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I prefer the scientific term "yeeting feats"
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Scaling Lifting Strength to Catching Punches
- Thread starter Sir_Ovens
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RWBY: Paladin Punch 2.0
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Well, a lot has happened in a short time.
To get back on track: What is the general consensus on scaling lifting strength to the striking strength of others?
Do we feel it is an accurate judge of LS or no.
To get back on track: What is the general consensus on scaling lifting strength to the striking strength of others?
Do we feel it is an accurate judge of LS or no.
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So catching a giant's punch should scale to your LS. I think no one would argue against that and I personally agree.
But should catching a 9-A character's punch make you Class M is the bigger question. That was the basis for this thread after all.
But should catching a 9-A character's punch make you Class M is the bigger question. That was the basis for this thread after all.
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If siad 9-A character has M ls and the Catcher showd signs of force or pushing against the fist? Absolutely yeah
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For the first part, yeah, a giant character's punch would definitely scale to LS, striking strength and dura.
For the second part, Again, you would need to calculate the mass of the object punching you first, then you'd need to figure out its acceleration (Or rather, deceleration since you're either slowing it down or stopping it within a shown timeframe). We can't just say a 9-A's punch automatically equates to Class M unless the 9-A has Class M lifting feats like lifting massive ships or buildings and some such.
then you multiply the deceleration with the mass to get your force value in newtons which you then convert to kgf for LS.
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Yeah, pretty much this. We wouldn't assume that the 9-A's punch is automatically Class M unless they had prior lifting feats like for example some Class M feats involving lifting massive ships, buildings and other stuff.
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Very well.
Does anyone else have any comments or disagreements with the current logic?
Does anyone else have any comments or disagreements with the current logic?
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Izuku crushed a rock by applying forces in an enveloping manner where he uses his hands to cover the rock and then apply pressure on it until it broke (Same stuff like Superman crushing diamonds), the Class M of the mech was from exerting force in one horizontal direction, and was later corrected by Weekly to be Class 100 after using the proper force= mass times acceleration formula where I told him to figure out the mass of the metal arm, figure out its deceleration and then multiply the mass with the deceleration value.
Agnaa
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Yes, but I already provided most of it.
where I told him to figure out the mass of the metal arm, figure out its deceleration and then multiply the mass with the deceleration value.
I find it intriguing that this sort of thing is almost exactly the same thing as KE (just using acceleration instead of velocity), yet it sounds like y'all are planning to use it without the myriad of checks and balances we have for that sort of thing.
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By that logic throwing feats might as well be discarded.
Agnaa
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Maybe not all of them, but some standards should be applied. Maybe it should only be done for objects that would require superhuman strength to be lifted in the first place, and/or the verse should have other LS feats around the same level that don't come from throwing/punching.
Hell, is there any reason why LS can be given for a character punching (by using the mass of their arm and its acceleration) but not for them running (using the mass of their body/legs and its acceleration)?
Hell, is there any reason why LS can be given for a character punching (by using the mass of their arm and its acceleration) but not for them running (using the mass of their body/legs and its acceleration)?
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Plenty of giant monsters are given lifting strength ratings based entirely on their size, like the Mother Snake
XSOULOFCINDERX
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You mean like almost every Godzilla ever?
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Why wouldn't hurling big objects great distances count as LS tho?
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I know, I was asking Agnaa why we wouldn't do that. I find it absurd to not use such feats of hurling massive objects as LS via using the force= mass times acceleration formula TBH. Same in the case of using deceleration to figure out the strength required to bring a car/train to a screeching halt. At the very least they'd definitely scale close to the car/train's mass if they stopped it by pushing against it near-instantaneously.
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Plenty of giant monsters are given lifting strength ratings based entirely on their size, like the Mother Snake
Come on man, can you really not see the difference between giving LS based purely on their mass, and giving LS based on "Well this normal human can accelerate to 100,000 m/s in 0.01 seconds, so they get Class M lifting strength."
Why wouldn't hurling big objects great distances count as LS tho?
What the heck, I said "Maybe LS feats should only be given for hurling big objects", and your response is "Why wouldn't hurling big objects count?"
Come on man, can you really not see the difference between giving LS based purely on their mass, and giving LS based on "Well this normal human can accelerate to 100,000 m/s in 0.01 seconds, so they get Class M lifting strength."
Why wouldn't hurling big objects great distances count as LS tho?
What the heck, I said "Maybe LS feats should only be given for hurling big objects", and your response is "Why wouldn't hurling big objects count?"
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At the very least they'd definitely scale close to the car/train's mass if they stopped it by pushing against it near-instantaneously.
Like I explained earlier, that's not how F=MA works. If you stop something instantaneously, you scale far above its mass. The closer to literally instant it is, the closer the answer crawls towards being infinite.
Like I explained earlier, that's not how F=MA works. If you stop something instantaneously, you scale far above its mass. The closer to literally instant it is, the closer the answer crawls towards being infinite.
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We can't just cast out these feats either, especially if it takes merely a second to bring them to a screeching halt.
Also, just as an example, stopping a 1.5 ton car charging towards you at 25 mph within half a second would only wield a kgf value just about twice as much as the car's mass itself.
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Yeah, I explained my stance on this earlier and you agreed with me, so why are you going back to that if that's not where we disagree?
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Acceleration based LS isn't allowed because every universe ever ignores drag for super speed.
If someone said that then you're totally right that we would never allow that.
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Acceleration requiring force has nothing to do with drag, idk where you got that from.
Anyway, does that mean y'all wouldn't be fine with one human catching a punch from another human at an insane speed counting as LS?
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If "Another human" has an arm weighing in over a full tonne, why not? They'd still scale to stopping the arm's mass if they don't get pushed back by it much.
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I stated that I only agreed with the part where you said that LS should be fine if it involved slowing massive objects down or stopping them by pushing against them in a wrestling fashion.
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No. At least no unless that universe is shown to take into account momentum.
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If "Another human" has an arm weighing in over a full tonne, why not?
In what world does a human's arm weigh over a tonne?
I stated that I only agreed with the part where you said that LS should be fine if it involved slowing massive objects down or stopping them by pushing against them in a wrestling fashion.
That's what I meant you agreed with. We agree about stopping a train, so why keep bringing it up?
They'd still scale to stopping the arm's mass if they don't get pushed back by it much.
Why do you keep saying "they'd scale to the mass"? F=MA, and we rate LS by force, you can't do it with mass alone. That's why we revised it to be about mass in the first place.
In what world does a human's arm weigh over a tonne?
I stated that I only agreed with the part where you said that LS should be fine if it involved slowing massive objects down or stopping them by pushing against them in a wrestling fashion.
That's what I meant you agreed with. We agree about stopping a train, so why keep bringing it up?
They'd still scale to stopping the arm's mass if they don't get pushed back by it much.
Why do you keep saying "they'd scale to the mass"? F=MA, and we rate LS by force, you can't do it with mass alone. That's why we revised it to be about mass in the first place.
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I was talking about a fictional hypothetical human where he increased his arm mass with magic or whatever.
As for the second and third point, you had qualms about scaling to the train's mass if it was slowed down or stopped within a second or less due to the inflation stuff. I thought we agreed to scale to the vehicle's mass if they showed stopping it dead in its tracks, but what happens if there is a timeframe involved? Do we ignore the timeframe and just go with the mass or go with the f= ma formula which might inflate or downgrade the total LS required for the feat?
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As I recall, the LS vs. AP or SP page makes the distinction based on implied number of muscle groups involved in the feat (are you using just your arm, or both arms, your back, and legs to block/push?) and also timescale.
Based on that, I'm sure there are plenty of size difference throwing and blocking feats that could be argued for LS. KLOL has already provided the basic scientific arguments for this.
The basis for certain blocking and throwing feats scaling to LS already exists in the site's framework imo.
Based on that, I'm sure there are plenty of size difference throwing and blocking feats that could be argued for LS. KLOL has already provided the basic scientific arguments for this.
The basis for certain blocking and throwing feats scaling to LS already exists in the site's framework imo.
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So what are the conclusions here so far, have you found an official instruction page that clarifies this, and should I call any senior calc group members here?
For the record, I also think that catching a punch should not scale to lifting strength, but that supporting the gigantic mass of one's own body, if a character is kaiju-sized, should scale.
For the record, I also think that catching a punch should not scale to lifting strength, but that supporting the gigantic mass of one's own body, if a character is kaiju-sized, should scale.
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Catching a punch shouldn't scale to LS? That heavily depends on context, who throws it, who did they catch it etc...
Example time again:
A punches B, B catches A's punch with his hand and forces A's hand to back up,A showed a bit of resistance. B would scale to A's LS.
A punches B, B doesn't budge, but then A applies more force into his punch and moved B slightly but not too much. B would scale to A LS
Example time again:
A punches B, B catches A's punch with his hand and forces A's hand to back up,A showed a bit of resistance. B would scale to A's LS.
A punches B, B doesn't budge, but then A applies more force into his punch and moved B slightly but not too much. B would scale to A LS
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I want to say the conclusion is something along the lines of, "Some punch-catching feats may scale to lifting strength, but even if this scaling is explicitly allowed, it would be on a case-by-case basis and not an automatic assumption."
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Well so far we concluded that catching a punch of a massive object or pushing against a large vehicle to stop it within a short timeframe would allow the character to scale to lifting strength, and in cases where Character A has X lifting strength and Character B catches A's punch and then starts pushing against it, then character would scale to Character A's LS.
Of course, there needs to be evidence that the character was pushing against it, if just stopped and there's no further movement, then it cannot scale to LS.
So honestly, like KatBoi said, it'd need to be on a case-by-case basis.
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Okay. I agree with a case-by-case basis for catching punches scaling to lifting strength then.
Should this be written down somewhere?
What do you think @DontTalkDT ?
Should this be written down somewhere?
What do you think @DontTalkDT ?
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