is 3-A:

-Goku's statement

-Old Kai's statement

-Vegito's statement

-Daizenshuu's statement

-Author's statement

Etc.

 

[Kepekley23]

Well, he isn't 3-A so that's that.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Funny thing is, even 3-A Manga Kid Buu is more legit than this considering Goku actually implied he'd destroy the universe instantly.

Well that's not far fetched when it comes to the anime so 3-A base GT Goku?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Kid Buu is immortal, him being a Universal threat can range from Star level to Multi-Galaxy level, but Broly would die if he reaches 100 years, that would give a timeframe for him to destroy the Universe, which is Multi-Galaxy level.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Off-topic, but when are we getting ourselves a universal level Post-Crisis Superman?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The 3-A stuff were jokes, plus that's enough derailing for the thread. Assuming the thread isn't already concluded that is

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Seriously, there's a mountain of evidence Broly is Multi-Galaxy level, First he destroyed the Southern Galaxies, which are 1/4th the Universe, this is confirmed by lots and I means lots of statements, from King Kai, Goku,Paragus, and even the Narrator.

And this makes sense, as King Kai stated he would also destroy his Northern Galaxies, if Broly is only Multi-Solar System level, he wouldn't be a threat to 1/2 of the universe even if he was able to live for millions of years,This is backed up by the 4 Universal threat statements he has.

And for more evidence, Yamauchi stated he can destroy Galaxies, All this evidence makes him easily 3-B.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

When he's as fast as he is scaling from, it is actually far from unbelievable.

But yes, as Kep said, whatever the actual translation what is shown in the movie is clear - a galaxy. Nothing more. Retroactively applying information that is incongruent with the movie itself is just cherry picking if we use the multiple galaxies of GT.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

When he's as fast as he is scaling from, it is actually far from unbelievable.
But yes, as Kep said, whatever the actual translation what is shown in the movie is clear - a galaxy. Nothing more. Retroactively applying information that is incongruent with the movie itself is just cherry picking if we use the multiple galaxies of GT.

Let me ask you this,the Broly Movie is linked with the Anime,Right? in the Anime, the Southern, Northern Galaxies are large Areas and every one of them is 1/4th the Universe, If that's the case, Why would we assume that the Southern Galaxies are just one Galaxy? Why would we do that? We know the're Large quadrants, Why would we assume that the're galaxies just in this movie? Them being a single Galaxy doesn't even make sense going by the movie, if they were one Galaxy, how would Broly be any kind of a threat if he takes 31 years to destroy a single Galaxy, he's stated to be a Universal threat,not once, not twice, But Four times! And there's also the Yamauchi statement on top of that.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Broly Also was a Universal threat

The difference is Broly, unlike Frieza (who can live for how long) and Buu (immortal) will die when he gets old, Saiyans Die after 100 or so years, and Broly is stated to be a universal threat 4 times, unlike that one Frieza statement.
DBGT Goku would like to have a word with you, he was still in his prime after 100 years.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

"Saiyans are a warrior race, so their aging slows once they reach an age suitable for fighting, and they maintain great strength for a long time. However, their lifespan is not much different from Earthlings', and when they reach a certain age, they rapidly grow frail."

Stated Toriyama

And wasn't that Goku Immortal or something? For absorbing the Dragon balls?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The difference is Broly, unlike Frieza (who can live for how long) and Buu (immortal) will die when he gets old, Saiyans Die after 100 or so years, and Broly is stated to be a universal threat 4 times, unlike that one Frieza statement.
DBGT Goku would like to have a word with you, he was still in his prime after 100 years.

The same Goku who absorbed the Dragon Balls, mind you.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@John You obviously don't even remember that special. Goku had fused with Shenron, he wasn't a normal Saiyan anymore. Unless you think Vegeta is still around.

@Adem I never said we would assume they are one? I said that the obvious implication is the movie is one. You can think of them actually evisioning it as 4 galaxies, or the director using the term Toriyama uses and thinking it actually meant quadrant, or a change of decision, or whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that what we see visibly affected is one single galaxy, which again the word in question can mean galaxies... or galaxy. Retroactively changing things due to future when we are showcased Broly's destruction and it doesn't spread farther than a single galaxy is a big no for me, double no because then the whole scaling makes utterly not a shit of sense. Even the "Broly can't be a threat since he won't be alive forever" feels dumb when this is a dude that can go at quadrillions of times the speed of light and can make danmaku levels of ki blasts with ease, not to mention getting stronger and faster ALLL of the while that he does this because LSSJ hacks for life or something.

And don't bring up any Yamauchi statement. It is trash. These statements really don't bring anything valuable, honestly. Even if we took it at face value, if Broly kept going the way he was, he would have destroyed 3 galaxies before turning 100... which is multiple galaxies, surprisingly enough. And no, I am not saying this is how it would have played out, merely that the stats he has now and his behavior in the movie don't in a single way contradict said statement, just the numbers you are hoping to get out of them.

 

[AwkguyDB]

When he's as fast as he is scaling from, it is actually far from unbelievable.
But yes, as Kep said, whatever the actual translation what is shown in the movie is clear - a galaxy. Nothing more. Retroactively applying information that is incongruent with the movie itself is just cherry picking if we use the multiple galaxies of GT.

Paragus: "we would no longer have a single foe left. The Northern Galaxy, and of course the Eastern and Western Galaxies,would be undivided under our rule."


Pretty sure they are talking about the Quadrants.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This still doesn't change the fact that what we see affected when discussing the damage Broly has done, and that has North Kai calling Goku's ass, is nothing more than a singular galaxy.

Leave aside implications and show me what is actually shown in the movie, because I won't be convinced with Broly destroying things he never destroyed. Is not even a Majin Buu situation since his statement is entirely off screen, not an statement we could take either way but we are blatantly shown what he did, interpretations aside.

 

[AwkguyDB]

@John You obviously don't even remember that special. Goku had fused with Shenron, he wasn't a normal Saiyan anymore. Unless you think Vegeta is still around.
@Adem I never said we would assume they are one? I said that the obvious implication is the movie is one. You can think of them actually evisioning it as 4 galaxies, or the director using the term Toriyama uses and thinking it actually meant quadrant, or a change of decision, or whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that what we see visibly affected is one single galaxy, which again the word in question can mean galaxies... or galaxy. Retroactively changing things due to future when we are showcased Broly's destruction and it doesn't spread farther than a single galaxy is a big no for me, double no because then the whole scaling makes utterly not a shit of sense. Even the "Broly can't be a threat since he won't be alive forever" feels dumb when this is a dude that can go at quadrillions of times the speed of light and can make danmaku levels of ki blasts with ease, not to mention getting stronger and faster ALLL of the while that he does this because LSSJ hacks for life or something.

And don't bring up any Yamauchi statement. It is trash. These statements really don't bring anything valuable, honestly. Even if we took it at face value, if Broly kept going the way he was, he would have destroyed 3 galaxies before turning 100... which is multiple galaxies, surprisingly enough. And no, I am not saying this is how it would have played out, merely that the stats he has now and his behavior in the movie don't in a single way contradict said statement, just the numbers you are hoping to get out of them.

How exactly can we prove that this is not entirety of the Southern Galaxy instead of a Single Galaxy. If Broly only destroyed one single Galaxy in the South Galaxy in a matter of 30 years there is no way that he could be a threat to the Southern Galaxy or any of the other Galaxies. He wouldn't be able to destroy the Southern in his lifetime.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

That one Galaxy could be one of the Billion Galaxies he destroyed,or it could be 1 Giant Galaxy Cluster or something like that, as we know, The Southern Galaxies are 1/4th the Universe and we know Broly destroyed them, and as zamasu wrote: "I don't see the issue with 3-B when we did the same thing with 4-A. That's like saying Broly destroying a galaxy over time is just high 4-C because of how fast he is.", And those Universal statements were about Rssj. Broly Not Lssj. Also in the context of that statement, he meant he could do it in a second or less.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

A simple case of authors once again not understanding the implications of things.

By this same metric how is he a danger to the universe if he'd be near 100 by the time the north quadrant is all that is left? There would be an universe left over, even if much reduced. I doubt the writers even realize how fast Broly actually is by simply making him comparable to Anime Goku with the Kaioshin Realm speed feet.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

This still doesn't change the fact that what we see affected when discussing the damage Broly has done, and that has North Kai calling Goku's ass, is nothing more than a singular galaxy.

Leave aside implications and show me what is actually shown in the movie, because I won't be convinced with Broly destroying things he never destroyed. Is not even a Majin Buu situation since his statement is entirely off screen, not an statement we could take either way but we are blatantly shown what he did, interpretations aside.

No. In the beginning we see a galaxy get completely obliterated in seconds without a single trace left. However during the movie, the South Area is still intact, it's just that large areas were destroyed. This is because the characters ARE IN the South area and we still see some stars. How the hell can they be in a destroyed galaxy? Simple. That's just one of the galaxies that suffered the wrath of Broly.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

A simple case of authors once again not understanding the implications of things.

By this same metric how is he a danger to the universe if he'd be near 100 by the time the north quadrant is all that is left? There would be an universe left over, even if much reduced. I doubt the writers even realize how fast Broly actually is by simply making him comparable to Anime Goku with the Kaioshin Realm speed feet.

So implications >>> statements now? Don't be ridiculous.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So why is one galaxy left somewhat destroyed but every other one as far as we know is completely eliminated to the point of disappearing?

Ugh... Nah, I tried. This is one of those bullshit threads I really don't care about enough because they are a pain in the ass despite how much nonsense they casue. If you get this accepted good effort I guess.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So why is one galaxy left somewhat destroyed but every other one as far as we know is completely eliminated to the point of disappearing?
Ugh... Nah, I tried. This is one of those bullshit threads I really don't care about enough because they are a pain in the ass despite how much nonsense they casue. If you get this accepted good effort I guess.

That's the Galaxy where New planet Vegeta was, so Paragus made him destroy everything except that planet,as Paragus's entire plan was getting Vegeta in that planet and then killing him and he destroyed everything except it so Vegeta doesn't escape.

And Fine, do whatever you want.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

You're literally contradicting yourself. You're saying implications > statements, you're saying that the we should go by the cinematic, which contradicts the story, and you're blatantly ignoring what the North, South, East, and West Quadrants are.

So why is one galaxy left somewhat destroyed but every other one as far as we know is completely eliminated to the point of disappearing?

No one said the entire South quadrant was destroyed, stop strawmanning. He destroyed sectors/large portions of 1/4 of the universe so it makes sense that at least some stars or even Galaxies were intact.

This whole thing is really nitpicking tbh. The opposition is literally "me this doesn't feel right, I feel like the statements are dumb. Let's use weak implications and contradicted cinematics"

 

[AwkguyDB]

What we are given in the movie are very direct statements. On top of which we are given a clear understanding of what Galaxy means in Dragon Ball.

"Úèǵ▓│ Galaxy

A gathering of local planets in the universe. Planets gather and form a nebula, and beyond that, a collection of gathered nebulae is called a galaxy. The four Kaiou who rule over the east, west, south, and north [sections] of the universe actually govern these galaxies. Because the Kami in the Heavenly Realm and the Kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely (obviously not actually infinite) in all the universe, the sections known as the East, West, South, and North Galaxies are denominations that came into use through their duty."

On top of Paragus' statement, we don't need the 3 "threat to the Universe" statements within this movie to justify a 3-B rating with the simple fact that Broly was destroying most of the Southern Galaxy. After Broly completely destroyed the South in it's entirety the North, East and Western Quadrants were next and this was all gonna happen in Broly's life time if left unchecked. Even if we just seen him destroying one Galaxy it is already implied that many other Galaxies within that Quadrant were already wiped out.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Just realized Bojack would scale

 

[LordTracer]

Which further confirms Toei Cell, and therefore Pikkon and everybody base Buu Saga Goku level and up would scale.

I know they already scale, but it's more confirmation.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Which further confirms Toei Cell, and therefore Pikkon and everybody base Buu Saga Goku level and up would scale.
I know they already scale, but it's more confirmation.

But Grade 2 Vegeta wouldn't scale as his Final flash did no damage to Rssj Broly

 

[AwkguyDB]

To be fair Broly's power grows rapidly but also Goku and Gohan were stronger with MSSJ > SSJ Grades and all that jazz.

 

[LordTracer]

Why would Grade 2 Vegeta even be in the question?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

MSSJ Goku > RSSJ Broly, Buu saga Vegeta would surpass that at that point.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Base Vegeta one shit Pui Pui, right? and wasn't the Supreme Kai worried about Pui Pui and thought they might have to jump him?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Base Vegeta one shit Pui Pui, right? and wasn't the Supreme Kai worried about Pui Pui and thought they might have to jump him?

Yes he did shit on Pui Pui.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Base Vegeta one shit Pui Pui, right? and wasn't the Supreme Kai worried about Pui Pui and thought they might have to jump him?

Something like that

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

******* I next to O...

Which is funny because in El Manga Legendario, an official guidebook licensed by Toei, Shin is confirmed to be on Cell Games MSSJ Goku's level.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Meta Cooler and Super Android 13 would scale with this as well

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Question, is base Super Buu (Inside Buu) stronger than Buucolo? Super Saiyan 3 Goku was confident he could beat Buucolo in a fight but not base Super Buu inside his body.