Sans vs Kirby

[Talonmask]

You aren't understanding, Sans teleports Kirby into his attacks, and uses Blue Mode to force him to the ground, this adding on the fact that Sans is throwing bones and Gasterblasters from a multiple directions at once can be extremely disorienting, Kirby will not block every single attack.

The "eventually" doesn't really help in this scenario, as Sans' whole gimmick is that he's going to kill you quickly.

Kirby doesn't need to be possessed by an evil entity for KR to work, Kirby just has to kill, which he has done a lot of.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

How is Sans going to actually get Kirby to his actual attacks? Does he just uses it without contact?

 

[Talonmask]

Sans can activate Blue Mode and teleport Kirby without contact.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Even then, Kirby will survive bone throwing from multiple directions unless it's soul attacks. Actually, Hypernova Kirby would cancel this out since Kirby's inhale is much further augmented. I will admit, Blue mode will help. However, Kirby can still use his Inhale in mid air and call upon the warp star with his mind.

Sans' would try to kill Kirby quickly, but since Kirby has his Time Manipulation, he can use it whenever he wants. Killing Kirby is going to the hard part, since Kirby has a massively superior durability. If a possessed Frisk managed to get through Karmic Retribution, Kirby who isn't possessed would do it much better.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I agree with Talon here. The Time Beam is exclusive to the multiplayer mode, so I doubt he would promptly decide on using it over many of his other abilities, especially since he doesn't possess outside knowledge of Sans.

Also, Kirby's physical durability is practically irrelevant here, as most of Sans' attacks, as well as Karmic Retribution, attack the soul directly. It's not a matter of if you're possessed or not; if you've killed or harmed anyone, then it can kill you.

Still keeping my vote on Sans here. He's way more intelligent, and the only thing Kirby has that could potentially allow him to bypass the space-time manipulation is a somewhat obscure ability that I doubt he would use immediately, even if he was bloodlusted.

 

[Talonmask]

All of Sans' abilities attack the soul.

Hypernova has increased range, sure, but that doesn't make it an answer for what is behind Kirby, but what's in front of him.

But the problem is the fact that Kirby has many other abilities to kill Sans with, and wouldn't likely start off with Time Manipulation.

Chara is more durable than Kirby, and Sans killed them multiple times.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Wait a minute does Blue Mode have anything to do with Gravity too?

 

[Talonmask]

Blue Mode functions as Soul/Gravity Manipulation, Sans can use it to force Kirby down.

Frisk being possessed and getting through KR is irrelevant because they had unlimited chances and its not something reliant on you being possessed, its about the sins you committed, Kirby has killed tons of things.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Is Karmic Retribution an instant kill like Avada Kedabera?

 

[Cropfist]

No.

 

[Talonmask]

No, but it bypasses durability like the rest of Sans' moves and turns the opponent's sins against them and is supposedly able to increase in strength the higher your kill count is, which in Kirby's case, is a lot.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

could Kirby endure Karmic Retribution enough to get a good hit on Sans?

 

[Talonmask]

Possibly, but Sans is known for being agile, contrary to what his character makes him out to be.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

I'm still voting for Kirby since he could endure Karmic Retribution long enough to actually get a hit. About not using Time Manipulation right away, Kirby will still use it regardless since it's in a canon game and Kirby has used it in Planet Robobot.

Actually, If anyone would know about this. The things that Kirby kills isn't actually committing sins but rather self defense for his own homeworld.

Edit: Also, I remember when Sans spoke about 'You felt your sins are crawling in your back.' Here is the thing. Kirby may have killed, but he only really kills when his opponents are godlike beings trying to destroying everyone. It's actually not a sin, it's protecting. When Sans mention about 'Sins,' he mentioned that Frisk/Chara had actually murdered out of cold blood, meaning that Frisk/Chara killed innocent lives.

This would also mean that Karmic Retribution is not going to work effectively on Kirby since Kirby doesn't kill in cold blood.

 

[WDGasterBlaster]

When does sans say that it's only a sin if you kill in cold blood? Also, almost everyone in undertale attacks frisk first, so that is self defense

 

[ZSmileKidz]

Kirby wins easy,he van acesso his stomach(like in the anime)and acesso any power,Like,hipernova,and others,or,call warpstar that anull all of sans attack basically because of warpstar speed(more than 1,000,000 of times the speed of light)And Kirby himself can avoid Sans attacks,because of his speed(problaby more than speed of light,because in anime,he can escape of thunders and run in water,what need a speed faster than sound)And Sans cannot teletransport during a battle,because he dont do it when you battle him in genocide run

 

[ZSmileKidz]

I vote Kirby

 

[ZSmileKidz]

And Talonmask If chara was smashed by tons of rock would chara survive,i think not,because chara is a human,so,cahara isnt more durable than kirby

 

[ZSmileKidz]

Chara*

 

[Talonmask]

Have you even looked at Chara's profile?

Undertale humans =/= Real humans

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Obviously I'm not voting, but something came up to me. Because of Kirby's vastly higher AP compared to Sans dura, would the sheer force of the wind on the inhale kill Sans?

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Again, Sans mentioned that 'Sins crawling on your back.' Sans feeds off sins. The more sins you committed, the more powerful Sans is. If I remember correctly, killing someone who is going to destroy the world with absolute no choice, is actually NOT a sin. It is a necessary action for protecting someone with no absolute choice. Again, Kirby only kills if the threat is too great to be left alive to hurt since all of Kirby's foes are at least planetary to solar system threats and possibly universal threats who are trying to rule or destroying everything. It doesn't matter if Kirby kills, he doesn't kill in cold blood. He only kills if there is no other way against godlike beings like Magolor which is actually not a sin, making Sans' Karmic Retribution less powerful.


Edit: Also, the only real sin Kirby committed was just steal his rival's cake at the title opening of Kirby: Return to Dreamland. That's only one, but nothing completely major. Also, Sans in round one is going to hold back considering Kirby's necessary actions. However, let's say that Karmic still works should Kirby have no mercy which is possible. However, since neither Kirby nor Sans will take each other serious in round 1, Kirby will still win Via Inhale, ESP, Hypernova, Time Manipulation, and Mike Kirby. Round 2 is bloodlusted, so Kirby may have more trouble in round 2. Still, Kirby can fight through Karmic Retribution.


Round 1: Kirby via one punch, ESP, Inhale, Hypernova, Time Manipulation, Mike Kirby, or possibly Ice Kirby.

Round 2: This is closer since both are bloodlusted and speed is equalized. Kirby would still win 6/10 because of his ESP, Inhale, Hypernova, Time Manipulation, Mike Kirby.


Actually, Mike Kirby will be enough for round 1 because Kirby's singing talent is so horrible that everyone nearly dies. How is Sans going to teleport in different directions once Mike Kirby's singing hits Sans' ears? the only way he can do that is teleport further away enough, but that's still unlikely to happen in Round 1.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

There's actually a good chance of that happening.

However, I don't think that applies to any of the grind fodder in the Kirby verse, so I don't know if that'll work.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

ArbitraryNumbers, Don't forget about Mike Kirby though. I don't if Sans can handle Kirby's horrible singing talent once the soundwaves hit Sans' ears.

I'm still voting for Kirby. We can agree to disagree.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's actually a good chance of that happening.

However, I don't think that applies to any of the grind fodder in the Kirby verse, so I don't know if that'll work.

Then again, grind fodder are still building level via Whispy Woods scaling compared to Sans wall.

 

[Talonmask]

Killing people is a sin regardless, even if Frisk kills in self-defense, their love goes up.

Kirby has killed tons of fodder, so KR will be devastating.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Talonmask, you don't get it do you? it depends on the reason for killing. killing and murder are actually much different. Kirby doesn't do murder while a possessed Frisk straight out goes crazy kill.

[[1]]

I'm resting my case on the killing is a sin regardless since Kirby only kills in saving his Planet with no absolute choice.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Since, a lot of these kills Kirby did was to protect himself and his home world, then it's not a sin. So there goes your 'killing is a sin regardless' argument, invalid. Since Kirby was fighting godlike beings who were trying to destroy him and the world, yeah, it's not a sin because those what you call fodders (which they are not fodders) tried and INTENDED to rule over Popstar and the universe or even destroy it.


Karmic Retribution isn't going to work, especially in Round 1. Kirby on the other hand, has many ways to destroy Sans via Inhale, Mike Kirby, ESP, Time Manipulation, Ice Kirby. Also, Planet destroying punches in the manga, tossing hyperzone in the manga with a brush stick. One good punch or hit will be lights out for Sans.


If that wasn't enough evidence, Sans didn't get in the way of Frisk in the Neutral Route and True Pacifist Route.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Irrelevent. This isn't an argument about what a sin is, KR does damage based on the number of lives taken end of story. There's no reasoning or arguing your case about why you killed, the power just weighs the number of lives taken and it does so as a direct play on the natural state of rpgs where you mindlessly grind 'trash mobs' for xp. It is intended as a direct slap in the face to those who normally grind out levels in rpgs.

The reasons why the mechanic is the way it is don't matter though. Damage is based on number of lives taken. Accept it and move on.

 

[WDGasterBlaster]

Additionally the monsters in the underground were taking human souls to break out and wage war on the humans, which is two cases of self defense, and Kr still added up

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@Nerdman'sNeutralBoy

We're not talking about the likes of Magolor or Dark Nebula. We're talking about the countless little Waddle Dees and Bronto Burts. Kirby's more than likely killed and devoured more of them in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror (In which Kirby's goal was not to kill enemies, but instead to gather pieces of a mirror so he could travel to the mirror world) than Chara has in the whole Genocide route.

Most of Kirby's hax won't work, as Sans' Spatial and Time Manipulation counters the vast majority of it, with the only exception being Kirby's Time Beam, which is a rather obscure ability to begin with.

The only reason Sans didn't interfere is because of the promise he made with Toriel. He broke the promise when he realized that the entire timeline could've been at stake and that Toriel was dead to begin with. Not sure what your point is in bringing this up.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Umm, AN. You do realize that Sans time and space manipulation is just teleportation of himself and others, right?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

It's still enough to justify that Kirby's going to have a really hard time trying to land that killing hit. All of Kirby's attacks, save for the Time Beam, are bound to time and space, so Sans will be able to Space-time warp around them.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're making it sound like Sans can reality warp. He can't. He can't stop Kirby's attacks in midair. Just teleport around them. It's no different than Mewtwo's, just that some people hype it up.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I never said he could stop Kirby's attacks in midair; I'm saying that he could easily teleport around them, as he specifically teleports via space/time manipulation, while Kirby teleports via Extrasensory Perception.

 

[WDGasterBlaster]

I thought the full extent of sans time manipulation was just being aware of the timelines resets and such, is there more that would actually help in a fight?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No. There isn't.

 

[Nerdman'sNeutralBoy]

Plus, Kirby has a ton of one hit kill moves. Mike Kirby, Hypernova Kirby, ESP Kirby would help too even if it's limited to space and time, Kirby's Inhale Copy Ability would help too, and Time Manipulation.


Don't even think about saying 'It's unlikely that Kirby will use Time Manipulation' because once Kirby gets Sans with one good hit will end Sans. One good punch from Kirby will end Sans. if Chara who has killed much more than Kirby ever killed, survived the Karmic Retribution, then Kirby who is actually a good person can survived it better. ESP Kirby will help prolong the fight.


What is Sans' answer to when Kirby uses Mike Kirby to use his horrible singing voice sound that kills monsters and brings down an entire castle? How the heck is Sans going to try and dodge sound that travels in every direction? Simple, nothing. Even if Sans can move away, the sound waves will reach Sans' head and really deal a number to him. If I remember correctly, Mike Kirby doesn't have to make physical contact with Sans to actually hit him.

 

[Yes850]

I'm not voting, but as previously stated, whether or not Kirby is 'good' does not negate or otherwise weaken KR. It's cut and dry 'you kill, you get karma' and Kirby has killed a lot.

 

[Typhlosion130]

Kirby is strong as ****. quite strong. Over the years killing more and more people. swallowing them hole to gain their powers. sending them into an endless void for eternety (if you didn't know kirby's "stmoach" is just a portal to another world). I'd say Karma retribution would be a huge factor in this fight. the winning factor.

meaning sans will have his full multiverse level attack potency, compared to multi solar system durability kirby has.

Winner, qutie easily sans.