Saitama's limitless growth retrospective

[ArachDusa]

The One Punch Man manga's rendition of Saitama's final battle against Garou is one of the most important pieces of scaling of the series' God tiers, not only in terms of destructive power, but also a wide array of unprecedented and exceptionally powerful hax abilities, with the crown jewel among them surely being the titular One Punch Man's power of endless growth. Here's the thing about it, though: Not only is it not unprecedented and has in fact been foreshadowed before, the way it was introduced way back when has its own interesting application for the series and its top tier scaling.
There were many allusions to the idea that Saitama's power never stopped growing, from Murata stressing out that he never stopped training to the quote to Glasses used on his profile in the Wiki itself. The most blatant, however, is the second audiobook confirming that Saitama grows strong enough to oneshot his past self every day, with both Saitama and Genos affirming that it's obvious that he wouldn't lose to himself from yesterday and that his power is dramatically increasing by the day. This statement would (and did) sound pretty murky in isolation, but after the Garou battle, it seems quite undeniable. Past objections like that time Saitama said he "can't get stronger anymore" (Which, assuming it wasn't itself an inconsistency or retconned, must have not been referring to literal physical strength) or the out-of-context statement from ONE that Garou versus Boros would be a "good fight" have now officially been blown out of the water thanks to the actual Garou fight in the manga, where Saitama's endless growth was pretty much the only reason he could prevail against an enemy who had all of his raw strength and several times the intelligence and hax.
But of course, there is now a new objection in town: Some people have argued that Saitama's strength was only growing because of his upsurge of emotions whereas it's normally static. The actual monologue where that statement was taken from paints quite a different picture:

Even now, Saitama has only continued growing. His rate of growth, which went unnoticed by everyone because nobody was remotely on par with him, began to soar exponentially due to an upsurge of emotions like none he has ever experienced.

How anyone could read this and conclude that Saitama only now started to grow in power where he wasn't growing before is beyond me. This monologue is clearly stating that Saitama's upsurge of emotions was causing the growth rate he already had to increase, not that it allowed him to grow while he previously couldn't.
So what do we do with this information? For starters, we should put the audiobook statement back in Saitama's profile. The Wiki already used audiobook statements to scale mid-training Saitama to Tatsumaki (which he wouldn't be even close to if we went purely by the manga) and other profiles like Superalloy Darkshine and Genos use the same audiobook that Saitama's growth statement comes from. Maybe after that we could get rid of the stuff about scaling Boros to Orochi via normal punches and possibly buff Orochi in general since he fought a stronger Saitama, but I'd rather not even go there until after we're done with the much more basic and hopefully uncontroversial step of updating Saitama's profile. The logical implications it has on other characters are a topic for another day. Thank you.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Don't know much about One Punch Man, but what was said makes sense, and I don't see any harm in adding the audiobook stuff to his current reasoning, especially if they were made by ONE.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Sounds like a plan, I agree.

 

[ArachDusa]

Bump.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It seems fine to consider he does grow much stronger without himself noticing, but it's still hard to grasp the exact amount of how much stronger he grows. And for all we know, he might have been much weaker when he curb stomped Boros than he was when he fought Garou. Which could open doors for making new keys.

 

[Damage3245]

Would need to see more specific proposals for what we would change on the profiles, and to what.

 

[ArachDusa]

It seems fine to consider he does grow much stronger without himself noticing, but it's still hard to grasp the exact amount of how much stronger he grows. And for all we know, he might have been much weaker when he curb stomped Boros than he was when he fought Garou. Which could open doors for making new keys.

At least enough to casually oneshot the full power of his previous self every day. It's not exactly quantifiable, which is why I'm only saying we should add the audiobook statement to his profile under his "Accelerated Development" ability.

Would need to see more specific proposals for what we would change on the profiles, and to what.

For Saitama's profile, at least for now, just add the audiobook statement. After that, probably remove all the parts in Boros' profile that scale him to Orochi based on him surviving Saitama's normal punches since the normal punches he used against Orochi were more than likely far stronger than the punches he landed on Boros just by virtue of Saitama himself being many times more powerful. And maybe after that we could give Orochi an upgrade since he survived attacks from a stronger Saitama than the one who fought Boros (including a serious attack, at that). But first things first, we should just add the audiobook statement to Saitama's profile.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

This looks pretty interesting I didn't even know about this audiobook, but then again I can't know everything (haha) but anyway I agree on using the audiobook stuff for Saitama in this case (Since we did use them for others in OPM).

 

[Phoenks]

I originally planned to add this audiobook scan to Saitama's profile. However, for reasons I can't remember, either it was removed from the CRT, or someone made a CRT to remove it.

Anyway, I agree with adding that as reasoning to his AD.

 

[Second22]

It means should we still scale Saitama to 4-A, possibly 3-C until before fighting Cosmic Garou? since he just demonstrated strength during the fight with Cosmic Garou prior to that he was considered weaker than that time.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

It means should we still scale Saitama to 4-A, possibly 3-C until before fighting Cosmic Garou? since he just demonstrated strength during the fight with Cosmic Garou prior to that he was considered weaker than that time.

Yes, this is what I was wondering. Would this require us to include "At least High 6-A, up to 4-A, possibly 3-C" for the saitama key Post-Balding?

 

[Worthless]

At least enough to casually oneshot the full power of his previous self every day. It's not exactly quantifiable, which is why I'm only saying we should add the audiobook statement to his profile under his "Accelerated Development" ability.

For Saitama's profile, at least for now, just add the audiobook statement. After that, probably remove all the parts in Boros' profile that scale him to Orochi based on him surviving Saitama's normal punches since the normal punches he used against Orochi were more than likely far stronger than the punches he landed on Boros just by virtue of Saitama himself being many times more powerful. And maybe after that we could give Orochi an upgrade since he survived attacks from a stronger Saitama than the one who fought Boros (including a serious attack, at that). But first things first, we should just add the audiobook statement to Saitama's profile.

 

[Worthless]

I agree with the AD though. You can probably use Saitama's statement "Can the you from tomorrow beat the you from today" to further justify the argument that he gets stronger every day. However, the argument that Saitama used a greater amount of strength behind the attacks he used against Orochi than the attacks he used against Boros is a stupid take, as Saitama's punches don't have a consistent strength and vary depending on his opponent.

And don't get me started on the amount of problems this would create if we accept that premise. Human Garou, Rover, and the others surviving a normal punch from Saitama, and likely more instances to come.. Saitama doesn't need to add the power-up he received into his attacks as he is already strong enough to one-shot them. To suggest that Orochi is more significant than Boros just because he fought a stronger Saitama is a low-brain take. By that logic, you could argue that Flashy Flash is stronger than Boros, given that he faced a stronger version of Saitama. Besides, I don't recall Orochi tanking any attacks from Saitama in the redrawn version.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

I mean Orochi did survive a punch from Saitama in the redrawn one and fought him. He was noted to be one of the few people who survived a punch from him.

Orochi confirmed to have at least survived his punch in the battle

Orochi

(Also I may be an idiot but I for some reason forgot how to post an image sorry)

 

[Damage3245]

Surviving an attack does not mean scaling to it.

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

(Edit: Ignore this comment realised I got something wrong since worthless said tanking)

 

[Golden_Void]

(Multiplier considered to be a one-shot ^ days between the Boros and Garou fight) * the highest output in the Boros fight = .

But a vague statement that can't be quantified by any means, sure.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

(Multiplier considered to be a one-shot ^ days between the Boros and Garou fight) * the highest output in the Boros fight = .

But a vague statement that can't be quantified by any means, sure.

One shot requires at least 7.5 times more AP than durability. We can find out the duration from Genos' words, which states that he has been Saitama's student for over two months now. Therefore, we may interpret the time period between Saitama and Boros and Saitama and Garou as 2 months (60 days). Saitama's serious punches used to finish Boros had energy. 1.0553756e+28 J

(7.5^60)×(1.0553756e+28) = 3.3657577e+80 J (Multi-Galaxy level) Congratulations Saitama 3-B

 

[Phsccarvalho]

One shot requires at least 7.5 times more AP than durability.

This value is only for vs threads, so it cannot be used in any calculation about Saitama's AD or anything like that.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

This value is only for vs threads, so it cannot be used in any calculation about Saitama's AD or anything like that.

Of course I wasn't expecting 3-B Saitama for this reason hahaha.

 

[ArachDusa]

I agree with the AD though. You can probably use Saitama's statement "Can the you from tomorrow beat the you from today" to further justify the argument that he gets stronger every day. However, the argument that Saitama used a greater amount of strength behind the attacks he used against Orochi than the attacks he used against Boros is a stupid take, as Saitama's punches don't have a consistent strength and vary depending on his opponent.

And don't get me started on the amount of problems this would create if we accept that premise. Human Garou, Rover, and the others surviving a normal punch from Saitama, and likely more instances to come.. Saitama doesn't need to add the power-up he received into his attacks as he is already strong enough to one-shot them. To suggest that Orochi is more significant than Boros just because he fought a stronger Saitama is a low-brain take. By that logic, you could argue that Flashy Flash is stronger than Boros, given that he faced a stronger version of Saitama. Besides, I don't recall Orochi tanking any attacks from Saitama in the redrawn version.

Most of what you said it true. I never intended to say we should scale Orochi above Boros based on him surviving normal punches. What I did say was that the Wiki already does that in reverse. Boros' page scales both his AP and his durability to Orochi based on him matching normal punches from Saitama, and my main point is that these parts of his profile should be removed not only for the reasons you mentioned, but also because Saitama got massively stronger between his fight with Boros and with Orochi, so scaling Boros above Orochi using normal punches (which the Wiki is already doing) makes even less sense than doing the opposite.

 

[Golden_Void]

Bumping this cause I almost made a duplicate thread.

I disagree with using the VGS thing as evidence because that implies that anybody in the verse has a definitive grasp of exactly how powerful Saitama is. He himself doesn't know. To everybody else, he's just some degree of "limitless" that can be correct to their eyes but exponentially incorrect in reality.

That said, his growth going unnoticed means he was so far beyond everyone else that they wouldn't have noticed how much stronger he got anyway. Saitama went from barely putting a hole in a hill with sheer air pressure against Genos to meteor busting to splitting a surface-wiping ki blast. According to the timeline of events, that's at least 13 days between the first feat and last feat. The exponential chart was based on a timeframe within Saitama and Garou's MFTL+ fight - so fractions of a second, not entire days. I think that should be taken into consideration as well.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Saitama went from barely putting a hole in a hill with sheer air pressure against Genos to meteor busting to splitting a surface-wiping ki blast.

That doesn't work with the High 6-A and MA scaling on the profile though. Since it means Saitama would have had an entire year to six months before the series to grow in power.

While he does get strong day by day putting a fixed amount to it isn't possible in my view.

 

[Golden_Void]

That doesn't work with the High 6-A and MA scaling on the profile though. Since it means Saitama would have had an entire year to six months before the series to grow in power.

While he does get strong day by day putting a fixed amount to it isn't possible in my view.

I'm not suggesting a fixed amount at all, I'm saying his direct feats go up successively in each arc and with the statement that he is always getting stronger but nobody is near his power to measure his growth, the Saitama from an arc ago would get destroyed by the current Saitama. Especially when he's capable of experiencing exponential growth in sub-second timeframes with an emotional factor.

 

[Worthless]

His Accelerated Development should be passive, and it's likely true that today's Saitama would beat yesterday's Saitama. There are several scans pointing to this, that it's silly to ignore them.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Since he can one shot his yesterday self

Wouldn't that make him at least 8x stronger than before? If we use the standard for one shots of this wiki that is, Not sure if we can apply it here though

 

[Golden_Void]

Idk about that, but our scaling is worded in a way that compares his past opponents to his later opponents.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I see

 

[Vzearr]

Since he can one shot his yesterday self

Wouldn't that make him at least 8x stronger than before? If we use the standard for one shots of this wiki that is, Not sure if we can apply it here though

That one shot multiplier isn't applied to character profiles, its only used in vsbattles to determine whether or not a fight is a stomp.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That one shot multiplier isn't applied to character profiles, its only used in vsbattles to determine whether or not a fight is a stomp.

I see

 

[Qawsedf234]

Idk about that, but our scaling is worded in a way that compares his past opponents to his later opponents.

Saitama when talking to King said that he couldn't get any stronger. While there was still growth day to day, I don't think Saitama on Day 22 against Boros was like eight tiers higher than Saitama on Day 63 against Garou.

 

[Golden_Void]

Saitama when talking to King said that he couldn't get any stronger. While there was still growth day to day, I don't think Saitama on Day 22 against Boros was like eight tiers higher than Saitama on Day 63 against Garou.

That statement still lines up perfectly with the exponential growth statement. Getting stronger at his level is imperceptible when a measuring stick for your power doesn't exist. That, and training even after he broke his limiter contradicts him reaching a limit after breaking his limiter.

Also, the exponential graph was a flat line until Saitama and Garou started brawling on IO. Before Garou killed Genos, Saitama was still matching him with normal blows, and Garou was capable of a GRB at the time. He was already Tier-4 strong before his rage boost.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also, the exponential graph was a flat line until Saitama and Garou started brawling on IO. Before Garou killed Genos, Saitama was still matching him with normal blows, and Garou was capable of a GRB at the time. He was already Tier-4 strong before his rage boost.

I wasn't saying Saitama wasn't Tier 4 though. I was saying that I don't see Saitama against Boros as being just High 6-A and Saitama against Garou being 4-A. He was probably 4-A the entire time for those two instances.

 

[Golden_Void]

I wasn't saying Saitama wasn't Tier 4 though. I was saying that I don't see Saitama against Boros as being just High 6-A and Saitama against Garou being 4-A. He was probably 4-A the entire time for those two instances.

Tier 4 verse upgrade?
Well he definitely didn't liquify Garou who out-stats Boros, but obliterated Orochi, all using normal punches. Which happened within the same day canonically. So Saitama was stronger against Garou than Boros by feats, but we treat Orochi as if he was still getting the same level of punches Saitama used on Boros.