Serge (Chrono Cross) vs Undertaleverse

[Talonmask]

Except that is only his AP, he isn't suddenly higher dimensional, so it still applies.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Also, Asriel's restraints worked on Frisk who is waaaay below Serge, Chrono Cross or not


There is no proof it would work on someone on Serge's level

 

[Talonmask]

Frisk has the same durability as Serge but less AP, so no, Frisk is not all that much below Serge. Seeing as they have the same level of how much they can endure (Frisk technically being more durable due to Determination), there's nothing suggesting it wouldn't work on Serge.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Serge has 2-A endurance, Frisk has 2-B


So no, they don't


And even then, Asriel and Serge are equals in their tiering according to this wiki so even then, nothing suggesting it would overpower Serge casually if hes on par, he could easily fight it


And while both are supposedly equal in speed, Serge still has a DC advantage


Why is Asriel supposedly striking first by restricting him and Serge isn't instantly throwing the Chrono Cross out to win?

 

[Talonmask]

Serge has 2-A endurance, Frisk has 2-B


So no, they don't


And even then, Asriel and Serge are equals in their tiering according to this wiki so even then, nothing suggesting it would overpower Serge casually if hes on par, he could easily fight it


And while both are supposedly equal in speed, Serge still has a DC advantage


Why is Asriel supposedly striking first by restricting him and Serge isn't instantly throwing the Chrono Cross out to win?

Again, you aren't reading. They have the same durability, but Frisk has less AP.

Not likely, Frisk couldn't fight it and they also have no soul resistance, so it's likely that Serge won't be able to either.

Because Angel of Death is automatic with Full Power Asriel? It would already be activated.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Again, you aren't reading. They have the same durability, but Frisk has less AP.

Not likely, Frisk couldn't fight it and they also have no soul resistance, so it's likely that Serge won't be able to either.

Because Angel of Death is automatic with Full Power Asriel? It would already be activated.

How does Frisk scale to Asriel in durability

Asriel was like toying with him the entire time and Frisk only won via feels

Serge is immeasurable in speed, anything he can do is instant


I made this thread thinking it'd be close but now it seems like all these feats for UT hype are just based on one random stat

 

[Talonmask]

Because Frisk survived some of Asriel's blows? And Asriel did eventually go Full Power, which Frisk couldn't do anything but struggle to.

Asriel is Immeasurable, likely Omnipresent.

 

[HousedInEngi]

He went full power but then got shot in the feels


Serge is omnipresent via the Chrono Trigger

 

[Talonmask]

And? He's still affected by Angel of Death, so he won't be doing anything.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Hes literally equal withs Asriel's (going off of this wiki which I barely agree with anymore) in terms of physique, unlike Frisk who was vastly beneath him, he has the DC to challenge the Angel of Death, and I don't see how he can't abuse his vastly superior smarts and reality warping and challenge Asriel in soul manipulation


Really isn't much stopping Serge from lol-soloing

 

[Talonmask]

I'm pretty Destructive Capacity isn't going to help you resist an ability you have no resistance to. Asriel is actually a smart individual, as he's lived out every possibility of Undertale as Flowey and was able to manipulate Frisk into getting everyone together so he could return to his true form, so he has experience.

Except Asriel and Annoying Dog.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Okay if hes struggling, he can use superior DC to overpower it and then blast him


To assume that Asriel holds down every 2-A character is ridiculous

 

[Handsome_Protagonist]

Serge stomps.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

To assume that Asriel holds down every 2-A character is ridiculous

I do agree on this, and I highly doubt he could restrain a High 2-A in the same way, as long as said High 2-A was on a higher level of existence.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Serge stomps.

First, please refrain from using coarse language (I was forced to edit it out).

Second, you must provide reasoning to your vote or else it won't be counted.

 

[Talonmask]

Asriel is At least 2-A in Full Power, so he's stronger than Serge without the Cross.

Why are you assuming because someone has higher attack potency means they can resist an attack they can escape from an attack they have no resistance to? A 3-A with no mental or soul resistance can get brought down by a soul and mind hax user of a much lower tiering.

You are completely disregarding the fact that these are attacks that focus on the soul, and with how the ability works, what's suggesting that he'll even be able to use the Chrono Cross even if he has it?

 

[HousedInEngi]

On par with Serge in terms of physicality if we go by bad stat scaling*


Fixed


You are comparing Frisk and Serge whom are barely comparable


Hax wont matter since they're literally equal in every stat via bad stat scaling except Serge has higher DC and hax that's comparable

 

[Talonmask]

Higher DC via an item that is restricted by Asriel's ability.

The reason Frisk is brought up is because Serge and Frisk can take the same amount of punishment.

Hax does matter, because it's affecting Serge's soul, meaning he won't simply overposwer something he has no means of resisting.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Except both are equal in speed so both can do their thing


Higher DC is more reliant

 

[Talonmask]

Asriel's is automatic in Full Power?

Read my last comment.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Restraining people at any power is an NLF


It's like saying Super Dimentio stomps everyone since the Chaos Hearts negate everything

 

[Talonmask]

I've stated before that it wouldn't restrict Higher-dimensional beings and those who would have a resistance to soul hax, Serge himself isn't 5-D dimensional or he would have High Multiverse+ durability, and could only accomplish a 5-D feat with an item.

Asriel's "At least 2-A" vs. Serge's "2-A". I'm not abusing an NLF.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Asriels restricting movement is a passive effect that happens automatically. Even in the battle where it comes up it's in place not only before the player's move but before they can even select a move, despite the fact that the player always moves first in Undertale... because it's not dependant on taking action, its just an effect asrial has on enemies when hes at full power.

 

[HousedInEngi]

Also, since I forgot about this fight, might as well re-post another thing;


What's stopping Serge from killing Asriel before he goes Hypergod anyways? Hes pretty much way better in every regard and the Chrono Cross seals the deal

 

[Talonmask]

Better in terms of AP? Only through an item, otherwise, Asriel's stronger.

Better in terms of hax? Not really, if Serge has no means of resisting anything Asriel uses.

Better in terms of speed? Says here that he's only MFTL+, and only becomes immeasurable through the use of the Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, whereas Asriel's plain Immeasurable, possibly Omnipresent. So they are either the same speed, with Asriel being possibly Omnipresent, or Serge is speed blitzed.

Okay, so you are assuming Serge would go for the kill straight away and Asriel not be doing the same? It's only fair that they both start at their fullest potential, instead of one starting at a weaker form just so you could try to hand the other a win.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Talon. Well actually, they're equal. Asriel's not stronger.

 

[Talonmask]

@Talon. Well actually, they're equal. Asriel's not stronger.

Serge is equal to base Asriel, you know, the one form that's not trying at all, this battle suggests that the Undertaleverse is at its fullest potential, so why wouldn't Asriel be already trying?

 

[HousedInEngi]

Okay I'm going to be real here, this UT wank is ridiculous


First of all, as I said, no, you cannot use a random stat, it is absolutely incorrect to just instantly see a single stat, one that you only see in a text box


He doesn't even humbly brag about it, it's not said my some smart scientist or something like that, it's just a random stat, it's completely ridiculous to suddenly make a verse jump like that


And multiversal Flowey... yeah, no. Destroying the same timeline of the same universe wouldn't even be universal+, it's of the same universe. It's like if say Frieza in DBZ blew up Earth, they brought it back and then blew it up again; that wouldnt mean he could bust multiple planets (I know Frieza's higher than this, this is just an example)


I also have trouble believing in immeasurable speed since after Asriel quote on quote 'purges the timeline' the background is still there, the areas from before in the game still exist, Frisk's friends are still alive


tl;dr Serge solos without the Cross with literally no trouble and he could probably do it as Radical Dreamers Serge even

 

[Prgreeneyes]

Okay I'm going to be real here, this UT wank is ridiculous

First of all, as I said, no, you cannot use a random stat, it is absolutely incorrect to just instantly see a single stat, one that you only see in a text box


He doesn't even humbly brag about it, it's not said my some smart scientist or something like that, it's just a random stat, it's completely ridiculous to suddenly make a verse jump like that


And multiversal Flowey... yeah, no. Destroying the same timeline of the same universe wouldn't even be universal+, it's of the same universe. It's like if say Frieza in DBZ blew up Earth, they brought it back and then blew it up again; that wouldnt mean he could bust multiple planets (I know Frieza's higher than this, this is just an example)


I also have trouble believing in immeasurable speed since after Asriel quote on quote 'purges the timeline' the background is still there, the areas from before in the game still exist, Frisk's friends are still alive


tl;dr Serge solos without the Cross with literally no trouble and he could probably do it as Radical Dreamers Serge even

This is... unbelievable, have you seen Undertale. All of Frisk friends became part of Asriel, of course they wouldn't disappear.

Also Flowey destroyed MULTIPLE timelines, each save file is a new timeline.

 

[Talonmask]

-snip-

TL;DR: I have a problem with stats that have been discussed on multiple occasions and was really keen on opening up this thread with this character's victory already in mind, not actually expecting any feedback besides "Serge solos. lol"*

If you have a problem with the statistics, ask Azathoth about it, since he was the one that placed them where they are.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Yeah you really shouldn't be voting at all as the OP, let alone making a statement that shows you clearly thought you were setting up a stomp - that constitutes the intention to make a spite thread. The fact that it's actually not a stomp and in fact your favored character might lose doesn't change that you had clearly intended for this to be a spite.

If you have large issues with basically every stat that a character or a verse has, go make a revision thread and have your views scruitinized in a more honest and open way, rather than trying to sneak them into a verse thread format.

 

[HousedInEngi]

I voted since I thought UT's stats were legit before looking into them


Then I looked into it and was like "Wait what"

 

[Aparajita]

Sans is no expect in Time Travel or Time in general.

There's also inconsistecies through the series, characters remember the "alternative" timelines, including Characters like Sans and Toriel who don't have the ability to SAVE and LOAD.

The way it sounds, they're affecting a single timeline, splintered.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Sans is hinted at being a scientist who has experimented with time travel many times in the series, and even himself has some limited space time manipulation abilites such as teleportation of himself and of his enemy and the ability to tell when someone has been LOADing.

 

[Verivici]

Where was it stated that Flowey actually affected the timelines in his battle? All he did was SAVE and LOAD several timelines, which doesn't give him free control over them.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Where was it stated that Flowey actually affected the timelines in his battle? All he did was SAVE and LOAD several timelines, which doesn't give him free control over them.

He didn't just affect them. He actually directly created and had access to them. He'd kind of have to since he did destroy the current timeline.

 

[Verivici]

How do we know that he had the ability to freely manipulate them, as opposed to just being able to switch between them and reset them? I mean, he was able to regenerate his whole HP bar by resetting to an eariler state, which shouldn't have been possible if he actually transcended the neccesity of a timeline. I'm kinda confused

 

[Aparajita]

I mean, he was able to regenerate his whole HP bar by resetting to an eariler state, which shouldn't have been possible if he actually transcended the neccesity of a timeline. I'm kinda confused

Shouldn't his hp bar have never moved, why would it need to "regenerate" if it was a different timeline?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

How do we know that he had the ability to freely manipulate them, as opposed to just being able to switch between them and reset them? I mean, he was able to regenerate his whole HP bar by resetting to an eariler state, which shouldn't have been possible if he actually transcended the neccesity of a timeline. I'm kinda confused

Higher-dimensional time is a thing, you know. Remember that "Flowey World" isn't part of the traditional game world, and instead exists in its place after Flowey wrecks everything.

 

[Cropfist]

Serge clears with hax resistances and higher AP.