Sans vs Flowey

[Aldahshan93161]

Yes, Undyne the Undying hurt a far weaker Chara. The same can't be said about Sans fighting something far stronger and infinitely faster than him or the Chara he fought. Undyne the Undying's power also derives from welling up with immense amounts of DETERMINATION, something that brought Frisk without any Lv to Asriel's level.

Sans only fought Chara once, I mentioned that already. When Chara died, they went back in time to before the fight happened. Also, Chara was level 19 when they fought Sans, killing him brought them to level 20. That alone disproves that Sans fought Chara at their full power.

Chara improving only ONE level after fighting sans won't change anything chara was very close to their full power and sans kept deafeating chara multiple times and chara was multiversel when they fought sans improving only one lv won't change that much also frisk's determination never made them even close to asriel's level asriel only needed one percent of his power to fight frisk and when asriel used his full power frisk wasn't able to move because of asriel's power

 

[DerpCity]

Sans only fought them once, I've said this about three times now. Chara kept going back to a point in time that Sans had never fought them. Otherwise, he'd been exhausted from the 3rd or 4th reset, and would have used his Special Attack much sooner, since his stamina is completely atrocious compared to the rest of the cast to begin with.

That one level is the difference between destroying the multiverse with a single knife swing and being unable to hit a sidestepping skeleton with many knife swing. How strong they were is moot if you literally cannot hit your target. If they really could destroy reality at that point, Sans dodging would have done nothing. Flowey, on the other hand, is immeasurable and stronger than Chara. Sans literally could not move before Omega Flowey hit him because Omega Flowey is infinitely faster than him.

Frisk may not have been able to hurt Asriel, but they sure as hell could take hits from him and dodge his attacks, even when supposedly unable to move and while Asriel is at his full power. That, in my book, is being on his level. Oh, and Frisk could tank damage from and even hurt Omega Flowey with less determination than that.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Sans only fought them once, I've said this about three times now. Chara kept going back to a point in time that Sans had never fought them. Otherwise, he'd been exhausted from the 3rd or 4th reset, and would have used his Special Attack much sooner, since his stamina is completely atrocious compared to the rest of the cast to begin with.

That one level is the difference between destroying the multiverse with a single knife swing and being unable to hit a sidestepping skeleton with many knife swing. How strong they were is moot if you literally cannot hit your target. If they really could destroy reality at that point, Sans dodging would have done nothing. Flowey, on the other hand, is immeasurable and stronger than Chara. Sans literally could not move before Omega Flowey hit him because Omega Flowey is infinitely faster than him.

Frisk may not have been able to hurt Asriel, but they sure as hell could take hits from him and dodge his attacks, even when supposedly unable to move and while Asriel is at his full power. That, in my book, is being on his level. Oh, and Frisk could tank damage from and even hurt Omega Flowey with less determination than that.

What proves omega flowey is faster than sans,also yes chara kept going back in time but still chara was deafeated several times by sans and was forced to go back in time and try again chara going back in time doesn't change the fact that sans kept deafeating chara who is MULTIVERSIL multiple times and again nothing proves omega flowey is stronger than chara

 

[DerpCity]

Have you even read his page? It outright states he has immeasurable speed as Omega Flowey, and he used to be 2-A for being closer to Asriel than Chara until Tier 2 itself was changed recently.

I already mentioned that Chara being Multiversal at that point or not was moot, until they killed Sans they couldn't do more than cut a few monsters in half. The fight would have gone almost exactly the same way if Chara was Wall level.

My point is that Sans had no recollection of the previous fight other than the look on your face, so he doesn't even know what he did to beat you other than when you come back from the false spare. Him beating them multiple times doesn't matter.

Actually, even if he did have memory of every single fight, which I doubt, how would beating Chara multiple times even help him against Omega Flowey, who fights entirely differently? Like, Chara has one easily dodgeable attack. The only reason it worked out so effectively in the rest of the run is because no other monster bothered to dodge. Omega Flowey has numerous attacks coming from multiple angles and are hard to dodge for an immeasurable version of Frisk. How is Sans going to dodge the attacks at all? He has one shot, Frisk presumably died during the Omega Flowey and only came back because he allowed it.

 

[PaChi2]

"Nothing proves Omega Flowey is stronger than Chara"

>You prove Omega Flowey is stronger than the Chara who beat Sans (6 souls > 1 soul, LV roughly 500 times bigger, being Immesurable, having enough determination to cancel Frisk's, being only one soul from becoming Asriel, who is infinetly above Chara).

"Still nothing proves that omega Flowey is stronger than Chara"

@Aldah Are you listening to what the others say or are you trying to get your point through by repeating yourself without bringing anything new? Because you are arguing as if it was Absolute Chara the one who faced Sans, when it wasnt.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

"Nothing proves Omega Flowey is stronger than Chara"

>You prove Omega Flowey is stronger than the Chara who beat Sans (6 souls > 1 soul, LV roughly 500 times bigger, being Immesurable, having enough determination to cancel Frisk's, being only one soul from becoming Asriel, who is infinetly above Chara).

"Still nothing proves that omega Flowey is stronger than Chara"

@Aldah Are you listening to what the others say or are you trying to get your point through by repeating yourself without bringing anything new? Because you are arguing as if it was Absolute Chara the one who faced Sans, when it wasnt.

The chara that sans fought was only one level away from there absolute , chara beat sans after numerous resets,chara soul has high amounts of determination even if flowey has 6 souls the gap of power won't be wide,what did I do that points that I don't listen to people I read the reply's of and reply to them with my own opinion

 

[DerpCity]

I thought she was only "absolute" when they destroyed reality? Sans only fought a Chara-Possessed Frisk. Even hitting level 20 didn't get them to that point. You also are ignoring the literally infinite speed difference here. The only way Sans is hitting is if OF lets him, and since Flowey has fought him before, he's probably not going to let that happen.

Chara's power comes from a mixture of the determination of 1 soul and 20 LV. Compare to the fact that Omega Flowey has the determination of 6 souls alongside his own and has 9999 LV. I don't see how you can't believe OF is stronger.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

I thought she was only "absolute" when they destroyed reality? Sans only fought a Chara-Possessed Frisk. Even hitting level 20 didn't get them to that point. You also are ignoring the literally infinite speed difference here. The only way Sans is hitting is if OF lets him, and since Flowey has fought him before, he's probably not going to let that happen.

Chara's power comes from a mixture of the determination of 1 soul and 20 LV. Compare to the fact that Omega Flowey has the determination of 6 souls alongside his own and has 9999 LV. I don't see how you can't believe OF is stronger.

The 6 souls that omega flowey possess don't have the trait of determination also frisk was able to hit omega flowey sans is way faster than neutral run frisk so nothing prevents him from hitting flowey although sans might get tired at some point since omega flowey is still incredibly fast

 

[DerpCity]

They have to have Determination, otherwise Omega Flowey would not have overpowered Frisk's ability to Save and Load, which is given by Determination itself.

Frisk's determination brought them to the point of being able to dodge attacks from an immeasurable foe. Other than the Asriel fight, Frisk was far more powerful in that fight than any other time. Sans doesn't have any determination help him outmaneuver an enemy who sees moving backward or forward through time as a viable combat option.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

They have to have Determination, otherwise Omega Flowey would not have overpowered Frisk's ability to Save and Load, which is given by Determination itself.

Frisk's determination brought them to the point of being able to dodge attacks from an immeasurable foe. Other than the Asriel fight, Frisk was far more powerful in that fight than any other time. Sans doesn't have any determination help him outmaneuver an enemy who sees moving backward or forward through time as a viable combat option.

The six human souls strengthend flowey's determination the souls them selves don't posses the trait of determination also yes sans doesn't have determination but he was still able to deafeat chara that possessed high amounts of determination multiple times even if chara kept resetting sans still legitmatly deafeated chara multiple times and forced them to reset

 

[Scratchcat520]

You don't need the trait of determination to have it. From memory, all humans naturally have the trait of determination (E.I: when it's said that's the reason human souls persist after death, the non-determination souls persist). Plus the fact flowey was brought to life with an injection of determination clearly means omega flowey is much stronger than chara. Sans is utterly screwed to omega.

 

[DerpCity]

Why does it matter how many times he beat Chara? Chara was slower than Sans, while Omega Flowey is infinitely faster than Sans. You keep ignoring that fact.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Why does it matter how many times he beat Chara? Chara was slower than Sans, while Omega Flowey is infinitely faster than Sans. You keep ignoring that fact.

Right omega flowey is incredibly fast but what proves omega flowey is INFINANTILY faster than sans as I said earlier neutral run frisk who is weaker than chara was able to keep up with omega flowey so what prevents sans from keeping up with flowey although as I said sans could get tired in his fight against flowey I also wanna add that I am not trying to prove that sans can deafeat omega flowey I am trying to prove that sans will not get stomped by flowey in my opinion sans could pull a tie against flowey

 

[PaChi2]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flowey

You should read Flowey's profile, its right there "Immesurable". Unless you are arguing for Immesurable Sans, he gets blitzed.

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

Immesurable Sans would be funny :v

haha...

 

[PaChi2]

So can anyone count the votes? Seems like base flowey has this.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Omega Flowey created timelines and destroyed them right? However, Chara managed to destroy the ENTIRE Undertale World with one strike. Meaning every timeline possible in Undertale. So that means if those timelines where destroyed, Omega Flowey would've died to the strike as well due to him being in another timeline at the same time if love can make someone way stronger than someone else then Undyne The Undying would've been able to one shot chara , which she didn't. Which is why Chara is above Omega Flowey, and comparable to the likes of Asriel and since sans deafeated chara multiple times sans should be stronger than omega flowey another thing that supports sans being stronger than omega flowey is that omega flowey love is very high that means sans karmic retribution would probably destroy flowey

 

[DerpCity]

Undyne the Undying got stronger due to Determination, not LOVE, and Undyne not one-shotting Chara is probably game mechanics, PIS, or CIS.

Even though Flowey didn't destroy the same amount as Chara, it is incredibly illogical to assume that he couldn't when everything points to the fact he should very much be stronger. He has far higher love than Chara and 6 souls compared to Chara's 1 or 2, making him closer to Asriel than Chara ever will be. Also, there's the fact that when he gets the souls, the game crashes in the same manner as when Chara destroys the game, and the fact that the only save available is Flowey's World, and in Flowey's World there's nothing else but you, Flowey, your save file, and a distorted version of the opening, which Flowey likely only kept in order to mess with you. Other than that, there is literally nothing to speak of.

You keep saying that Sans is stronger Chara because they fought and won against them multiple times, which is still incorrect due to the fact Chara reset every time rather than simply regenerating a few feet away from him, but what does it even matter if Sans beat Chara if he doesn't remember it, hereby giving him no advantage because he doesn't actually know what happened? What does it matter if he beat Chara when the opponent he is currently fighting is literally infinitely faster than him when the most Chara can say is that they're Relativistic in speed if we include the Napstablook outlier? What does it matter that he beat Chara when the way Flowey fights is very much the opposite of Chara's, both in game and based on the visual representation of their fighting style?

To elaborate, Chara only swings their knife once every turn, then Sans gets his turn, which is why his Special Attack did anything at all, and even outside that every time they've killed a boss they've only used a single knife swing, minus Undyne, where the fight plays out very similarly to Sans' fight. Flowey attacks with an unpredictable display of attacks constantly in a reality where turns are nonexistent. Such attacks include a giant blue beam of death, nuclear warheads with his face on them, giant flies flying towards an opened venus flytrap, resetting your position mid fight to throw off your ability to dodge (The thing Sans needs to do in order to survive), and even the souls he uses to empower him.

I don't deny that Karmic Retribution would destroy Flowey. However, the assumption that Flowey would get hit at all is preposterous since he's Bloodlusted and is Immeasurable in speed and therefor would be able to effortlessly dodge Sans' attacks.

 

[RobbieSport]

So Base flowey wins with his safe file but no without it (unless he remembers fighting before)

For Omega flowey the souls probably wont help sans so Omega flowey pretty much stomps.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Derpcity what proves undyne not oneshoting chara was pis chara's soul has high amounts of determination which makes their soul very strong compared to the 6 souls who don't posses the trait of determination and again even if sans doesn't remember how he beat chara sans still physically and logically beat chara in the past sans himself knows how many times he beat chara therefore even though chara kept reseting it doesn't make a difference sans is still stronger than chara chara was able to deafeat sans only because they kept reseting and learning all of sans techneiques again chara is stronger than neutral run frisk who was able to dodge omega flowey's attacks and since sans is way faster than chara sans should be able to dodge omega flowey's attacks

 

[PaChi2]

Okay: lets go by the profiles and no by your assumptios, shall we?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Frisk

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flowey

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chara

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sans

Omega flowey: Immesurable. Frisk: Immesurable for fighting Flowey. ABSOLUTE Chara: Omnipresent. Non-absolute Chara (The one who fought Sans): MHS+. Sans: Unknown, and as the profile says "fastest NON-IMMESURABLE".

OF stomps, so stop repeating yourself, OF blitzes sans to oblivion,there is no dodging.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Okay: lets go by the profiles and no by your assumptios, shall we?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Frisk

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flowey

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chara

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sans

Omega flowey: Immesurable. Frisk: Immesurable for fighting Flowey. ABSOLUTE Chara: Omnipresent. Non-absolute Chara (The one who fought Sans): MHS+. Sans: Unknown, and as the profile says "fastest NON-IMMESURABLE".

OF stomps, so stop repeating yourself, OF blitzes sans to oblivion,there is no dodging.

Why do you keep saying that I repeat myself what did I repeat all what I did is backup my opinion

 

[RobbieSport]

Determination is like hax, and OF is only defeatable/ easy because the souls are willing to help you because you are human too, not sure if they will help sans which, BTW cant ACT canonically.

 

[ARandomSkeletonMan]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm Mr.Flowey does have his inescapable flower petal attack, and Sans can't straight up teleport out of an attack, only dodge them. And seriously, for someone with Massively Hypersonic speed, a knife swipe is pretty easy to dodge. So I lean towards Flowey pretty much in any scenario.

Plus, assuming the player isn't in this timeline, Flowey can just reset and stuff. So basically nobody can beat Flowey without third-party intrusion.

 

[The_Ultimate_Dragon_Slayer]

Omega Flowey is at least 12,000 times stronger than Sans, and that's the maximum ratings Mettaton can get.

Omega has 6 human souls, and one human soul is as strong as the entire soul power of the Underground, if not stronger.

That means one human soul = at least 12,000 monster souls, probably more.

Sans' soul is worth only one monster soul.

Considering Frisk defeated Sans, and got killed by Omega at least 20-30 times, that says alot.

This is a beyond-colossal stomp in favor of Flowey if he's in Omega form.

Now let's go over base Flowey.

He said that he got defeated a LOT of times by Sans when he was in control of the SAVE function, but that must also mean he managed to kill Sans at the end of their fight.

Flowey has fighting experiene against Sans, and so does the latter againt him.

Base Flowey vs Sans could go either way because they've both killed eachother before, but I'm personally leaning towards Sans but extremely slightly, considering how many times he killed Flowey.

Conclusion and my vote: Sans defeats Flowey, but gets hyperstomped by Omega. Vote is inconclusive due to this.

Small edit: The human souls likely wouldn't help Sans because he's a monster so that makes the Omega hyperstomp even worse.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Even if sans isn't able to dodge omega flowey's attacks he can teleport all of omega flowey's attacks out of his way and attack flowey with crazy numbers of bone attacks and gaster blasters and since sans's attacks have karmic retribution omega flowey would get destroyed

 

[PaChi2]

Even if sans isn't able to dodge omega flowey's attacks he can teleport all of omega flowey's attacks out of his way and attack flowey with crazy numbers of bone attacks and gaster blasters and since sans's attacks have karmic retribution omega flowey would get destroyed

.....

To tell you the truth, now I think you are trolling. What part of Immesurable is infinitely faster than Non-Immesurable (and this is for EVERY immesurable character out there) you dont understand? Sans isnt reacting/teleporting/moving/sneezing/sleeping because flowey (omega) is infinitely faster, he dies as soon as the fight starts. And lol hitting flowey with gaster blaster, Frisk is IMMESURABLE for fighting Omega Flowey, Sans ISNT IMMESURABLE, he wouldnt hit OF.

 

[RobbieSport]

Also no monster moves eve thougth of speed, sans kind of break the game he even jokes about it

 

[Aldahshan93161]

.....

To tell you the truth, now I think you are trolling. What part of Immesurable is infinitely faster than Non-Immesurable (and this is for EVERY immesurable character out there) you dont understand? Sans isnt reacting/teleporting/moving/sneezing/sleeping because flowey (omega) is infinitely faster, he dies as soon as the fight starts. And lol hitting flowey with gaster blaster, Frisk is IMMESURABLE for fighting Omega Flowey, Sans ISNT IMMESURABLE, he wouldnt hit OF.

One question what even makes omega flowey immeasurable what did omega flowey do to make him immeasurable what even proves omega flowey is immeasurable

 

[Tipoima]

Umm, why this exists, and why people discuss Omega Flowey in the first place?

First time Flowey vs Sans - Sans wins, due to "him causing Flowey's fair share of resets", and his first attack

Current Flowey vs Sans - Flowey, due to experience in killing him

Omega Flowey vs Sans - Flowey, you know why

Doesn't count Flowey loading and trying again (that way, wins every time), and being an idiot and reloading dead Sans until SOULs rebel

You can close it now

 

[The_Ultimate_Dragon_Slayer]

Umm, why this exists, and why people discuss Omega Flowey in the first place?
First time Flowey vs Sans - Sans wins, due to "him causing Flowey's fair share of resets", and his first attack

Current Flowey vs Sans - Flowey, due to experience in killing him

Omega Flowey vs Sans - Flowey, you know why

Doesn't count Flowey loading and trying again (that way, wins every time), and being an idiot and reloading dead Sans until SOULs rebel

You can close it now

Agreed with all, but kinda skeptical about current Flowey.

 

[RobbieSport]

Wel, flowey won in cannon, so he has a chance of winning, by luck, knowledge or both without reset capabilities