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Saitama Limited Power Negation

Golden_Void

Golden_Void

VS Battles
Retired
7,099
2,114
He one-shot Evil Natural/Ocean Water, who could not retain her former size even though she was obliterated within the ocean. Multiple scenes from other characters obliterating her show her recovering near instantly.

So, I propose limited power negation.

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Isn’t ENW’s regeneration pretty unconventional though? It’s not like it’s repairing actual damage it just reforms itself since it’s a mass of water

I’m not in disagreement really I just wonder if the same thing would happen to an actual being who can regenerate their body and organs and all that
 
Golden_Void said:
This plus you can't physically destroy water. That's like trying to kill an air monster by punching the air. The molecules would need to be separated for the entire volume of the mass to be "destroyed", which isn't the case here.
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I meant to ask if Destroying water molecules was possible with a DC/AP feat alone and not necessary regeneration negation. (I am not an OPM scaler or anything just curious)
 
Damage3245 said:
Evil Natural Water did not die from the punch.
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I was just about to comment on that. It should still qualify for "limited" since EOW could no longer retain its ocean size and was reduced by >99% of its original form despite "dying" in the ocean.

Pig God gets the full ability, I guess? Or is that limited, too? Technically, though, I don't see what would stop Saitama from replicating the feat since ENW would not be capable of piercing his internals, unlike Pig God.
 
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ssgengar said:
Isn’t ENW’s regeneration pretty unconventional though? It’s not like it’s repairing actual damage it just reforms itself since it’s a mass of water

I’m not in disagreement really I just wonder if the same thing would happen to an actual being who can regenerate their body and organs and all that
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I don't watch One Piece but I assume it would be how they kill Logias. For a non-elemental, Saitama would simply have to overpower the strength of their molecular/atomic/etc bonds.
 
I don't see why this is regeneration negation for Saitama and not just a weakness for ENW instead.

The monster was dispersed so much that it lost the majority of its water. ENW doesn't "regenerate" by creating water out of nothing to grow. When dispersed it can pull itself back together, but this looks like a case that Saitama dispersed it so much that it couldn't go back to ocean size without going back into the ocean again.

Occam's Razor and all that. It's far simpler to say ENW just has a limit to how far it can be dispersed and pull itself back together, than saying Saitama has very specific and limited Regeneration Negation against living water. Since we know he doesn't negate any other type of regeneration at all.
 
Golden_Void said:
I was just about to comment on that. It should still qualify for "limited" since EOW could no longer retain its ocean size and was reduced by >99% of its original form despite "dying" in the ocean.

Pig God gets the full ability, I guess? Or is that limited, too? Technically, though, I don't see what would stop Saitama from replicating the feat since ENW would not be capable of piercing his internals, unlike Pig God.
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Reducing Evil Natural Water's size is not negating its regeneration.

Pig God didn't negate Evil Natural Water's regeneration either; he just dissolved it in his stomach acid.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I don't see why this is regeneration negation for Saitama and not just a weakness for ENW instead.

The monster was dispersed so much that it lost the majority of its water. ENW doesn't "regenerate" by creating water out of nothing to grow. When dispersed it can pull itself back together, but this looks like a case that Saitama dispersed it so much that it couldn't go back to ocean size without going back into the ocean again.

Occam's Razor and all that. It's far simpler to say ENW just has a limit to how far it can be dispersed and pull itself back together, than saying Saitama has very specific and limited Regeneration Negation against living water. Since we know he doesn't negate any other type of regeneration at all.
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Damage3245 said:
Reducing Evil Natural Water's size is not negating its regeneration.

Pig God didn't negate Evil Natural Water's regeneration either; he just dissolved it in his stomach acid.
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Again, ENW died/dispersed/whatever in the ocean. The claim that a handful of water miraculously made it to shore from an entire ocean, and that same handful of water happened to be ENW out of the quintillions of tons in the ocean (clear ability loss here), requires more evidence.

Also, ENW possesses more volume than its appearance, as shown by the numerous water jets coming out of Pig God before digestion. It doesn't have a brain or nerves to justify that some critical components escaped obliteration by Saitama since its entire volume is its body. In fact, given the attention to its eyes in the ocean scenes, I'm willing to believe its eyes are tied to its existence, though it still does not have an excuse for being that small while floating around in the ocean.

At the end of the day, it had a reduced capacity to operate at regular levels after being obliterated in the ocean. Also, water isn't digested; it is absorbed into the bloodstream or excreted as excess.

Rez said:
Agreed with damage and rusty, also anti feats for regen negation exists in form of Boros.
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But did Boros get back up
 
Damage3245 said:
Right next to the shore from what I'm seeing in that scan. So the fragment of surviving ENW doesn't need to have travelled a whole ocean's distance.
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In the two scans directly following that, you can see enough water to lift up an aircraft carrier and ENW's eyeball literally on land, so there was more than enough water present for her not to end up the size she did. Again, this is even with assuming that her eyes are tied to her form, which seems to be the case.

We can call it limited power null if regen neg is the issue.
 
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Golden_Void said:
In the two scans directly following that, you can see enough water to lift up an aircraft carrier and ENW's eyeball literally on land, so there was more than enough water present for her not to end up the size she did. Again, this is even with assuming that her eyes are tied to her form, which seems to be the case.

We can call it limited power null if regen neg is the issue.
Click to expand...
We can't because no power was nullified here.
 
Golden_Void said:
So the ability for her eyes to be massively reduced in size and only be able to hold < 1% of her original mass while still being connected to the source is just a normal thing in your head?
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We don't see Evil Natural Water being connected to other water after being dispersed.

The next time we see Evil Natural Water they're emerging from some rubble on dry land.
 
Damage3245 said:
We don't see Evil Natural Water being connected to other water after being dispersed.

The next time we see Evil Natural Water they're emerging from some rubble on dry land.
Click to expand...
If we draw logical conclusions, we've never seen ENW as just water since the eyeballs are always present. In this scan, I show ENW's eyeball washing up on shore in the middle of an actual tsunami.

But ENW isn't connected to any other water after being dispersed.

So, in your scenario, since ENW wasn't connected to any water after being dispersed, it just managed to form a new body from nothing? Unless your conclusion begins the moment the water washes away and just the eyeball is left, in which case we've long passed moving the goalposts.

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Golden_Void said:
If we draw logical conclusions, we've never seen ENW as just water since the eyeballs are always present. In this scan, I show ENW's eyeball washing up on shore in the middle of an actual tsunami.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the top panel? That's not an eyeball; that's Pig God.


Golden_Void said:
But ENW isn't connected to any other water after being dispersed.

So, in your scenario, since ENW wasn't connected to any water after being dispersed, it just managed to form a new body from nothing? Unless your conclusion begins the moment the water washes away and just the eyeball is left, in which case we've long passed moving the goalposts.
Click to expand...
I didn't say ENW reformed from nothing; just that it wasn't connected to the ocean any longer.
 
ENW could have also not have the energy to reform after taking so much damage as it would essentially lose all the energy dispersed in its body after being disconnected from it
 
I'm with Damage and Rusty, it's much more easier to assume the blow dispersed it so much it couldn't reform completely, the eyeballs are also wonky because they change in size and we don't even know if they are a weak spot, a brain or else.

The whole thing might not check out completely on a logical sense, but this isn't science and Murata/One clearly didn't mean to display an accurate portrayal of how their supernatural monster is meant to function in a realistic fashion. We see it being giant, a big blast scatters it and only a puddle slithers away, it's probably due to the little part of its consciousness kept in whatever that managed to only pull out that little amount of water. I'm also generally against forms of Powernull, Regen null etc. that aren't clearly supported by statements or hard evidence, because more times than not they are oversights by the author for simplicity's sake or just forgetfulness.
 
Gonna make my response simple, so we don't all end up writing books.

ENW was dispersed in the ocean. Nobody can disprove this fact. It is stated not to possess a brain or nerves, making it water with disembodied consciousness. Therefore, it couldn't be "knocked out" (which, even if it were, is still an ability for Saitama.) This scan is almost definitive proof that the eyes control the water since the water that was a part of ENW was not conscious inside of Tatsumaki's TK ball. So there's no justification for the eyeballs being connected to the literal ocean, but ending up a small puddle.

After Garou obliterated her, she trickled off into the ocean and very quickly became Evil Ocean Water. Before that, Atomic Samurai also shredded her, and she reformed nearly instantly. Those scans also show her eyes can control water immediately around her without being inside of it, and this scan shows her eyes are also liquid. Atomic Samurai confirms there is no central component that controls her or is critical to her existence. Comparatively, Saitama only parted her down the middle while she was still in the ocean.

Drawing the line for suspension of disbelief here is odd, considering Saitama has resistance to immense cosmic radiation, can grab hyperspace portals, and can manipulate subatomic particles, all as abilities stemming from him doing a basic fitness routine for years.

DavidTPPM said:
ENW could have also not have the energy to reform after taking so much damage as it would essentially lose all the energy dispersed in its body after being disconnected from it
Click to expand...
Diffusion doesn't require energy. Water doesn't take physical damage.
 
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Golden_Void said:
Also:
Click to expand...
In case you're posting that in favor of Saitama's regeneration negation; that's not regeneration negation. Boros just ran out of energy to keep healing himself.


And, I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing anything in the scans you posted further up supporting Saitama negating Evil Natural Water's regeneration.
 
Since you all love comparing characters from the first 40 chapters to a current state character, show me chapter 1 Saitama manipulating electron spin. I'll wait.

Damage3245 said:
In case you're posting that in favor of Saitama's regeneration negation; that's not regeneration negation. Boros just ran out of energy to keep healing himself.


And, I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing anything in the scans you posted further up supporting Saitama negating Evil Natural Water's regeneration.
Click to expand...
I said I could change it to limited power nullification if "regeneration" is the issue since that power technically no longer exists. You're being intentionally obtuse. If you can't see the difference from Saitama obliterating her compared to every other person doing it, that isn't an issue with the argument. That's a you thing. Your only counterargument this entire time was "ENW wasn't connected to water," which you haven't provided a shred of evidence for because it doesn't exist.
 
Golden_Void said:
I said I could change it to limited power nullification if "regeneration" is the issue since that power technically no longer exists. You're being intentionally obtuse. If you can't see the difference from Saitama obliterating her compared to every other person doing it, that isn't an issue with the argument. That's a you thing. Your only counterargument this entire time was "ENW wasn't connected to water," which you haven't provided a shred of evidence for because it doesn't exist.
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The fact that we see ENW emerging from rubble on dry land? Why wouldn't we have seen ENW re-emerging from the ocean if your argument is that ENW never left the ocean?
 
Damage3245 said:
The fact that we see ENW emerging from rubble on dry land? Why wouldn't we have seen ENW re-emerging from the ocean if your argument is that ENW never left the ocean?
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And again, ENW was obliterated in the ocean. The scans provided earlier from every other time she was obliterated showed near-instant recovery while being over land. So ENW being obliterated in her most beneficial environment somehow takes almost 20 chapters to reappear in a severely weakened form? As I said, Saitama destroying her caused a massive ocean-front tsunami.

So your logic is it is normal that, given the numerous times ENW instantly recovered, taking nearly 20 chapters to reappear in a severely weakened form when we have demonstrated proof of her being able to recover and grow within the same page while still having access to the literal ocean (if not a very large body of water), is fine. Which is also despite another scan showing her achieving a much larger size than her final form through groundwater.
 
To make it simpler, every instance ENW was destroyed, she either recovered instantly or got even bigger. Saitama "killed" her in the ocean, and not only did she not instantly recover, but we don't see her for nearly 20 chapters in a severely nerfed form, despite the previous scans showing her rapid recovery ability.

This is the argument.
 
Golden_Void said:
And again, ENW was obliterated in the ocean. The scans provided earlier from every other time she was obliterated showed near-instant recovery while being over land. So ENW being obliterated in her most beneficial environment somehow takes almost 20 chapters to reappear in a severely weakened form? As I said, Saitama destroying her caused a massive ocean-front tsunami.

So your logic is it is normal that, given the numerous times ENW instantly recovered, taking nearly 20 chapters to reappear in a severely weakened form when we have demonstrated proof of her being able to recover and grow within the same page while still having access to the literal ocean (if not a very large body of water), is fine. Which is also despite another scan showing her achieving a much larger size than her final form through groundwater.
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Yeah.... That just shows how powerful the Serious Punch is.

Not that Saitama has some unstated ability to hamper Evil Natural Water's ability to reform itself.

For all we know the force of Saitama's punch reduced Evil Natural Water's core essence down to just a few molecules of water and it spent the next several hours recovering itself until it was a small blob.

That seems even more likely to me than Saitama using power nullification on it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yeah.... That just shows how powerful the Serious Punch is.
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Water doesn't take physical damage. The result of Saitama's effort was simply spreading her volume over a wide area. It's not like he even vaporized her or anything.
Damage3245 said:
Not that Saitama has some unstated ability to hamper Evil Natural Water's ability to reform itself.

For all we know the force of Saitama's punch reduced Evil Natural Water's core essence down to just a few molecules of water and it spent the next several hours recovering itself until it was a small blob.
Click to expand...
This requires an even larger assumption than what I'm suggesting, especially considering her eyeballs were fully intact, and ENW survived a molecular change in state from liquid to solid.
 
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