Sans vs Flowey

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Flowey should take this no problem. He's seen everything Sans has to offer and has killed him many times over. Unless it's Pre-Game Flowey, and just as he awakens, then Sans has no chance here whatsoever.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Oh, and in regards to people questioning why Flowey never "killled Asgore and got the souls" Flowey has done so, but the issue was he could never find out where Asgore hid the souls, that's why he needed your help to find it.

 

[Ghostly_Owns]

I would say that by technicalities (misspell?), Flowey wins - while sans has forced flowey to make resets multiple times, Flowey would thus have knowledge on what Sans would do vs him; furthermore, in event of a loss, reset and try again.

If we're talking about after Frisk enters the mountain (and thus steals flowey's ability to load), then I would say it could go either way; note that for flowey he has prior knowledge, and for sans, there's a VERY good reason why flowey kept sans in the dark about his existance lest sans attack flowey and kill him (for proof note the pacifist ending, where papryus says a little flower told him).

All that is typical flowey.

Also by technicalities, omega flowey would win by the very nature of being almost a god, though san's KR would be very effective vs a lvl 9999 (possibly/probably higher) opponent. Specifically, Omega flowey HAS SHOWN that he can pretty much erase the world and recreate in his own image (the boss battle). Said feat would involve killing/removing everyone, including sans.

That barrier thing is really inconsistent, you know? Needs 7 souls to break the barrier, and to become god. Now, if humanity united all its souls, what would that make? Also don't like that papryus being island level feat; these are noted to be magical attacks, not physical...

So many arguements, and even more counterarguements... =/

That Chara, Frisk and Asriel being high up still stands, though. Those power levels are undeniable.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

@Ghostly Owns

I'm pretty sure most Humans in Undertale don't have Determination in them. It was actually never said they did so assuming every human does is farfetched. The game is set in 201X, meaning most likely things like magic and monsters are nothing but legends and myths to the real world there.

Also, the Papyrus feat scales for AP, Attack Potency, if his attack can generate that much power, regardless if physical or not, it can count. Though there's a revision right now changing the tiers back to 7 due to the Papyrus feat being questionable.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

The whole barrier thing seems a bit weird. It wouldn't surprise me if Flowey was still trapped inside of said barrier, and perhaps the barrier is locked away from the rest of existence as a whole? Seems likely it's seperated from the timeflow or something considering it was created through many humans with assumed high determination. Obviously Floweys resets weren't doing anything to the outside world, because if that were true then Frisk would never have landed down there, everything would repeat the same as before.

 

[Smashbros39]

no one really knows how powerful is sans because he can summon endless amount of gaster blasters and bones also being able to move and control someones soul meaning it is hard for flowey to win or its just going to be a tie.

 

[Smashbros39]

no one knows how is going to win.


oh yeah, flowey in his true form, is as strong as chara right if so then sans is the winner no matter what flowey does.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

no one knows how is going to win.


oh yeah, flowey in his true form, is as strong as chara right if so then sans is the winner no matter what flowey does.

Asriel Dreemurr with all the souls is MUCH stronger than Chara. Also, how is this still a debate? Flowey knows everything Sans will do, has unavoidable attacks, and has killed Sans before.

 

[Smashbros39]

no one knows how is going to win.


oh yeah, flowey in his true form, is as strong as chara right if so then sans is the winner no matter what flowey does.

Asriel Dreemurr with all the souls is MUCH stronger than Chara. Also, how is this still a debate? Flowey knows everything Sans will do, has unavoidable attacks, and has killed Sans before.

if they are unavoidable attacks and also sans wasn't try to do anything anyway and he lets stuff happen like getting killed by flowey. Only if flowey kills PAPYRUS or CARES about what happen then we mite see sans fight to limits of his power.

also sans has instant teleportion and time awardness so he can change i up a bit and dodge flowey's attacks.

I wasn't talking about asriel dreemurr I meant OMEGA FLOWER.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

True form implied Asriel. Even then, Omega Flowey has plenty of Hax, and can just play around with his saves and loads to get kill Sans. But yes, Flowey has seen Sans while fighting, did you not see his little speech about doing everything in the book? He's done a genocide plenty of times, and has been gotten to the point where he knows what every character will say or do, etc. Sans is included.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sans vs Omega Flowey shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Smashbros39]

True form implied Asriel. Even then, Omega Flowey has plenty of Hax, and can just play around with his saves and loads to get kill Sans. But yes, Flowey has seen Sans while fighting, did you not see his little speech about doing everything in the book? He's done a genocide plenty of times, and has been gotten to the point where he knows what every character will say or do, etc. Sans is included.

flowey is soulless while asriel is not. if you count asriel as flowey's true form then it will not make sense because you are saying that flowey has two final forms. Omega Flower is basic flowey's final form while asriel will take all the monster's souls, including sans' soul, to achieve this form.

So basicly, Omega Flowey is flowey's final form if you give him the six human souls but if you don't then basic form flowey is flowey's true form.

So now what saying is that if you don't give preparation time for flowey to get the six humans soul then it's Angry Sans Vs Basic Form Flowey but if you do then it is Omega Flowey Vs ANGRY SANS.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Flowey said that Sans caused him troubles and forced him to RESET multiples times

But that was Base Flowey

So yeah, I think that Photoshop Flowey totally murder Sans (Although Sans can have some degree of advantage on hax)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Omega Flowey would brutalize Sans. Flowey didn't even get to become Omega until Frisk arrived in the Underground, and despite Flowey implying Sans gave him a lot of difficulty when he went out on a journey to kill everyone, he still managed to kill him just fine, in base. Sans wouldn't even be able to touch OF.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Should this be closed on account that this is a stomp then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Should this be closed on account that this is a stomp then?

This is not Omega Flowey.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Oh, sorry. But does Flowey have prior knowledge on Sans?

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Oh, sorry. But does Flowey have prior knowledge on Sans?

Going by current Flowey, he should stomp Sans, as he has already killed Sans countless times.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Fair point.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Well, Karmic Retribution (KR) would obliterate Flowey and he has 7 souls, the 6 human souls and Asgore's. His dunk on attack(all the bones forever) and his 1st and 2nd to last attack should work good. BUT, Sans had to dodge 1 knife strike and Flowey should be able to hit him. Lucky for Sans Flowey's souls give health and Sans could recover. Flowey has the save and load abilites thow. Sans has greater attack do to KR but Flowey has expirince. Sans can get tired but Flowey's souls can disobey him. Without any Defense frisk could hurt him, so Sans' KR could take out defense and he could hurt him alot. But the Save and Load abilites will let him reload his death. Flowey is also coky, even more than Sans. I think Sans could win if Flowey loses the souls and then... Sans owns him as fast as possible. Sans 4.6 Flowey 4.4. I'll go with sans. GO SANS!

 

[Tghy71]

With normal Flowey, I'd give almost certain odds for Sans because he can read Flowey and dodge all his attacks, while Flowey has no such ability. Against Omega Flowey, I'd say 85-15 odds for Flowey (assuming all other factors neutral). Omega can reset, but if Sans can take him out before the reset, which he might be able to do with his immense speed and KR, he could conceivably win.

 

[Scratchcat520]

If we are going classic flowey, Sans will destroy him.

Omega Flowey would be tough, KR could obliterate God Flowey, But Sans-es 1 HP compared to Omega's Bullet Hell would not be good for sans, plus flowey as already seen sans-es attacks.

Based on 9999 LV, KR might even send flowey to 1 HP..but Flowey would reset if he gets him down to 0 HP (like how he did his Troll Face Reset in his fight), And im not sure Sans would know to save the souls, or how to.

If base Flowey, Im going sans

If Omega, Im going Flowey.

 

[Tghy71]

Didn't the souls rebel themselves? (Without Frisk doing anything first) If so, it seems like they should do so for Sans as well, giving him a good edge.

 

[Scratchcat520]

No, they only rebel if you act for each one, and if you miss the act button, you have to play that one again.

 

[Tghy71]

Oh. Ok then.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Sans would beat both base and omega flowey because of his kR and dodging speed but omega flowey would eventually win because if his ability to reset

 

[DerpCity]

@Aldahshan Assuming it was their first time fighting, yes, base Flowey would lose, as Flowey himself confirmed it. Omega Flowey, however, is immeasurable and tier Multivere level. Sans can't contend with someone who can move through time or end all of reality the moment the fight started if they wanted to.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

@Aldahshan Assuming it was their first time fighting, yes, base Flowey would lose, as Flowey himself confirmed it. Omega Flowey, however, is immeasurable and tier Multivere level. Sans can't contend with someone who can move through time or end all of reality the moment the fight started if they wanted to.

Sans kept reapetedly deafeating chara who is multiversel also flowey didn't destroy the reality of the game flowey created and/or altered the reality of the game

 

[PaChi2]

Im lost, is this Omega Flowey vs Sans?

 

[DerpCity]

@PaChi Last I read this thread, I saw both argued. I was simply arguing against his statement that Sans would beat Omega Flowey. After reading the Op more clearly, though, it appears to be Base Flowey. Whoops. :S

@Aldah Difference is that Omega Flowey is FAR beyond the Chara he fought. While not infinitely below their absolute, Chara still only had the swing of a knife. The amount of power in that attack doesn't matter when it can't connect. In contrast, Omega Flowey's attacks are sporadic, somewhat unpredictable, and numerous in number, and many have an AOE component.

Also, Chara fought Sans numerous times, not the other way around, and the only reason knew how many times they had fought was because of their facial expression. All that really changed between resets was Chara's face, not Sans' memory.

Based on the scenario in the op, Flowey should still win, though not certainly. Flowey, prior to Frisk's arrival, had been through literally everything the underground had to offer, sans getting Asgore to show him the souls. Even though he did say that Sans caused him his fair share of resets, the implications of the earlier statement is that he has killed him, meaning that he should win here because he's gone through the grueling process of killing him before, and can probably kill him again.

 

[PaChi2]

The only thing I can argue here is that we dont know the conditions that allowed Flowey to beat Sans (as he had his LV reseted everytime so we dont know if he was much stronger when beating Sans than when Frisk met Base flowey).

 

[DerpCity]

@PaChi I suppose that point stands, but technically speaking wouldn't having a lower LV help here? If KR becomes effectively a papercut compared to Sans's normal damage in this scenario, then that should help him out severely. Not only that, but Flowey still has knowledge of how Sans fights from past experience.

Victory isn't guaranteed, but I feel Flowey should win more often than not.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

@PaChi Last I read this thread, I saw both argued. I was simply arguing against his statement that Sans would beat Omega Flowey. After reading the Op more clearly, though, it appears to be Base Flowey. Whoops. :S

@Aldah Difference is that Omega Flowey is FAR beyond the Chara he fought. While not infinitely below their absolute, Chara still only had the swing of a knife. The amount of power in that attack doesn't matter when it can't connect. In contrast, Omega Flowey's attacks are sporadic, somewhat unpredictable, and numerous in number, and many have an AOE component.

Also, Chara fought Sans numerous times, not the other way around, and the only reason knew how many times they had fought was because of their facial expression. All that really changed between resets was Chara's face, not Sans' memory.

Based on the scenario in the op, Flowey should still win, though not certainly. Flowey, prior to Frisk's arrival, had been through literally everything the underground had to offer, sans getting Asgore to show him the souls. Even though he did say that Sans caused him his fair share of resets, the implications of the earlier statement is that he has killed him, meaning that he should win here because he's gone through the grueling process of killing him before, and can probably kill him again.

Yes omega flowey can fire thousands of attacks but chara's attacks are still incredibley very fast and sans was dodging them easily so nothing prevents sans from dodging omega flowey's also nothing proves omega flowey is above chara

 

[DerpCity]

@Aldah I mentioned earlier that Omega Flowey is immeasurable. During the fight with Sans, Chara's knife swings were literally infinitely slower than Omega Flowey's attacks.

 

[PaChi2]

@Alda Omega flowey is above chara, if you look at his stats during the battle you'll see the difference between both of them.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

@Alda Omega flowey is above chara, if you look at his stats during the battle you'll see the difference between both of them.

I am talking about chara at the end of the genocide run that chara destroy the entire reality of the game which contained a massive amount of timelines omega flowey altered the reality of the game but nothing proves omega flowey can actually destroy the reality of the game

 

[DerpCity]

Sans never fought the Chara that destroyed the entire reality of the game, he fought them before they got to that state. Omega Flowey should be far stronger than Chara anyway, as not only does Omega Flowey have 6 human souls as opposed to Chara's 2 at most, Omega Flowey has a little less than 500 times the LV they do.

 

[Aldahshan93161]

Sans never fought the Chara that destroyed the entire reality of the game, he fought them before they got to that state. Omega Flowey should be far stronger than Chara anyway, as not only does Omega Flowey have 6 human souls as opposed to Chara's 2 at most, Omega Flowey has a little less than 500 times the LV they do.

Undyne the undying didn't have lv yet she was able to harm chara the same thing could apply for chara vs omega flowey also sans deafeated the end of game chara numerous times nothing disproves that the chara that sans fought isn't chara at their full power

 

[Scratchcat520]

Sans never fought the Chara that destroyed the entire reality of the game, he fought them before they got to that state. Omega Flowey should be far stronger than Chara anyway, as not only does Omega Flowey have 6 human souls as opposed to Chara's 2 at most, Omega Flowey has a little less than 500 times the LV they do.

Undyne the undying didn't have lv yet she was able to harm chara the same thing could apply for chara vs omega flowey also sans deafeated the end of game chara numerous times nothing disproves that the chara that sans fought isn't chara at their full power

I can't understand what you just said. .-.

 

[DerpCity]

Yes, Undyne the Undying hurt a far weaker Chara. The same can't be said about Sans fighting something far stronger and infinitely faster than him or the Chara he fought. Undyne the Undying's power also derives from welling up with immense amounts of DETERMINATION, something that brought Frisk without any Lv to Asriel's level.

Sans only fought Chara once, I mentioned that already. When Chara died, they went back in time to before the fight happened. Also, Chara was level 19 when they fought Sans, killing him brought them to level 20. That alone disproves that Sans fought Chara at their full power.