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If that's the case then we have to look at other things, wasn't he compared to Krillin or Tien in the Buu Saga at one point.
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Saitama vs Yamcha
- Thread starter FateAlbane
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- Status
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He has always been compared to Tien and Krillin. They trained, fought and became stronger together and were pretty much equal all around with Tien having the edge on both.
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No I mean ACTUALLY compared, something that implies Yamcha could hold his own.
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Not that I remember it, no. King Kai said that they were the next best thing after Goku and Vegeta or something like that. But he has often become stronger/weaker than Krillin along the years. He was weaker on the 21st, stronger on the 22nd, around even on the 23rd... And so on.
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Can ya provide some evidence of him being comparable to Krillin or Tien post Namek, if so that would put Yamcha quite a bit above baseline planet.
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Other than the lowend scaling already putting him quite a mile above it? I could probably find some statements if I were to read the manga again. I'LL BE BACK.
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Yah look for some statements, if ya find any solid ones ya could even maybe upgrade Yamcha a small bit.
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This is just another fight where Saitama loses due to having little skill and abilities outside of brute force and speed. I don't know anything about Yamcha but it seems like they have this in the bag. Simply by skill and much more in the ways of abilities
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While Yamcha has way more versatility, there's the fact of AP and dura, if Yamcha is only baseline he can't really hurt Saitama who can punch out a baseline planet buster attack and considering his arm didnt break ir anything, his dura is above that. If Yamcha is indeed comparable to Krillin or Tien that changes things though.
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Like I said before, lowend scaling makes Yamcha stronger than him. Highend scaling makes him quite above that. Long ago, I had a brazilian group of friends that constantly debated about power levels of DB and such and there were strong arguments for the humans being above Freeza. And honestly? They had their reasons and had really good arguments.
But that matters little, I'll get a scan that settles this (or similar).
But that matters little, I'll get a scan that settles this (or similar).
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My friends: I found... nothing. I read through the manga again and they rarely mention things such as power.
Most characters actually praise Yamcha's power (Gero: "He is a good source of power", "With his power I am [...]" yadda yadda). Also, Piccolo constantly mentioned that if they were weak, they should leave and all humans agreed to stay believing to be useful against the androids they KNEW were stronger than Freeza.
However, all DBZ power level lists keep them close and in official media (anime, cards, movie pamphlets...) they are constantly shown as comparable. But it shouldnt matter, because (third time's a charm) Yamcha's minimum is already above baseline planet busting.
Most characters actually praise Yamcha's power (Gero: "He is a good source of power", "With his power I am [...]" yadda yadda). Also, Piccolo constantly mentioned that if they were weak, they should leave and all humans agreed to stay believing to be useful against the androids they KNEW were stronger than Freeza.
However, all DBZ power level lists keep them close and in official media (anime, cards, movie pamphlets...) they are constantly shown as comparable. But it shouldnt matter, because (third time's a charm) Yamcha's minimum is already above baseline planet busting.
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Yes but so is Saitama, the problem is how much Yamcha is above it, if he's even on par with Krillin in Android that would be good enough. Like if we use non manga stuff Yamcha is 4-B which isn't the case here. On a side note did ya check the Buu Saga tournament?
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Yes, I did. There is, once again, no mention about Yamcha's power in relation to Krillin's. When Krillin's daughter was worried, Yamcha cheers her up by saying her dad is the strongest amongst humans (which is a statement many fought against in discussions due to Tien and the main argument being that Yamcha is just cheering Krillin's daughter and nothing else).
Dont forget that Yamcha has techniques that increase his AP. Kamehameha is x2.22 according to official power levels and if I read somewhere that Sokidan is also above the Kamehameha. So if his ki is JUST 30.000 (which is 10k short of being able to bust a planet with no ki attack), he can do more than double it.
Dont forget that Yamcha has techniques that increase his AP. Kamehameha is x2.22 according to official power levels and if I read somewhere that Sokidan is also above the Kamehameha. So if his ki is JUST 30.000 (which is 10k short of being able to bust a planet with no ki attack), he can do more than double it.
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Okay so basically what has just happened, is that I proved you cannot scale Yamcha to Sayian Saga Goku ("The data does not match") and you're still insisting that Yamcha be at minimum, baseline planet level even after failing to find any evidence which would scale him to the likes of Krillin, Tien or whoever is on a similar level.
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Basically, whats happening is that even if he is cannot be scaled to Saiyan Saga Goku, that matters little since by a low end scaling, official media, general opinion and by logic, he is still above baseline planet level (and even if he wasnt, actually, like I mentioned before, his attacks multiply his ki according to the manga itself durnig the battle against Raditz). There is nothing to relate Yamcha to Tien just as there's nothing to relate Piccolo to Trunks, Android 19 to 20 and so on.
Saitama's power: Unquantifiably above 53.5372848948 zettatons
Even if we assume Yamcha's power is half of baseline planet level, he would still bypass that by his ki attacks. And he is confirmed to be baseline planet level already through pure Saiyan Saga scaling by Raditz. Give him some training in 10x gravity, 3 years plus of training and there's no way Yamcha is any weaker than Saitama. Saitama is, obviously, stronger than baseline planet level by a unknown amount, but considering how strong Yamcha already was and how much he trained AFTER that, he should be stronger than Saitama.
Saitama's power: Unquantifiably above 53.5372848948 zettatons
Even if we assume Yamcha's power is half of baseline planet level, he would still bypass that by his ki attacks. And he is confirmed to be baseline planet level already through pure Saiyan Saga scaling by Raditz. Give him some training in 10x gravity, 3 years plus of training and there's no way Yamcha is any weaker than Saitama. Saitama is, obviously, stronger than baseline planet level by a unknown amount, but considering how strong Yamcha already was and how much he trained AFTER that, he should be stronger than Saitama.
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"that matters little since by a low end scaling, official media, general opinion and by logic, he is still above baseline planet level"
How is that the case when Yamcha cannot be scaled to Goku anymore. But rather the Saibamen, who are small planet level (the actual energy yield being 8 times lower than baseline planet level). You would need serious evidence to prove Yamcha gets eight times stronger from the time he fought the Saibamen, to when he was scanned by Gero.
How is that the case when Yamcha cannot be scaled to Goku anymore. But rather the Saibamen, who are small planet level (the actual energy yield being 8 times lower than baseline planet level). You would need serious evidence to prove Yamcha gets eight times stronger from the time he fought the Saibamen, to when he was scanned by Gero.
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Well, have some DBZ powerups for ya:
Yamcha: 177 > 1480. He trained for one year with Kami and got EXACTLY eight times stronger. Also, remember that in King Kai's place has 10x the gravity of Earth so its a way more efficient mean of training. Due to the fact they got there stronger, they also should get a stronger upgrade than Goku.
Yamcha did it before, and from all the means possible, he should be able to do MORE than that after training at King Kai's AND another 3 year training session.
Yamcha: 177 > 1480. He trained for one year with Kami and got EXACTLY eight times stronger. Also, remember that in King Kai's place has 10x the gravity of Earth so its a way more efficient mean of training. Due to the fact they got there stronger, they also should get a stronger upgrade than Goku.
Yamcha did it before, and from all the means possible, he should be able to do MORE than that after training at King Kai's AND another 3 year training session.
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"and got EXACTLY eight times stronger"
Going to need a source for that.
Going to need a source for that.
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Actually, him training with King Kai and having no trouble should imply he's at least as strong as base Saiyan Saga Goku if we look at it in context. But then again 10x gravity means nothing outside of context.
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Means that the weight of everything is 10x, every move is 10x what you are going to do on Earth. Results increased by 10 folds.
Also, Austrian, he was a 177 and became a 1480. Its not EXACTLY Eight times stronger, but eh, 8.3 aint that bad, is it? And these power levels were mentioned in Guidebooks (Daizenshuu 7, in fact. 177 is from the manga).
Edit: Also remember that Goku went from 260 to around 300 after training with the same guys for three times the amount of time Yamcha did, so we could expect better results.
Also, Austrian, he was a 177 and became a 1480. Its not EXACTLY Eight times stronger, but eh, 8.3 aint that bad, is it? And these power levels were mentioned in Guidebooks (Daizenshuu 7, in fact. 177 is from the manga).
Edit: Also remember that Goku went from 260 to around 300 after training with the same guys for three times the amount of time Yamcha did, so we could expect better results.
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"Also, Austrian, he was a 177 and became a 1480. Its not EXACTLY Eight times stronger, but eh, 8.3 aint that bad, is it?"
The X increase is unpredictable, you can have a powerlevel of about 260 and be able to raze continents while also having characters with a powerlevel of 408 being able to cause small planet level feats. So basically if I was at five and you were at thirty it would mean that you surpass me but by how much is completely unknown, it can be anywhere from 1000x to 0.5x.
The X increase is unpredictable, you can have a powerlevel of about 260 and be able to raze continents while also having characters with a powerlevel of 408 being able to cause small planet level feats. So basically if I was at five and you were at thirty it would mean that you surpass me but by how much is completely unknown, it can be anywhere from 1000x to 0.5x.
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This. An increase in power by x times doesn't mean x times more destruction possible. Eg if a firecracker can blow up a cement block, and you got a firecracker 10 times stronger, it doesn't warrant being able to blow up 10 cement blocks. It's not a linear increase. You can just as well make a verse in which power level 0.0005 is capable of destroying a building, and power level 3 billion is capable of destroying a building and maybe a garage too.Austrian-Man-Meat said:
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Again, the scale is not linear. Eg, 9B to 9A is a tiny difference. 6A to High 6A is a MASSIVE difference. The power level graph for each tier is not increasing like a straight line, more like a parabola. The higher the tier the faster the power ceiling increases.Hizack123 said:
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I wouldn't call 1000-4000x a small gap..
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That's minimal 9B compared to 9A tho. And you know what I mean, I'm talking about a general scale (as in physical).
Anyways, that proves my point, it's 1000x more powerful maybe, but the scale can be miniscule. So Yamcha may have powered up 50 billion times for all I care, but 5000000000*0 is still 0 (/s). You get the point tho.
Anyways, that proves my point, it's 1000x more powerful maybe, but the scale can be miniscule. So Yamcha may have powered up 50 billion times for all I care, but 5000000000*0 is still 0 (/s). You get the point tho.
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My only concern is that Saitama has actual feats that prove his capabilities, unlike Yamcha who's strength/durability is estimated through scaling and assumptions.
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It isn't linear, but we do have official power levels to scale. Roshi destroyed the moon with a Kamehameha Wave at 180 ki (the KMHMH was 400). Vegeta with 18000 could destroy a planet with the Galick Ho which sits at higher than 53000 due to being stronger than Goku's Kamehameha x3 but weaker than 4. Freeza in his first form while suppressed destroyed planets with a finger with a power level lower than 530.000 (his 1st form). So no, he couldn't have powered up a billion times and be "planet level +++" (SethTheProgrammer reference just because). There is basic scaling that would put him quite a mile ahead.
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Roshi moon buster is a outlier
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Except Piccolo busted it with a casual ki blast with a power level nearly 2 times his. Mind you, KMHMH is also a 2.22 multiplier according to Raditz. Hmm.. Why would someone with nearly the same power as the Roshis moon feat casually bust the moon?
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Because a stronger character only did city level damage and if you go to Outlier and Inconsistency is a example
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Stronger character also mentioned being able to destroy fractions of the planet and was going to do so once per year. The inconsistency isn't Roshi. Its Piccolo. And even then, he should be comparable to Goku that one shot Drum, that beat the shit outta Tieb who according to Roshi himself, was his superior.
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It was already accepted as a outlier and it's very likely that the staff don't want to argue morre about it
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Even though I'm pretty sure it's been touched on in guidebooks such as V-Jump and the Daizenshuus? And that it is generally accepted and has been debated in favor again and again in Kanzenshuu? Aight.
Also, I found a King Kai quote. He says that if Goku and Vegeta are to die, that they should send Yamcha and Krillin since they are the next best thing. I'd provide the source, but I'm on my cellphone. I'll get it later.
Also, I found a King Kai quote. He says that if Goku and Vegeta are to die, that they should send Yamcha and Krillin since they are the next best thing. I'd provide the source, but I'm on my cellphone. I'll get it later.
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Master roshi and Piccolo is differrent story, Master Roshi here is in the DB arc and even top tier like Demon king Piccolo can only Do a Country level feat at his best.
On the other hand, Piccolo in the Saiyan Saga Show show to keep up with and can fight raditz (small planet level) alone with Goku.
On the other hand, Piccolo in the Saiyan Saga Show show to keep up with and can fight raditz (small planet level) alone with Goku.
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I disagree, but I have no time to deal with this. I can create a revision thread later if I wish..
The minimum required to blow a planet would STILL be around 400 due to Piccolo doing so casually at Early Saiyan Saga with a regular ki blast. So the point stands.
The minimum required to blow a planet would STILL be around 400 due to Piccolo doing so casually at Early Saiyan Saga with a regular ki blast. So the point stands.
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Yamcha can't survive in the vacuum of space, and is both quite cocky and arrogant which Word of God states led to his death during the battle with the Saiyans.
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He has been shown to be uncarefuly cocky only once. In ALL others situations, he never showed any of these signs. And even then, anyone would've died in his place. It wasn't necessarily arrogance, but letting his guard down. The Saibaman couldn't even be sensed by the likes of Piccolo and his explosion would've killed anyn one of them.
Not surviving in the vacuum of space is truly a weakness, but he isn't going to be weak and uncareful enough to be hit there. Remember that Yamcha was the same guy that defeated Oozaru Goku, someone LEAGUES above his own by quickthinking and improvisation. Yamcha should NEVER be understimated.
inb4 Yamcha has a great will to live so he wins through Red Stone of Aja. lol
Not surviving in the vacuum of space is truly a weakness, but he isn't going to be weak and uncareful enough to be hit there. Remember that Yamcha was the same guy that defeated Oozaru Goku, someone LEAGUES above his own by quickthinking and improvisation. Yamcha should NEVER be understimated.
inb4 Yamcha has a great will to live so he wins through Red Stone of Aja. lol
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I'm going for Saitama as Yamcha has ZERO speed feats that put him ANYWHERE NEAR sub-realtivistic.
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Saitama at best is Solar System level. Can Yamcha destroy a Solar System?
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