Scaling Pikachu

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is a topic that has been coming up often, but no one ever made a content revision thread about it. I think Pikachu should scale to the Magnemite line, likely Magneton itself. Now I know the argument that normally comes up. "We don't normally scale non-legendary Pokemon." I understand that. But here's the thing. Pokemon (anime) kind of feeds off the monster of the week trope. If a 'mon defeats another 'mon, they are probably never gonna see each other again. Evidenced when Pikachu fought Latios, Tyranitar, Lucario, Raichu, etc. But Pikachu has literally fought DOZENS of members of the Magnemite family, and hasn't ever lost.

First time was what gives him his current speed, when he beat Jasmine's Magnemite head on, with Quick Attack, I believe. Nothing wrong there. Second time was with Wattson. Now I know, Pikachu was supercharged. While true, the supercharging only allowed Pikachu to one-shot it. Ash was still comfortable at Pikachu fighting it anyway. And finally, the main one, during the Giratina movie. He held his own (alongside Shaymin) against a whole army of Magnemite, Magneton, and one Magnezone. Multiple times at that.

Also, reasons why it's not an outlier:

• Pikachu already has an 8-A feat.
• KE (without calc stacking or breaking the new KE rules) of Pikachu gets CB+.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Well its most likely due to chance and not actual consistency but i'm not against it since at the end of the day its still consistent.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Scale Pikachu to the Magnemites, but I think we should scale both to the starters of Gen I.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Otomos]

...Why does this make me want a page for Ash Ketchum? He has little to do with this, but for some reason, i want one made for him.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I also agree with the scaling.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agree with this also.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

It depens.


If you mean for key of anime pikachu, it should scale from his fight agaisnt Mega Lucario

Game Pikachu should scale from Pokedex feat (8-C+)

Manga could scale from Magnites I think

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Well, Pikachu has City Block feats, plus he effortlessly one-shot a building in that Hoopa movie iirc so its not an inconsistency or anything. "At least 8-C/8-B, likely 8-A" should work.

 

[Gemmysaur]

@Aiden: Why Mega Lucario?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Didn't Ash's Pikachu matched a Mega Lucario in X&Y?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Dunno, was it more than once? Pikachu tends to fight a lot of one-off opponents.

 

[Cropfist]

Pikachu also fought a Dragonite at one point.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Just commenting so I can get the thread notifications...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You do know there is a "Follow" button for that, right @Peter

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Yeah, but I'm on mobile and and my iPhone doesn't want to scroll correctly today..

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Ah, alright.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bump

 

[Otomos]

It is true that Pikachu was able to beat Mega Lucario in the anime, but to be fair it was after the rest of Ash's team had fought it. Even then, Pikachu looked as if he had just barely won that fight.

Still, in Ash's battle against Alain, Pikachu was able to take down two pseudo-legendary pokemon, Tyranitar and Metagross.

 

[Unclechairman]

What happened to the idea of composite profiles? Weren't all, or almost all of the Pokemon profiles composite at one point?

For non-legendary Pokemon, you'd be hard-pressed to find any notable feats for them in the main games themselves aside from the Pokedex descriptions.

I'm in the dark as to what Magneton did that Pikachu scales to, but I'm fine with scaling Ash's Pikachu specifically, considering that Magneton ranks among the least impressive things Ash's Pikachu has taken on, as it has fought legendaries on equal footing. The reason I say Ash's Pikachu specifically is because these feats make me think Ash's Pikachu is just uniquely strong among it's species, especially considering Pikachu is generally among the weakest Electric-types (this last part is also why I'm iffy on scaling it to other Electric-types just because they're Electric-types. Pokemon can be the same type and still have vast differences in power).

 

[SomebodyData]

I agree with the scaling to Magnemite, although only for the two above reasons in the op and like how Cal stated, Pikachu has been on par with Magnemite often. The last one sounds far too riddled with logical fallacies to even be included in the thread (just something you should probably remove)

(Off-topic) That said, this isn't exactly the most appropriate thread to ask, shouldn't we add keys for Pikachu and then for the last key make a composite? I say this because of the varying stats and the fact that a solely composite Pikachu may become an issue later on for scaling.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Removed it. Only there for a rule of threes vibe, which apparently I don't need. Now I'm just waiting for Ant to agree, to see if I could make the changes.

 

[Unclechairman]

SomebodyStupid, are you replying to my post or the original post?

 

[Antvasima]

I am afraid that I do not understand Pokemon or its scaling well, so I am the wrong person to evaluate this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Rep. that's not an insult. That literally used to be SD's name here.

 

[Reppuzan]

Well, my bad.

But back to the main topic I guess...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Is everyone okay with me making an executive decision on Pikachu's composite profile? We'll cross tabbers when we get there.

 

[Unclechairman]

SomebodyStupid was his original username. He changed it out of the near-limitless potential for jokes, which I found amusing. I did not intend to insult him; it was more of a playful joke than anything else. If he really hates it that much, though, I suppose I'll stop.

As for composite Pikachu tab, I'm not entirely in agreement with it, as like I said, I think Ash's Pikachu is simply unique among it's kind, and scaling every other Pikachu to it would be missing the point.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I agree with adding an Ash's Pikachu tab. Scaling it off of Mega Lucario also seems like it could work, considering he's fought Pokemon like Charizard, Dragonite, I think Tyranitar and so on.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Then Pikachu's game stats' justifications will change


So, 8-C Game Pikachu, 8-A Manga Pikachu and High 7-C Ash Pikachu?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Seems about right.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Arent we still scaling eevee to pikachu.

 

[SomebodyData]

@ Uncle nah. Also, I changed it because SomebodyStupid isn't exactly the most formal of names (I know, Internet, I just like a more formal name)

@ Aiden I think thats pretty good, although where does the High 7-C come from?

@ Radical I think so, well at least game Pikachu

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't think that we should have different tabbers for Pikachu. Especially if we start scaling to people he's defeated in a one-off... I just think 8-A+ is acceptable.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well we wouldn't scale Pikachu to Pokemon he defeated in a one-off unless said one-off shows consistently on par, albeit I don't think thats the main point. There is no real harm in putting in more keys, only benefits like when you consider that Eevee only rivals Game Pikachu (8-C) with the reasoning of "Rival to Game Pikachu", but then someone goes to the page and only sees 8-A Pikachu, then said person is gonna get confused.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I don't think that we should have different tabbers for Pikachu. Especially if we start scaling to people he's defeated in a one-off... I just think 8-A+ is acceptable.

That's would be really problematic.

I mean, even look at Pikachu's profile, the justification for his ST and Durability are from Ash's Pikachu (Also, Lucario's profile should clarify that his stats are from Anime Lucario)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

To be fair, Manga Pikachu has durability feats in tier 7. So Ash's Pikachu isn't the only feat possessing Pikachu.

Also, Lucario is featless in the games. Not sure about manga though.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

1) Proofs?

2) Maybe, but stills, it is a calc for Anime Lucario, and that should be clarify

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Red's Pikachu tanked a Hyper Beam from Lance's Dragonair, and that same Dragonair blew up Vermillion City with the same attack

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So here is what I think. Ash's pikachu should in fact be scaled differently. But only if it has fought certain pokemon consistently. For example scaling pikachu to Latios is a big NO. But scaling to a pokemon like Mega Lucario should be fine as Pikachu has fought many Lucario and other much stronger pokemon such as Charizard and such. So I say tier 7 Ash Pikachu is perfectly fine if the pokemon Pikachu has defeated is okay to be scaled to such as Magnemite, Lucario and Dragonite(possibly).