Sans Fights a 2-A Character

[omegabronic]

The KARMA explanation on his page should absolutely not be changed, it explains exactly how KARMA functions in the game. Frisk also only takes 1 damage from Sans because he's the weakest Monster, 1HP is the minimum damage the player can take in Undertale, not because Sans deals set damage no matter what.

Not that part, no

Chip damage is also mentioned on the profile.

That is not chip damage at all, that is just describing his durability neg as something that stacks up over time, chip would imply that he is regularly harming with his own ap

 

[omegabronic]

I gonna do a CRT to change that then, since It don't make any sense.

Change what exactly?

 

[Lou_change]

"The easiest enemy. Can only deal 1 damage."
That's about sans being weak not some special ability the context suggests it means can at most deal 1 damage,

That is not chip damage at all, that is just describing his durability neg as something that stacks up over time, chip would imply that he is regularly harming with his own ap

It references the lack of inv frames combined with contact damage giving him high dps

 

[omegabronic]

"The easiest enemy. Can only deal 1 damage."
That's about sans being weak not some special ability the context suggests it means can at most deal 1 damage

That a hearing about him dealing 1 damage per frame, there is nothing saying that it is him damaging you with his regular ap

If it was, the rate from it would change depending on the armor you have or how high your defense stat is, but it doesn't, if you want to make that an accepted thing you should make a crt instead of arguing it in a vs match, you know?

It references the lack of inv frames combined with contact damage giving him high dps

Says who? Besides, that is not how chip damage works, irl, when you take a hit, you take the damage from it, it doesn't constantly damages you on contact with something, and besides, if taking what you say as true, sans would still negate durability with the monster's soul attacks, since contrary to them, he would drain the hp of the target in the same speed regardless of their durability, which by your reasoning is what happens in game

 

[Lou_change]

there is nothing saying that it is him damaging you with his regular ap

We have occam's razor you don't give him powers based on an intentionally misinterpretation of the context of weakest enemy and 1 attack

If it was, the rate from it would change depending on the armor you have or how high your defense stat is, but it doesn't, if you want to make that an accepted thing you should make a crt instead of arguing it in a vs match, you know?

No because you also aren't talking about something accepted he does the minimum damage like everyone else because how the game is programed

Says who? Besides, that is not how chip damage works, irl, when you take a hit, you take the damage from it, it doesn't constantly damages you on contact with something,

because it is intangible

if taking what you say as true, sans would still negate durability with the monster's soul attacks, since contrary to them, he would drain the hp of the target in the same speed regardless of their durability, which by your reasoning is what happens in game

why, high balling a ******* 1000000000x times gap between frisk's lowest and highest possible durability at that point covers a tiny fraction of 3D part the tiering system

 

[omegabronic]

We have occam's razor you don't give him powers based on an intentionally misinterpretation of the context of weakest enemy and 1 attack

Considering that normal damage doesn't work like the way you are describing at all, you can't use occam's razor at all since it isn't simpler than it being a durability negation thing, which is a simpler hax than whatever you are proposing

No because you also aren't talking about something accepted he does the minimum damage like everyone else because how the game is programed

yes i am, that much was said in the crt for the durability negation change

because it is intangible

And that matters for what i said because?

why, high balling a ******* 1000000000x times gap between frisk's lowest and highest possible durability at that point covers a tiny fraction of 3D part the tiering system

What durability? I am talking about HP, which isn't the same at all to durability, 2-B durability frisk still only has 20 HP, defense is another unrelated stat to HP in undertale

 

[Zabazab]

Considering that normal damage doesn't work like the way you are describing at all, you can't use occam's razor at all since it isn't simpler than it being a durability negation thing, which is a simpler hax than whatever you are proposing

I'm not sure if you're confused. Sans deals 1 point of damage- the lowest possible damage value the player can take in Undertale- because his attack stat is the lowest positive value in the game. He's weak. He deals very fast chip damage with the limited dura neg of his soul hax, and applies the KARMA status effect.

Additional evidence of Sans being unable to damage High 3-A or higher characters is that the Boss Asriel Dreemurr has an infinite defence stat, and is immune to any damage from the player.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I'm not sure if you're confused. Sans deals 1 point of damage- the lowest possible damage value the player can take in Undertale- because his attack stat is the lowest positive value in the game. He's weak. He deals very fast chip damage with the limited dura neg of his soul hax, and applies the KARMA status effect.

Additional evidence of Sans being unable to damage High 3-A or higher characters is that the Boss Asriel Dreemurr has an infinite defence stat, and is immune to any damage from the player.

But is it from Sans. Also we can literally look into the game files for that. No idea if it has been done.

 

[Zabazab]

But is it from Sans.

What is "it"?

Also we can literally look into the game files for that. No idea if it has been done.

Yes, Undertale is coded so that the minimum positive damage value the player can receive is rounded up to 1 point of HP. If the player takes negative damage they'll be healed instead.

 

[omegabronic]

I'm not sure if you're confused. Sans deals 1 point of damage- the lowest possible damage value the player can take in Undertale- because his attack stat is the lowest positive value in the game. He's weak. He deals very fast chip damage with the limited dura neg of his soul hax, and applies the KARMA status effect.

If it was normal damage, 1 frisk would get the invincibility frames and 2 the said "chip" would change depending on the defense frisk has, since this is how chip damage works, but that isn't what happens, sans deals the exact same damage no matter what durability you have

Besides, as i have said numerous times, the thread that made the durability negation of mosnster limited specified constantly that sans' wouldn't be affected by it at all, KR wasn't even brought up either during it

Additional evidence of Sans being unable to damage High 3-A or higher characters is that the Boss Asriel Dreemurr has an infinite defence stat, and is immune to any damage from the player.

How is frisk not having the raw AP to harm asriel a factor for sans' durability neg?

 

[omegabronic]

What is "it"?


Yes, Undertale is coded so that the minimum positive damage value the player can receive is rounded up to 1 point of HP. If the player takes negative damage they'll be healed instead.

It is also coded that if they are damaged normaly, they blink invulnerable for a few seconds, that doesn't happen with sans

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

No invulnerable is a game mechanic and a bad argument. Find something else. Also Sans does have 1 ATK.

 

[omegabronic]

No invulnerable is a game mechanic and a bad argument. Find something else. Also Sans does have 1 ATK.

We treat it as a canon thing, so i don't need to find something else

Besides, you suggest looking into the code, how is that ok by you but invulnerability aren't?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Because invulnerability is a game mechanic to make battles easier that doesn't actually exist in actual battles so find something that proves the attack ignores defence.

 

[omegabronic]

Because invulnerability is a game mechanic to make battles easier that doesn't actually exist in actual battles so find something that proves the attack ignores defence.

....you didn't read it what i wrote?

We treat it as a canon thing, so i don't need to find something else

Besides, you suggest looking into the code, how is that ok by you but invulnerability aren't?

Give a look at frisk's profile, they are a canon thing that happens

Oh and also, dealing only 1 damage is part of the invulnerability mechanic, so it is even weirder that you would only use part of a mechanic instead of the whole one

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

They are a stat. Half the games I play have the ability to extend that window as well and be more generous. That's still something ingame though.

 

[Ikelaggan]

I like how most of this thread just devolved into a sans hax CRT

 

[Redite250]

Yeah like close this and start a CRT or something lol, Galactus hasn't been mentioned in like 200 comments

 

[omegabronic]

They are a stat. Half the games I play have the ability to extend that window as well and be more generous. That's still something ingame though.

Just as the invulnerability frames are

 

[omegabronic]

I like how most of this thread just devolved into a sans hax CRT

Worst yet, a sans hax talk of something already accepted.....

Yeah like close this and start a CRT or something lol, Galactus hasn't been mentioned in like 200 comments

That is what i have been saying

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

sans wins

 

[RanaProGamer]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah like close this and start a CRT or something lol, Galactus hasn't been mentioned in like 200 comments

This reminds me of the time I tried to have Courier fight Sans and they basically said it was a mismatch (I may try it again), the fact he can try against a 2-A for some reason baffles me

 

[CoffeeBaiano]

Alright guys, just gonna make a question: Are invincibility frames treated as a form of durability inside the UT's universe as well?

 

[omegabronic]

Alright guys, just gonna make a question: Are invincibility frames treated as a form of durability inside the UT's universe as well?

They are considered invulnerability here on the wiki

 

[CoffeeBaiano]

They are considered invulnerability here on the wiki

Yes I am aware of that. But do they count as a part of durability/something that would add to it somehow?

 

[CoffeeBaiano]

Well, I did some research and I found out that there is a bit of an inconsistency with the UT CRT of Dura Neg, especially with the Sans' part. Sans seems to be NO EXCEPTION when it comes to monsters limited durability, and I'll explain why.

First of all, I read about the CRT and the main reason why Sans is the exception is because people used to believe that, aside from the other monsters, there was no way for you to mitigate his damage by wearing conventional armor, but this seems to be a lie since, well, there IS a way for you to mitigate his poison effect with the Torn Notebook and Cloudy Glasses since these items combined increase your invulnerability frames, which I searched for in the wiki and they ARE considered part of durability, which means that THERE IS a way for you to tank Sans' KARMA poison a bit more with armor. And if you're able to do this, then that means Sans has NO TRUE DURA NEG, and just has a stronger level of limited durability negation compared to the other monsters. So I don't think we should keep Sans the exception anymore, which also means he should get back at having limited durability negation.

 

[omegabronic]

Well, I did some research and I found out that there is a bit of an inconsistency with the UT CRT of Dura Neg, especially with the Sans' part. Sans seems to be NO EXCEPTION when it comes to monsters limited durability, and I'll explain why.

First of all, I read about the CRT and the main reason why Sans is the exception is because people used to believe that, aside from the other monsters, there was no way for you to mitigate his damage by wearing conventional armor, but this seems to be a lie since, well, there IS a way for you to mitigate his poison effect with the Torn Notebook and Cloudy Glasses since these items combined increase your invulnerability frames, which I searched for in the wiki and they ARE considered part of durability, which means that THERE IS a way for you to tank Sans' KARMA poison a bit more with armor. And if you're able to do this, then that means Sans has NO TRUE DURA NEG, and just has a stronger level of limited durability negation compared to the other monsters. So I don't think we should keep Sans the exception anymore, which also means he should get back at having limited durability negation.

you would need to create a thread for that first, but if you want to discuss this better before that, i suggest taking that to the general discussion thread here: https://vsbattles.com/posts/6158433/ and ask people about it first, for the note, the invulnerability frames makes one invulnerable, as it is listed on Frisk's profile, they are not part of durability at all, so this is a matter of hax for these things rather than anything durability related from sans' hax

also https://vsbattles.com/threads/so-lets-talk-about-sans.155557/

reminding you, if you want to discuss this any further, the general discussion thread is best than a versus match

 

[RanaProGamer]

Almost 10 pages with no victor in sight, lol. If Sans can beat a 2-A character, I might put him against a Low 1-C character.

 

[King_Dom470]

Almost 10 pages with no victor in sight, lol. If Sans can beat a 2-A character, I might put him against a Low 1-C character.

What are the votes for each character?

 

[Magicomethkuon]

At this point, someone should just make a CRT for Sans's negation of durability (or at least stablish how it's approached in battles). Proposed discussion of the thread is dead and buried.

 

[omegabronic]

At this point, someone should just make a CRT for Sans's negation of durability (or at least stablish how it's approached in battles). Proposed discussion of the thread is dead and buried.

people already did that

So... let's talk about Sans

Well, this is more focused on Sans battles. Beacuse I just noticed a thing So, sinse undertale magic "Dura negation" has been extremely nerfed to the point of acting like regular atacks sans keept a form of Durability negation trough karma But there is a big problem with that... Karma can't...

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