Sebas Tian vs. Monkey D. Luffy

[Ricsi-viragosi]

...Even being stunned or put off or scared means he loses, since Sebas just needs to hit him once. Sebas can just play a slow dodge game at a range since he's far more experienced, and once he gets close enough, he fears, Luffy resists just enough to not die, and then he gets mind haxed.

Not if they are not right next to each other, no.

Doean't this luffy have speed amping? Dodging would be... hard regardless due to how he attacks.

 

[Moritzva]

Sebas has some level of stat amp as well. Plus, he could switch to dragon form, rush forward and take some damage, then use fear and kill. Dragon form is durable and fast enough to accomplish this, and Luffy doesn't have a tendency to see hax coming.

 

[The_Calaca]

@Dargoo

High 7-A actually. Just a little correction.

@PixelKirby

Again, experience means nothing against Luffy. All of his enemies are far more experienced than him and he always win.

For not saying that Luffy can spam rapidfire attacks even with speed equal like Gomu Gomu no Gattling. The 'AoE' is pretty good and Sebas'd have troubles against it.

Sebas needs to get close but Luffy's aggresive kind of fighter and he'll start attacking right of the bat.

But I won't say anymore. My vote still stands for Luffy.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Is it speed amp tough? And rushing someone with this amount of advantage would simply have him slapped back away into range again.

Luffy can read intentions of people, much like Eneru, and he would know he's about to get rushed. This would allow him to just swat him away so that he can't get close enough.

I'm voting luffy too

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, just to point out, I feel like Sebas' mid-low healing actually applies here as Luffy mostly uses blunt force attacks.

 

[The_Calaca]

At first Luffy started at G3 but G4 blitzes. Now G2 is the only way to fight (despite G4 not being strong enough to one-shot but he'll blitz if speed is equal to anything but G4).

 

[Moritzva]

Yea, Sebas's healing means he can play exceptionally defensive, dodge a lot of attacks and heal what hits, and just wait for the time to attack. Luffy doesn't have much of a way past his healing besides blitzing, but if he gets close, fear + hax ends it again. All Sebas needs to do is find the right moment, fling forward in dragon mode, then win.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The longer the battle goes on hte harder luffy blitzes. Pretty sure he will eventually keep slapping him around faster than he can heal, let alone attack.

 

[Moritzva]

Sebas is skillful and fast enough to play things defensively and Luffy is far away. I think he'll be fine.

 

[The_Calaca]

Luffy knows how to fight people with more skill than Sebas and how to play ranged game.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dude, the skill managed to get katakuri off guard, and he has a skill advantage over people with decades of combat expoerience and precognition. And luffy has it too, so he can adjust attack trajectories accordingly.


Seriously, the longer the fight takes the harder he'll be getting hit by snakeman.

 

[The_Calaca]

Snakeman is restricted. Only G2 Luffy.

 

[Moritzva]

Beating people with plenty of combat experience does not mean Sebas is a doofus just standing around and getting hit.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Snakeman is restricted. Only G2 Luffy.

Pretty sure that is also a speed amp.

And the OP litirally states otherwise, so until updated that isn't a thing.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Snakeman is restricted. Only G2 Luffy.

I just said Luffy starts in Boundman and Gear fourth.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Beating people with plenty of combat experience does not mean Sebas is a doofus just standing around and getting hit.

No, but when your enemy knows where you want to dodge and has speed amps it doesn't matter if your a doofus or not.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Luffy can speed amp within Gear Fourth? I thought he could only do that by moving up gears. He starts in Gear fourth with speed Equalized, peeps.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Luffy can speed amp within Gear Fourth? I thought he could only do that by moving up gears. He starts in Gear fourth with speed Equalized, peeps.

He can. It's the snakemans shtich.

And snakeman is faster than his other forms regardless.

 

[The_Calaca]

Oh, misread that.

Now Luffy has the AP advantage aswell. Sebas won't rush between homing attacks (Culverin) 3-4x stronger than him from an opponent who outranges him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

He can. It's the snakemans shtich.

And snakeman is faster than his other forms regardless.

He starts out in Boundman here, though. Would his first move be to switch into snakeman?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not sure if his first, but he probably wouldn't stay in it for long, especially if the enemy tries to keep dodging his attacks.

 

[The_Calaca]

It's not necessary. Even if speed is equalized Boundman has homing attacks, far better range and is somewhat stronger than Snakeman.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Then I feel like Sebas could win a long battle given dura amping, his dragon form, and his regen.

 

[The_Calaca]

His dragon form it's still 3x weaker. And even if he flies Luffy can do it too.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dura amping won't really get him to close the AP difference much, his dragon form would definitly have luffy just pummel him with attacks, and his regen will work only for so much. Especially with the difference in AP, a good hit to the neck or head could snap his spine.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

"Especially with the difference in AP"

Last time I checked, buff people four times stronger than me aren't casual bone breakers or neck snappers. It takes a larger AP gap before attacks can break bones

 

[Moritzva]

Hm. I'll let the OP settle on the exact forms and conditions of the fight (I don't think Dargoo knew much of that) before controbuting further. Will it stay as it is, or will Luffy be moved down a key again?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

A well-placed hit to the head by someone equal to you can and will break your neck, give you a concussion and all kinds of nasty stuff.

 

[Moritzva]

If you are a regular human yes, possibly.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's certainly uncommon; you don't see many fistfights end in broken bones unless weapons are involved or one or both combantants know martial arts and grappling techniques, which even then use positions that specifically take less energy to break bones.

Most of Luffy's attacks would leave bruises at most, which Sebas can heal from with his Ki. The gap shouldn't stay at 3.5x when Sebas amps up, and while I can't say how much it will close, it will at least allow Sebas a good chance at fighting Luffy until Luffy is exhausting himself in Boundman and executing a palm to the head.

And I'm not saying Sebas wins. I feel like it's more likely Luffy might get a good injury in the early-mid battle. I'm just saying this isn't desisive or a stomp.

What's the vote count right now?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Wait, Luffy doesn't have the AP advantage and Sebas is solidly in 6-C.

I forgot that the freezing feat was re-calced and accepted as 15 gigatons here:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/304156

How far above Luffy does that place Sebas?

That also invalidates previous votes as they assumed Luffy had an AP advantage he didn't.

Luffy also ain't breaking any bones any time soon, so Sebas should just outlast him with regen.

 

[The_Calaca]

Being Luffy 3x baseline he's 13.9GT. So the AP diff is 1.08x. Like nothing.

Anyway if Sebas speed amps and he's stronger then Luffy still wins. Like Katakuri (but not at that level) stopped Luffy many times Luffy could do the same.

BTW that thread is two years old. Is it even relevant? It could be rejected long time ago.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Anyway if Sebas speed amps and he's stronger then Luffy still wins. Like Katakuri (but not at that level) stopped Luffy many times Luffy could do the same.

BTW that thread is two years old. Is it even relevant? It could be rejected long time ago.

Can you tell me where it was rejected? Just because something was accepted a while ago doesn't automatically invalidate it. If you think it's faulty go and make a revision thread yourself.

It's because Sebas can amp his dura and strength to a point where Luffy would have trouble harming him. If he can take out two other 15 GT characters without much trouble in his dragon form, what does that say about Luffy?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, Sebas can sense where Luffy's attacks would come from with his Extrasensory perception, can surround himself with spikes of ice to fend off melee attacks, and a single attack to Luffy's head wins him the match.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If Sebas does have that level of AP, he sould be able to take this fra.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Sebas - 1 (Ricsi)

Luffy - 0

 

[The_Calaca]

@Dargoo

What I asked if that value is still valid. Revisions happens all the time. It could have been rejected.

And at first people were scaling characters to 3.6 gigatons for some reason so I wouldn't be surprised if that feat got downgraded.

Right now I'll retract my vote (but you shouldn't do that by yourself since my reasoning relies in more than AP so it should be still valid).

The AP difference is nearly unexistent tho. If that feat is something casual and Sebas scales to that w/o amps then I'll concede a bigger AP advantage.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

What I asked if that value is still valid. Revisions happens all the time. It could have been rejected.

The AP difference is nearly unexistent tho. If that feat is something casual and Sebas scales to that w/o amps then I'll concede a bigger AP advantage.

It is still valid, especially considering it was made to invalidate another calc. I say again, tell me where here it was invalidated if that's your claim, or, if you find issue with it, make a thread of your own.

Sebas scales to Super-Tier spells without amps, with Dragon form it was said he could take out two other 15 GT characters without much difficulty. That doesn't take into account his dura amping with Iron Skin.

 

[The_Calaca]

Again, I'm not claiming it's invalid. I'm asking if it's still valid given the time has passed since then.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yes, as no thread has been made since challenging it.

Well, technically I claimed the feat was Environmental Destruction, but that was rejected.