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SCP-001 (S. Andrew Swann's Proposal) Upgrade

Well, SCP-2350s page seems to imply its at least 4-D so SCP-001 may be at least High 2-A in return.

This seems legit to me, though I remember someone trying to do something similar to this in the past and it got denied for some reason.
 
Hmmm, it is plausible, although it could be referring to the fact that the main SCP universe is 3-D, and not being including the 4-D aspect of it, though unlikely.
 
Wasn't there just a thread about how we can't scale SCPs to stories involving other SCPs if said other SCPs have never been featured in a story together?
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Wasn't there just a thread about how we can't scale SCPs to stories involving other SCPs if said other SCPs have never been featured in a story together?
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We just did earlier. yes
 
001 is supposed to be what created the other SCPs, but in its own stories and logs, it has never shown to be beyond universal scale, and its destruction was stated to lead to the universe's complete destruction. I'm fairly certain there are other SCPs that are supposed to be like the verse's "God", but we cannot scale them to each other, since they have never appeared in a story, together.
 
Does anyone have the link to the previous thread regarding the scaling of the SCPs? I'm curious to see why we can't scale SCPs to each other, even though they never appeared in the same story together.

I thought all the stories involving the SCPs would be held within the entirely of the SCP verse, meaning that all the stories involved in that series should be canon regardless?
 
Honestly the only ones that were scaled to each other were ones who fought 682, whos durability kinda varies...
 
Lina Shields said:
Does anyone have the link to the previous thread regarding the scaling of the SCPs? I'm curious to see why we can't scale SCPs to each other, even though they never appeared in the same story together.
I thought all the stories involving the SCPs would be held within the entirely of the SCP verse, meaning that all the stories involved in that series should be canon regardless?
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The same reason we can't scale everyone in Marvel and DC to everyone else. It's hundreds of stories written by hundreds of writers, and oftentimes interpretations of characters, especially ones meant to be mysterious, vastly differ.
 
The thing is that 001 is meant to be the ultimate entity, as in it's mostly accepted that whatever 001 there is, it is THE one. So it's not right to compare it to random SCPs like that.

Also the scale of destruction end at Universe so I doubt it means it's limited to Low 2-C.
 
It's also probably important to note that 001 is said to likely be susceptible to memetic agents, the same that work on regular people, because despite all its power, it is technically still a group of people. However, the reason this cannot be tested is because the foundation is worried that there is a chance exterminating or permanently incapacitating 001 would lead to a ZK Reality Failure event, which would result in the destruction of the universe itself. This would not be possible if the universe was truly fiction to 001, which it isn't. 001 can alter the universe in the same way one would alter a work of fiction, but is still believed to be vulnerable to things within said universe.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
The thing is that 001 is meant to be the ultimate entity, as in it's mostly accepted that whatever 001 there is, it is THE one. So it's not right to compare it to random SCPs like that.
Also the scale of destruction end at Universe so I doubt it means it's limited to Low 2-C.
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It's also composed of multiple humans who the foundation believes could be killed or incapacitated via memetic agents, but they don't want to risk it if there's a non-zero percent chance of a ZK Reality Failure.
 
Memetic agents are IIRC more or less mind-hax, so you can't exactly rate their powers this way. Even if a picture is simply 2D, if it has a hypnosic effect you will still be affected.

Also it's not because that it's linked to the universe that it is still "in it".
 
Something that is fictional to you cannot kill you. That is not how something being fictional works. If a fictional being tried to transmit fictional poison to you, it would have no effect. 001 being able to be killed by things in the universe contradicts it seeing the universe as fiction, which is never stated. Again, altering the universe like fiction and seeing it as literally fiction are very different, and 001 is only said to be a universal-scale reality warper in its logs.
 
As I said it's a visual effect. It's not a direct attack, but a visual thing that kills you via mindfuck.

Which is something that could be done on a simple 2D plane to us.
 
Memes are not strictly visual. They are information based. But that is besides the point, since something memetic still must be planted by something in your general plane of existence. A work of fiction could not create a meme which would then kill you. There had to be someone to first create the work of fiction which contained that meme, since the fiction itself is incapable. These memetic effects are being created by the foundation, how they are transferred is irrelevant.
 
"Memetics deals with information transfer, specifically cultural information in society. The basic idea is to conflate the exchange of information between people with genetic material, to track the mutation of ideas as they are transmitted from one person to the next in the way you could track viral transmissions and mutations.

Meme : Memetics :: Gene : Genetics

Memetics does NOT refer to telepathy, ESP or any imaginary psychic mental magic. These words are memetic, and if you understand them then they are having a completely ordinary memetic effect on you.

Memetics in regards to SCP objects tends to focus on the impossible rather than the mundane, regarding effects that are transmitted via information. In general, the effects themselves should remain in the realm of information. A memetic SCP would be more likely to be a phrase that makes you think you have wings as opposed to a phrase that makes you actually grow a pair of wings. If you write up magic words that make people grow wings, it should be described as something other than memetic.

Memetic SCPs do not emanate auras or project beams. They are SCPs which involve ideas and symbols which trigger a response in those who understand them."

- From Understanding Memetics
 
Yeah sorry i posted that right after yours but didnt see your response. But yeah, its meant to be a general, but in-depth, description of the memetics used by the Foundation as well as the nature of the powers of memetic SCPs.
 
Are we having a serious debates with memes? We are apparently.

Well it depends how the fiction was created. If we take the writer -> fiction relationship to the maximum, an author couldn't possible create every single action in a fiction. Only the important parts, yet obviously the SCP verse exists outside of what has been written, so they can still act outside 001's written story. Not like 001 couldn't just write it out of existence if it learns about it happening. Remember, that was said theorically, that if they theorically did it ZK shit will happen but that didn't mean they could pull it before being stopped or smth.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Are we having a serious debates with memes? We are apparently.
Well it depends how the fiction was created. If we take the writer -> fiction relationship to the maximum, an author couldn't possible create every single action in a fiction. Only the important parts, yet obviously the SCP verse exists outside of what has been written, so they can still act outside 001's written story. Not like 001 couldn't just write it out of existence if it learns about it happening. Remember, that was said theorically, that if they theorically did it ZK shit will happen but that didn't mean they could pull it before being stopped or smth.
Click to expand...
Yes, 001 didn't write everything in the SCP verse.

Because it's not the writer.

SCP-001 is a collection of individuals who, aside from their powers, appear to be human and have been revealed to have the exact same cognitive function as regular humans. The only difference is that they can rewrite the universe itself, which is insanely impressive, but does nothing for their durability or standing on some kind of dimensional scale.

In the original log, 001 is likened to being pretty much an infinitely greater 140, because whereas 140 can rewrite the history of a whole civilization in a way that could drastically affect the world and future wars, 001 can rewrite the universe itself. This however does not mean the civilization 140 alters is fictional to it. 140 is, for all intents and purposes, still a physical book with these dangerous and anomalous properties, similar to how 001 is a group of beings mentally indistinguishable from humans with similar powers, but on a much greater scale.
 
If they were literal simple humans, the universe wouldn't depend on them, nor would the only way of killing them would be of using memes. And afaik, they have control over time, capable of literally retconning things out of existence. They would be quite affected by it if they were normal humans.
 
The entry quite clearly states that they have cognitive functions exactly the same as humans, with their powers being what makes the difference. It's also not even a fact that the universe depends on them. The foundation simply doesn't know if killing them will destroy the universe, since they seem to have such great control over it, that they don't want to risk it unless there is no other option.
 
Not sure if that means they are literally humans living among them. They could just be biological humans living on a higher plane.

Considering their weaponry, I'd be easy to blitze them before anything bad happen. If they were simple reality warpers with Human dura it would be easy to destroy them without harm.
 
Biological humans living on a higher plane are still biological humans. I'm also not sure how the foundation would have monitored their brainwaves if they lived outside the universe.

That would be a terrible idea. It would be equivalent to the foundation attempting to go out in public and assassinate people. Not to mention this could easily alert 001 to the fact the foundation wants them gone, in which case 001 could just write them out of history in the blink of an eye. With memetic effects, the foundation can kill them without them even knowing it. However, the reason they don't do this is because they never risk any scenario with an above 0% chance of ZK Reality Failure, no matter how small.
 
Did they? Pretty sure they just monitered their changes.

My point is that if they were physical humans, Memes wouldn't really be the first thing to pop out of their mind to kill them.
 
Yes, they monitored their cognitive patterns.

"Conclusions are that SCP-001 consists of multiple entities showing cognitive patterns that are indistinguishable from human, and that these entities are therefore susceptible to memetic effects."

You can't do that to something that is inherently higher-dimensional, and even if you did, the result would not be a perfectly human thought process.

Again, I'm pretty sure it is. The foundation is smart. Attempting to just straight up murder someone who can literally change the history of the universe on a whim would be idiotic and have an extremely high fail rate. Killing them with something they wouldn't even notice is magnitudes more logical, and poses much less risk. The only risk in that scenario is the same in any scenario in which 001 is destroyed; they don't know what will happen, which makes doing so not an option unless absolutely necessary, or more information comes to light.
 
My biological science is as shit as my dating skills but as far as I know you don't need the brainwaves to do it. Just analyzing their behaviors and seeing it is pretty human like, they could come to the same conclusion.

Pretty sure there are many more SCPs that could do a similar job, if not better. Their wording also makes it seem like it's the only way. Also wouldn't the fact that they are "writers" means that they can't do much while not writing?
 
They could come to the conclusion of "these things act very human". It's virtually impossible to determine if something possesses cognitive thought process literally indistinguishable from humans solely from monitoring what an entity does. Not to mention if the foundation already knows how to mean it to death by the time the addendum was added, they almost certainly at least have some idea of where it is.

Pretty sure not, unless you're talking about a memetic SCP. The foundation found out they could theoretically kill 001 without;

a) attempting to attack it head-on, which would be stupid since it's a universal reality warper composed of multiple individuals.

b) sending dangerous SCPs out into the world without any guarantee it would work.

c) letting 001 know of their plans, an idea that was deemed so dangerous, the O5 staff who have the decryption key for the files on how to deal with 001 only have part of the key, each.

The foundation has literally no more effective and safe way of killing something with exactly human cognitive activity than simply using memetic agents on it, killing it without it ever even knowing it was in danger. However, even this is deemed unsafe, since as I have stated multiple times, they don't know what will happen if 001 is killed.
 
Personally I think it's pretty clear this iteration of SCP-001 is referring to us, the creators of the SCP Foundation, as the entity in cause as editors of the wiki (and by consequence the entire verse), so I'd say it is above everything (even 2480). True that there is other SCP objects that are probably likened to very powerful entities that could possibly be described as "Gods", but 001 is supposed to be special anyways, that's why there is no canon 001. The whole "memetic agents can affect SCP-001" is an obvious gag loophole placed into the story resulting from cross-referencing the SCP database as we, the editors, see it, and the SCP database in-universe. Naturally, Protocol ZK-001-Alpha could never be implemented if we, the editors, never decided for it to be so. Reading the entire article makes all of this pretty clear, IMO.
 
After reading "Reality - Fiction Interaction", I really do think this version of SCP-001 is special because the whole purpose of its document is to showcase that interaction. It's similar to an "author avatar", but with more blurs on the lines, more "realistic".
 
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