Sans/Jevil CRT

[Drhorrible100]

(jevils portion finished) So, I joined a vs match on a different thread and I noticed that Jevil's profile needs a cleanup. Here is the thread in case anyone wants to see what I am talking about. I noticed 2 things, 1 is definitely wrong and 1 is debatable but I doubt it. First thing is for whatever reason, everyone has put Kris's pirouette ability as Jevil's ability. Jevil cannot summon birds, or raise people's defense, heal people, or shuffle stats. That is 100% Kris's power, as it is something that happens via player action on player turn, and is in the player's ability section. Second, Jevil is NOT capable of telekinesis as it says on his profile. He is never once shown to use telekinesis. Now for the sans part of the CRT. Contrary to popular belief, sans does NOT have 1 hp, he has 1 defense, which is a big difference. The only reason he died in one hit was because frisk/chara was strong enough to 1 shot any monster with a soul at that point. Chara does 999999 damage to him, and he is still strong enough after that attack to get up and walk away before dying, making me think that is his HP count, because when frisk one shots people he usually does damage equal to their HP, although I may be wrong.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Well hp is just game mechanics so this wouldn't chnage much, but i heard that the game files gives us all enemies hp and sans has 1 hp there, would help if someone could see them.

I think jevil's telekinesis is based on his turning into a scythe and flying, but that's just, like, flight.

There might some other ability, like the rotating ruck attack, i dunno.

 

[Drhorrible100]

I think jevil's telekinesis is based on his turning into a scythe and flying, but that's just, like, flight.

Agreed, change telekinesis to flight

Well hp is just game mechanics so this wouldn't chnage much, but i heard that the game files gives us all enemies hp and sans has 1 hp there, would help if someone could see them.

Hm I would except I dont have a decompiler that works with undertale yet

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think i remember the roating duck attack to lack wires or bars or anything, so they would be flying and that could be telekinesis, though if they are made from magic that would just be, well, magic that can be controlled mid air

Edit: i checked, the horse and duck attack flies around you, if they are objects, it would be telekinesis.

 

[Drhorrible100]

though if they are made from magic that would just be, well, magic that can be controlled mid air

Its a magic attack from what I remember

 

[Soupywolf5]

Chara does 999999 damage to him, and he is still strong enough after that attack to get up and walk away before dying, making me think that is his HP count, because when frisk one shots people he usually does damage equal to their HP, although I may be wrong.

You can one-shot Mettaton Neo with very different amounts of damage (The damage you deal in the Neo fight in an aborted genocide route is far less than in a normal genocide route, yet Mettaton dies to both with little to no notable difference other than dialogue), and numerous other monsters survive for a brief period after dropping to 0 hp without dying (Neo being a prime example), so there’s no reason to assume Sans actually has almost 1 million hp (Undertale pretty clearly doesn’t behave like D&D in this regard)

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I think i remember the roating duck attack to lack wires or bars or anything, so they would be flying and that could be telekinesis, though if they are made from magic that would just be, well, magic that can be controlled mid air

Edit: i checked, the horse and duck attack flies around you, if they are objects, it would be telekinesis.

I think It"s because of the attacks where he uses 4 flying Devilsknife to attack Kris and his companions

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think It"s because of the attacks where he uses 4 flying Devilsknife to attack Kris and his companions

ah, yeah that could be telekinesis if the devilknifes aren't just magic constructs

 

[JustANormalLemon]

ah, yeah that could be telekinesis if the devilknifes aren't just magic constructs

Considering that when defeating Jevil, the prize is a Devilsknife that can be used in combat, it probably isn't just magic.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Considering that when defeating Jevil, the prize is a Devilsknife that can be used in combat, it probably isn't just magic.

seems fine to me

 

[Drhorrible100]

I'm willing to accept that he is able to use telekinesis on objects he creates but even if the devilsnives and etc are controllable by him, it doesnt mean he can use it on anything else, so it should be updated in his profile about that. Also I don't know what sans's hp count is, I'm just saying that him having 1 hp isnt true at all and is never implied to be true. Every boss in genocide is killed in one hit except undyne. Also since deltarune 2 came out I'd like to postpone this crt for a little while in case something in ch 2 changes things here

 

[Thelastmlg]

Again, we need someone to verify if the supossed stat files exist and what is sans'.

 

[Drhorrible100]

Again, we need someone to verify if the supossed stat files exist and what is sans'.

I downloaded an app to see the code and looked, his HP is a variable called "globalhp" so we would need to find the variable contents. Also I don't think that information via data mining in Undertale is canon, flowey's friendliness pellets actually heal 20 HP in the code and yet we see them harming people

 

[Thelastmlg]

Pretty sure it is if it is really his hp, if the game doesn't tell us his hp then we have to search the files for answers.

But considering we are talking about a game mechanic that doesn't translate well into reality and IIRC is not talked about in verse, hp itself might not be canon

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Wouldn't HP be a way of saying "how much damage your body can take before you die/faint"?

 

[Drhorrible100]

Pretty sure it is if it is really his hp, if the game doesn't tell us his hp then we have to search the files for answers.

But considering we are talking about a game mechanic that doesn't translate well into reality and IIRC is not talked about in verse, hp itself might not be canon

HP is mentioned by Chara. That might just be because of 4th wall awareness but we don't know for sure. But yeah I'm just saying that Toby fox takes coding shortcuts so we can't be sure even if the files say he has 1 HP that he has 1 HP. Also while I was looking in the files I found a value called Karmic Poison and in my game it was set to 6 and I'm pretty sure it's normally something else, giving evidence for sans' poison increasing based off of someone's LV. I'm not sure though so I'm not editing my CRT yet.

 

[Drhorrible100]

You can one-shot Mettaton Neo with very different amounts of damage (The damage you deal in the Neo fight in an aborted genocide route is far less than in a normal genocide route, yet Mettaton dies to both with little to no notable difference other than dialogue), and numerous other monsters survive for a brief period after dropping to 0 hp without dying (Neo being a prime example), so there’s no reason to assume Sans actually has almost 1 million hp (Undertale pretty clearly doesn’t behave like D&D in this regard)

Yeah monsters survive without dying but sans is the only one who actually stands up and walks away. Also we need to point out that mettaton ex and mettaton neo are different forms so it's perfectly possible for them to have HP counts. Sorry for replying so late.

 

[Drhorrible100]

Considering that when defeating Jevil, the prize is a Devilsknife that can be used in combat, it probably isn't just magic.

I assumed he turned into all devilsknives, but I have no evidence for that so
As I said, I'm willing to accept that he can use telekinesis on objects he creates but we have no evidence otherwise

 

[Soupywolf5]

Yeah monsters survive without dying but sans is the only one who actually stands up and walks away. Also we need to point out that mettaton ex and mettaton neo are different forms so it's perfectly possible for them to have HP counts. Sorry for replying so late.

I never mentioned Mettaton Ex though? Both in a normal genocide route and an aborted genocide route you fight Mettaton Neo, and despite dealing very different amounts of damage, Mettaton gets one-shot in both instances

 

[Drhorrible100]

I never mentioned Mettaton Ex though? Both in a normal genocide route and an aborted genocide route you fight Mettaton Neo, and despite dealing very different amounts of damage, Mettaton gets one-shot in both instances

Oh I see I misread. Still it shouldn't be assumed that sans' HP is one. Plus sleeping increases your max HP and sans sleeps a lot so even more likely that he has more HP than one

 

[Soupywolf5]

Oh I see I misread. Still it shouldn't be assumed that sans' HP is one. Plus sleeping increases your max HP and sans sleeps a lot so even more likely that he has more HP than one

It also shouldn’t be assumed that he has more health than, like, every other monster in the game combined without anything to suggest that

also you can’t ever increase your max health by more than 10, so I doubt Sans sleeping a lot would actually lead to him having a gargantuan amount of HP

 

[Drhorrible100]

It also shouldn’t be assumed that he has more health than, like, every other monster in the game combined without anything to suggest that

also you can’t ever increase your max health by more than 10, so I doubt Sans sleeping a lot would actually lead to him having a gargantuan amount of HP

The reason you can only increase your max HP by ten is because the inn keepers won't let you get a second bed iirc. Also I don't think that he has a million HP, I just think it's definitely not zero and is probably pretty high due to him sleeping a lot. Regardless, it's not one even if sleeping only increases max by 10

 

[Drhorrible100]

Just gonna copy what I found on a steam forum and paste it here because it explains my thinking about data mining well (I fixed the typos)
"Actually the amount of HP sans have is never stated in game, and data mines arent canon (in fact, toby fox told us not to look at them as they were simply a way to implement the world and also left an advice in the gamefiles)

In fact, the datas from datamining and the game frequently contradicts each other, the canon being the game.

Asgore have 80 attacks and 80 defense, if the datamining says otherwise (and it does), the datamining is wrong.

Asriel have limitless attack and defense, if the datamining says otherwise, the datamining is wrong. and... well, the datamining is actually almost invariably wrong. so unless you can show a screencap of sans HP being stated in game, we dont know his real amount of HP, only that he have less than 10 million HP."

 

[Drhorrible100]

Bump. I think that the winning conditions for killing sans should be ripping his ribcage open (all 6 ribs) because that's the damage we see done to him when he dies. Otherwise we should just assume he has human level bone durability. Can we agree on that?

 

[Drhorrible100]

Bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Bump. I think that the winning conditions for killing sans should be ripping his ribcage open (all 6 ribs) because that's the damage we see done to him when he dies. Otherwise we should just assume he has human level bone durability. Can we agree on that?

I.... can't.... monsters are made of magic, not fisical material

 

[Drhorrible100]

I.... can't.... monsters are made of magic, not fisical material

That's never been said in the game. Since when are they made out of magic

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's never been said in the game. Since when are they made out of magic

Since always. That scan is on literally every monster profile under type 1 Inorganic Physiology.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Surviving for a bit after getting hit with a killing blow is something Mettaton, Undyne, Toriel, and Papyrus do in every route.(besides pacifist no duh) Sans pulling the same thing when his rib cage is ripped the hell open when Papyrus survived as a literal head for a bit isn't exactly inconsistent.

As for Sans having a high HP rating because "lolsleeping" isn't accurate, the most you get from sleeping is 10 HP, we can't make a wild assumption that because Sans sleeps more then pretty much everyone he has higher HP then Undyne. I can't even say Sans has HP comparable to Papyrus, he's the weakest monster in the underground physically, as in, weaker then the Ruins enemies, he just so happens to have the best soul manip in the verse outside of Chara.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Bump. I think that the winning conditions for killing sans should be ripping his ribcage open (all 6 ribs) because that's the damage we see done to him when he dies. Otherwise we should just assume he has human level bone durability. Can we agree on that?

Since when does he get his rib cage ripped open? All you do is slash him across the chest once, which is a pretty big difference

 

[DaReaperMan]

Since when does he get his rib cage ripped open? All you do is slash him across the chest once, which is a pretty big difference

I mean, the man has human level dura and is being hit by a person who one-shots people far superior to him. I think it went through his rib cage

 

[Soupywolf5]

I mean, the man has human level dura and is being hit by a person who one-shots people far superior to him. I think it went through his rib cage

Sure he gets ****** up, but his chest is still quite clearly intact, nothing that you’d describe as being “ripped open”

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sure he gets ****** up, but his chest is still quite clearly intact, nothing that you’d describe as being “ripped open”

Knives have cutting power. I'd describe something thst went through every rib on my right side like a hot knife through butter as my ribcage bring ripped open.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Knives have cutting power. I'd describe something thst went through every rib on my right side like a hot knife through butter as my ribcage bring ripped open.

Are you sure about that?

Well, I personally wouldn’t describe a single slash through your ribs as them being ripped open (Your ribs are for the most part intact and they’re not completely deformed, some of them just don’t fully connect, and being cut open is a far better description for that than being ripped open)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, it's just up to personal interpretation, regardless our points stand one way or another.

 

[Drhorrible100]

Since always. That scan is on literally every monster profile under type 1 Inorganic Physiology.

Rip sorry

Sure he gets ****** up, but his chest is still quite clearly intact, nothing that you’d describe as being “ripped open”

Ketchup comes out of his body and you see a gigantic slash, considering how strong frisk/Chara was at the time I extremely doubt that his ribcage wasn't torn open. Cut open sure, I still think the winning requirements killing wise should be tearing through his chest

 

[Soupywolf5]

Rip sorry

Ketchup comes out of his body and you see a gigantic slash, considering how strong frisk/Chara was at the time I extremely doubt that his ribcage wasn't torn open. Cut open sure, I still think the winning requirements killing wise should be tearing through his chest

That sounds extremely susceptible to being NLF’d, there’s no reason to assume you can’t kill Sans through other forms of injury and that you absolutely need to tear through his chest to do so

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ketchup comes out of his body and you see a gigantic slash, considering how strong frisk/Chara was at the time I extremely doubt that his ribcage wasn't torn open. Cut open sure, I still think the winning requirements killing wise should be tearing through his chest

Sans doesn't have type 2 immortality.

 

[Drhorrible100]

Sans doesn't have type 2 immortality.

Why would he need it? I suspect his bones are brittle, hense the one defense, so it wouldn't be hard to cut his ribs open

That sounds extremely susceptible to being NLF’d, there’s no reason to assume you can’t kill Sans through other forms of injury and that you absolutely need to tear through his chest to do so

Do you have a better suggestion

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why would he need it? I suspect his bones are brittle, hense the one defense, so it wouldn't be hard to cut his ribs open

Do you have a better suggestion

Your suggestion for one thing

Yeah, he can be killed normally. Like literally every single other monster