Sans vs Yuki Nagato

[DontTalk]

Sans vs Yuki Nagato


Everyone is doing Sans matches, so I thought I will join in.

Location: Phase transposition space

State of mind: bloodlusted

Winning condition: death

Prep time: 1 second

Yuuki doesn't have Haruhis powers, but she is at her peak (she is able and willing to synchronize with her future selfs)

Scenari 2: Same, but without prep time.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

>Azzy comments about how there are way too many Sans threads

>DontTalk makes a Sans thread

DontTalk you are dead to me.

Okay seriously though, it's been like...years since I've seen anything related to TMoHS, so...the essential question for all Sans' threads (because Sans is God damn Monster Accelerator, I guess), how many people has Yuuki killed?

 

[DontTalk]

0 I would believe.

EDIT: Well, 1 maybe if you count severing ryokos data link.

EDIT 2: Which you shouldn't given that it doesn't kill the information life form, but just severes the link to the organic vessel and destroys that.

 

[DontTalk]

DontTalk you are dead to me.

My secret is.. I always was.

If you didn't guess from my profile picture already I am a 2 dimensional black square. That doesn't exactly go well together with the biological definition of living.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

My secret is.. I always was.

If you didn't guess from my profile micture already I am a 2 dimensional black square. That doesn't exactly go well together with the biological definition of living.

...You clever son of a bitch.

Anyway, if Yuuki hasn't killed anyone, that basically means Sans is going to be doing waaaaaaaay less soul damage due to KR doing jack. That means his best chance is to probably use his "prep time" to abuse his meta-"fight starts when I say it does" ability to throw out a quick sucker punch attack, though considering the lack of KR, he'd need to strike with quite a lot of it.

 

[DontTalk]

prep time is absolute. Else Yuki already has complete data manipulation of the whole space before this begins.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, I mean literally just use that second to set up attacks all around the field. Not actually fire them, yet. Normally his fastest and strongest weapons take a fraction of a moment to charge after being summoned, so summoning them beforehand and just placing them everywhere would be pretty beneficial, I would think.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, if we say setting up things like that is allowed in prep time, then I would believe that isn't beneficial to sans.

Yuki can connect to her future self in that time and by that knows his preperations and actions before.

Aside from that her observation ability enables her to detect any attacks he sets up in space and data manipulation would just turn them to nothing.

In setting up the field like this she has various other advatagous, like she can turn herself invisible and inaudible. She could even freeze him in time if that would fall under setting up the battlefield. I wonder if she could steal sans powers...


I usually understand perp time as time to analyze the opponent and generally prepare oneself (pulling out weapons, getting focused, changing to another form etc.)

 

[Northern_Wind00]

Hmm... I'd need to know more about how her Data manipulation works to weigh in on this. I have a really good understanding of the limits of sans, however. I would question her ability to interface with her future self if she's about to die though. That's kinda questionable

 

[DontTalk]

Manipulating reality throughinformation manipulation is her type of data manipulation. Not much else to say about it.

I also don't see why it should be questionable given that it would be of advantage to her in exactly such a case. Not that I even see why she should die,either way.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Prep time, in this case, is only one second. Unlike Yuki, who has the ability to interact with future selves, Sans can't really do anything if he's not allowed to do anything but analyze the situation. He would't be allowed to set up Gasterblasters, Blue Mode, prepare any bones for an assault, etc. All he could do is read Yuki's face, which granted he's really good at, but I don't see how that would help him, here. In fact, the reason he lost to Chara was because they could basically experience every way he could kill them until they were simply able to outlast him. Isn't it sort of akin to starting him with a disadvantage? Unless of course he's allowed to do things such as activate Blue Mode during that one second, which I'm assuming he can't.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, correct me if I'n wrong, but wouldn't pulling out his blasters fall under traditional prep time? He's quite literally just causing them to appear which I assume would eliminate the fraction of a second charge time before they fire after usually materializing.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, I am not sure if it would under prep. If it is then Nagato can use the second to already start reality warping the whole place through information manipulation as long as not effecting sans (basically making attacks and shields etc. appear before). That would just make it worse now, wouldn't it?

Since prep time seems to be an issue let me just add scenario 2 without it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I assume it'd probably make things a clusterf$%k.

As for match 2, I'm leaning a good bit towards Yuki, probably because Sans' soul attacks aren't going to do nearly as much on account of her not being a horrible murderer. There's basically only a few ways this can go down, I would think. Mostly thinking Sans goes straight in for the attack, which Yuki then just has to stop or dodge in some way.

I recall Yuki having pretty good regen, so if she does happen to get hit during the initial assault despite future self synchronization, the question is if it would do enough soul damage to actually cripple her or not. It's going to be doing much less considering, as I said before, Yuki isn't a murderer, so it's questionable. Assuming it actually does enough and said damage to her core essence is enough to put her down, then Sans wins. However, if it

a) is not

or

b) Yuki prevents all/enough of said hits from connecting

then she should have enough of an opening to quickly swing things in her favor and eventually land the one hit she needs on Sans.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, to give my analysis:

If this wasn't already clear I would give this to Yuki.

Yuki doesn't have the speed disadvantage, so her offensive should be superior to sans.

Especially if she doesn't spend time syncronizing that is, which I could believe she wouldn't effectively do during an immidiately starting battle (even through if she loses her future self possibly sychronizes with her past).

That aside her ability set is a lot more valuable with thing like making herself invisible and inaudible she could make assaults coordinated assaults against her hard and her own attacks almost undodgeble. To that of course comes that she can directly interfere with San and just delete his data and through that kill him.

Something that Yuki shares with sans is also the ability to teleport.

Aside from that the time stops she can impose on an area or probably useful as well.

Using information manipulation to the full extent also basically makes Sans abilitys a subset of Yuki, so in my opinion she really has pretty much all advantages.


On that note out of interest. How is the damage of karmic retribution quantified? As in how much damage would it cause, over a time t, to an opponent that has killed x people? Also do circumstances of the kills have influence? It sounds like a technique supposed to punish bad people, so I would wonder if something like killing out of self defence would also be considered...

And another question: Is Blue mode basically just normal gravity manipulation/telekinesis in practice or does it have another notable effect?

 

[Northern_Wind00]

"How is the damage of karmic retribution quantified? As in how much damage would it cause, over a time t, to an opponent that has killed x people"

Depending on if you factor my timescale calculations, sans may or may not have enough power to completely annihilate the combined essence of a nigh-multiversial entity (Chara/Frisk fused) in almost 1/300,000th of a second... with KR, on a being that is detached and hateful, we're looking at a multiplicative factor of about 8x, through what is essentially soul poison, bearing in mind that the undertale SOUL is the culmination of your being, and therefore everything you are, all of your powers, etc.

"Is Blue mode basically just normal gravity manipulation/telekinesis in practice or does it have another notable effect?"

It literally alters the nature of the sum totality of his opponent, giving them the appearance of gravity of the soul.

The way I see it is this. It's the accelerator fight all over again. If she can accurately guage his abilities and move fast enough to DEAL with his onslaught then she can win, assuming she doesn't tank a blaster to the face, which she might, as those are instantaneous to beings that percieve light at moving equal to or slightly less than 10ft per second. Relying on data manipulation still requires her to be able to out-think the scenario. It really comes down to whether or not we accept my timescale calc from the enrico pucci fight. If we do, sans' ability to percieve at at least the level to which I've stated makes his chances much higher, since he can actually fight her on her level with attacks (Blasters) faster than she's used to, approaching MFTL. Accepting my timescale calc also accepts that his damage is absurd, with or without KR, due to there being 29507365998.3 'frames' per actual second. in the timescale I calculated, lowballing it.

 

[DontTalk]

You keep mentioning calculations... which do you mean?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@DontTalk KR basically means the more people you've killed, the more damage you take and the quicker you take it. As far as I know, circumstances of said kills are irrelevant, as it is quantified purely by suffering caused. There is, to my knowledge, no way to get it down to an exact science other than knowing it was able to eat away at the soul of a multiversal entity with a little over 100 kills in seconds, and that taking additional hits speeds it up, even further.

Blue Mode functions like gravity manipulation without being gravity manipulation, as it essentially allows you to alter the position and direction of an opponent by snagging onto their core essence, making it useful against things which would normally ignore gravitational changes.

 

[Northern_Wind00]

You keep mentioning calculations... which do you mean?

From calculations off the Knight Knight's sunlight based attack in Undertale, done assuming Frisk's soul is the size of his body, at around 1.524 meters, which is actually larger than is shown in game (This number should be considered lowballing, for the purpose of calculation). We calculate the speed of the light against the size of the soul to get the distance light travels in a 'second' in Undertale.

(https://youtu.be/oKcEgBrIvBA?t=175 (calculations performed from pixel analysis pulled from this fight in this video))

If Undertale dodging took place in normal time.

9993.08 kilometers per frame.

The speed of light in an actual Undertale dodging segment.

.0001016 kilometers per frame.

Meaning the timescale of an Undertale dodging stage is...

983578866.61 x actual speed, giving us approximately 29507365998.3 'frames' per actual second.

EDIT: Woah, I messed up my math. Undertale runs at 40 per second, not thirty, right?

That would give us an ACTUAL Frames per Second of 39343154664.4, or enough to dunk on the post Sans fight HP bar of Chara/Frisk fusion 397405602 times per second, not factoring KR.

 

[DontTalk]

@Northern Wind00: That whole method isn't legitimate and shouldn't be considered. Its abuse of cinematic time/game time.


So with that in mind how about making this thread not inconclusive. I vote for Yuki, Azathoth leans towards Yuki as well. So any good objections to making it official?


@Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot: Poison... I probably should not consider it related to common durability then, right?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@DontTalk

Nah, it's pretty much durability negation to anyone without some sort of soul resistance, but as I said, Yuki's not a murderer, meaning KR isn't really going to hurt her. It's not like Sans' controls the amount of damage it puts out. His attacks simply perform it and the ability itself "judges" the target based on their "execution points" and "level of violence". I'm fairly certain Yuki's is considered 0, meaning KR would not activate and only Sans' normal soul damage (which is "1") would trigger, and because of that, it would be much, much more difficult to actually put her down even if he hit.

 

[Zhaoshuais]

I'm afraid that everyone ignores an important problem:Haruhi does not hope any of SOS members to be killed.Even she does not appear on this battle,this still works as a rule.In fact,she even cursed everyone who want to do anything hostile to her friends.


Earlier someone started a joke topic,that's about summon Kyon as Fate's servent by mistake(attempt to summon Haruhi or other members of SOS brigate),but the conclusion is even Kyon can win at last,as with Haruhi's will protection,even Kyon,can not be killed in anyway in practise.